#2235782 - 06/03/08 02:13 AM
Guide Gun rude recoil
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Jesse Jaymes
Campfire Regular
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 708
Loc: Back Home in New Mexico
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I am aware that I am opening myself up for a bashing, but I do not care. Just looking for a comparison, and possible answer.
Also aware of basic physics.
I am on my second Marlin Guide Gun. Got one of the very first ones hot off the press, ported, sold it. Had to re-discover why I needed the first one.
In asking this question, I am sure will open the doors on "I cans" and "what ifs" so to speak.
I feel I am blatantly pretty macho. I am still dumb at 36, and think some macho stunts are funny. But I cannot warm up to the recoil of this gun. And the benchmarks I have for comparison are: a 375 RUM that's 9 pounds, a 300 RUM that's 9 pounds, and a 338 that's about 8.65 lbs. I do not have that much of a problem with any of them, and can do about 20 rounds off the bench with the 375 RUM.
I did a handful of 405 Remington bullets loaded what I thought was "moderate". It literally drained snot out of my nose, and delt me the most severe recoil headache I've had. So I put the gun up for a year and played with others. I pulled it out the other day to try and deal a few jackrabbits a case of Crimson Devastation.
I loaded some cheap Midway 300 hollowpoints with about 56 grains of Benchmark. This was a book STARTING load. These loads still managed to get my attention. WTF??? I guess I need to let the hair on my chest grow back in.....
I am asking if others find the Marlin GG obnoxious to shoot ? Does Limbsaver make a direct replacement ?
I have a Cowboy magazine tube that I had intended to fit for a full length magazine, and guess it may add 1/4 pound to the rifle, and maybe some weight to hold the barrel down if the mag is full. But as it stands now, this rifle is on the short list to cull.
Is it just me needing to wear a pad to catch the discharge ?
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#2235838 - 06/03/08 04:43 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: Jesse Jaymes]
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arkypete
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 1880
Loc: Richmond, Virginia
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Jesse
Why not look at the loads for Springfields? Then you can work your way up to 'filling removal'.
With my bolt action 45-70, all summer was spent shooting 255 grain grain cast slugs over 13 grains of Unique, then moved up to 300 grainers with light loads of IMR 3031, then up to 400 grainers and by November I had worked my way up to 445 grainers with a case full of IMR 4064.
For what ever reason I found the recoil from heavy loads of IMR 4895 and IMR 3031 more then what I wanted but IMR 4064 was acceptable.
Jim
_________________________
The average American walks about 900 miles a year.
Another study found that Americans, on average, drink about 22 gallons
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#2235876 - 06/03/08 05:31 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: Jesse Jaymes]
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McInnis
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/20/04
Posts: 563
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
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No, it's not just you. The guide gun really wasn't designed to shoot from the bench. It has a terrific muzzle jump with heavy loads,and that seems to emphasize the recoil.
With mine, shooting 350 grn bullets, I'm OK with 49-50 grns of IMR3031. Move that up to 54 grns and all the fun disappears.
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#2235891 - 06/03/08 05:44 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: arkypete]
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EvilTwin
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 6084
Loc: Upstate NY
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Jesse, consider shooting 2 boxes of factory ammo for a benchmark. 300 grain Winchester and 405 grain Remington. I have the 1895SS and it has some very lively recoil when I go 350 grains and over. They are light rifles and do superb work on big game but the stock design is never going to be as forgiving as your bolt guns. Big bullets in small guns=recoil.
_________________________
Chaos,panic,disorder...My work is done here!!
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#2236039 - 06/03/08 07:58 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: Jesse Jaymes]
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GuyM
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Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 689
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Jesse - yup - the lil' ol' Guide Gun will get a man's attention real quick. Lots of drop to the stock, so a shooter's face gets hammered too. The thing recoils up and back, quickly.
Hah! Try some of those top end loads and you'll swear off the little howitzer forever if you're not ready for 'em. A softer recoil pad is bound to help. I had one of the original ported Guide Guns and eventually swapped it for the standard 22" 1895 model. My standard load is a 350 gr Hornady loaded over 50 gr H4198, for about 2100 fps, depending on the powder lot. This is four grains under the book max according to Hodgdon. I've shot top level 350 & 400/405 grain loads, but they're only fun for a while in a stock gun. Mostly I practice with fairly mild cast bullet loads, and step it up towards hunting season with the real thing.
I don't have an aftermarket recoil pad, but yeah, I'd consider one. Probably the decelerator.
I do have a fixed power scope, a little 2.5x Leupold, which gives me about an extra inch of eyebrow room. That helps. Time to time from prone with the variable power scope mounted I'd get whacked in the forehead.
I shoot the doggone Marlin from primarily from sitting, and standing. Haven't benched it but once or twice. Sitting and standing positions let me give a little with the recoil, instead of sitting there at the bench, getting pounded by it.
The drop at the comb, relatively light weight, relatively hard recoil pad and big bullet weight all make the big bore Marlin a snappy little beast on recoil. It takes a little work & thought to master it.
Regards, Guy
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#2236116 - 06/03/08 08:37 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: GuyM]
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AkMtnHntr
Campfire Guide
Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 4071
Loc: Alaska
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I would definetly change the recoil pad, the stock pad on the GG just plain sucks. Go with a Decelerator pad.
_________________________
Let your gun accompany you on your walks, the heft will do you well and it will ward off evil doers. Thomas Jefferson
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#2236359 - 06/03/08 10:39 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: Jesse Jaymes]
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antlers
Campfire Regular
Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 505
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Hello...noticed your post, and I agree. Even with the 1895 with the longer barrel, and the pistol grip...the recoil still gets your attention...from the bench. I don't really notice it at all when shooting in the field. I shoot the factory Hornady load of 325 gr. at 2060 fps...I can only imagine what the 'heavy stuff' from Garrett or Buffalo Bore would be like. It's expensive...but I'd like to try it sometime.
_________________________
Every hunter should carry a positive attitude. It weighs nothing and can make or break a hunt.
Hunt hard and hunt long.
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#2242614 - 06/06/08 04:54 PM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: Jesse Jaymes]
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CZ550
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Registered: 05/11/08
Posts: 249
Loc: Kawartha Lakes, Ontario, Canad...
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Try this (if you haven't: 1)Don't slump at the bench but sit straight up and elevate your front and rear rests to fit you as though you were shooting offhand. 2)Hold down on the forearm with your left hand (if you shoot from the right side, or if you shoot from the left--like I do--then with your right hand). Don't allow the rifle to "bounce" on the front rest.3)Pull the rifle back tight into your shoulder with your hand that grips the forearm. This, in effect, gives weight to the rifle as your body becomes a part of that weight. Sitting up-straight allows your body to "give" with the recoil.
I've used many Marlins in 45-70 over the past 25 years with heavy loads--having taken several bear with them--and have only been "hurt" by one--the GG. Not it's recoil, but it's porting in hunting. I got rid of it and have gone happily back to the "classic" with 22" barrel. I shoot 405 Remingtons (the traditional one) at 2100 fps and 465-grn hardcast at 1900 fps. I have even written a reloading manual on them, including a Ruger No.1 and NEF. A good, strong 45-70 is fully capable, with the right loads, of cleanly taking any game in the world. Another point: 4) Use good ear protection at the range--plugs + excellent muffs and "recoil" will seem less than thought. Finally, 5)use a good protective pad over the shoulder. I use PAST magnum pad often with a folded towel under it.And finally finally 6)Mine has a BIG scope on top--a 3-9X40--for bear and moose. Where I hunt them it gets very dark in thick forested areas. That too adds weight. Plus, a suggestion I made to a friend with a too light 416 Rem, add an ammo sock to the stock and put in 6 or 7 rounds while shooting from the bench. That will add close to a-half pound
Edited by CZ550 (06/06/08 05:29 PM)
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#2243502 - 06/07/08 06:55 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: CZ550]
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FullMetalParka
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Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 208
Loc: Vermont
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I don't find the guide gun to be bad at all. The worst so far have been the 405 grain buffalo bores. I don't want to shoot a whole box, but 10-12 is just fine.
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#2248683 - 06/10/08 12:15 PM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: FullMetalParka]
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AlabamaEd
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Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 1114
Loc: North Alabama, USA
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I have a Guide Gun in 450 Marlin and find the recoil to be strong but certainly manageable. Worst I ever had for recoil was a marlin in 44 mag. It gave me a bloody nose every time, and then there was the Browning 340 Roy, gave me a headache and blurred my vision after 5-6 rounds. Don't have them anymore, but do like the 450 Marlin in the woods and and for TN pigs.
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#2253919 - 06/13/08 05:26 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: AlabamaEd]
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namibiahunter
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Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 7
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I have a Guide Gun still with the ported barrel. I've put almost a full box of Garretts through it and don't feel it's too bad, recoilwise. Of course I've worn earplugs every time I've shot it and I've never shot it off the bench - always upright and/or on sticks. I also have a Decelerator pad for it - but I haven't put it on yet.
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#2257642 - 06/15/08 01:44 PM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: namibiahunter]
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HOOKER
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 538
Loc: SW Oklahoma
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I have never liked straight grip stocks on hard kicking rifles. Off hand or off the bench they are not comfortable to me. This has kept me from buying a GG.
_________________________
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned.
When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot."
_ Mark Twain
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#2258583 - 06/16/08 07:16 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: HOOKER]
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wahunterinrok
Campfire Regular
Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 268
Loc: Kirkuk, Iraq
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I spent last friday putting about 50 rounds through my guide Gun in 45/70, a mix of bench, standing, kneeling and prone. I was shooting a vatriety of power levels, and was taking breaks, but I never got bothere enough to get the flinches, i find it plenty manageable!
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Clinging to my guns and religon! 
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#2259906 - 06/17/08 01:16 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: wahunterinrok]
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1akhunter
Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 9935
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska a piece down...
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I can deal with the shoulder, it's the middle finger that takes a whacking for me mostly.
have one now that's unported and has a big loop lever, haven't shot it enough to know the diff if any. hoping so
still tis my favorite knockaround gun, though it may stay home this trip due to size and weight and opt for a .30-.30 in trapper mode.
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"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."
some folks that can't make a compelling argument, enjoy pointing out typos, errors of grammar and spelling oversights. I add as many as possible to accomodate.
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#2293871 - 07/05/08 04:00 PM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: 1akhunter]
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goodnews
Campfire Guide
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 4306
Loc: Iowa
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I have another experienced acquaintance who gave up on the GG as too much fun so it's not unusual. I haven't measured anything but as I sit here it seems the LOP is shorter than usual on the GG-you sort of have to scrunch up behind it, the straight pistol grip seems to exacerbate recoil too, and as 1ak mentioned, it dings my middle finger too.
I just had mine out this afternoon along with my Lott which is 9.75 lbs. It's my very fuzzy perception that the 405-gr Buffalo Bores 45-70s were right there with Lott 450-gr TSXs at 2250 fps in the opposite reaction department.
But then 405-gr Laser Casts on top of 30 grs of 5744 at 1325 fps were just a hoot to shoot and would lay low any deer and probably elk too at 100 yds.
Gdv
_________________________
"Content to live and willing to die....Hoping to do a little good." John Adams, amidst the turmoil of his presidency, Christmas Day of 1798, in a letter to his wife, Abigail.
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#2295195 - 07/06/08 03:05 PM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: goodnews]
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300WinMag
Campfire Regular
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 643
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Yes, the GG can be a beast. I've not truly pushed the limits with this rifle nor do I plan to. Last year, I worked up some loads using 405gr LazerCast and 48 grains of IMR 3031. I did this in hopes of getting a "moderate" load, something more tame than the factory Cor-Bon 405gr offering. Riiiiiiight! I could tell no difference from the bench between those two rounds. But, neither is a problem shooting offhand.
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#2295503 - 07/06/08 06:23 PM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: 300WinMag]
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EvilTwin
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 6084
Loc: Upstate NY
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Just an observation,the 1895SS can be right lively to shoot too. However, at least in my stomping grounds, hunting season more often than not, requires a decent hunting coat. Recoil is absorbed very nicely. Shooting for zero off a bench with the GG has to be very entertaining but when the game is in your sight picture, the clothing tends to soak a lot of it up.
_________________________
Chaos,panic,disorder...My work is done here!!
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#2296135 - 07/07/08 07:04 AM
Re: Guide Gun rude recoil
[Re: EvilTwin]
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Mark R Dobrenski
Campfire 'Bwana
Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 13404
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
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I've had two of them, will have another. Both shot very well, and I found both to be a bit cheeky but nothing overly so. I'd be for thinking that a lot of this comes down to how they fit us or don't.
I know that some BB guns (shotguns) are a joy for me and the Red Label pounds the starch out of me...
One thing that amazes me,is I've only found a good used one on the racks.
Dober
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