#2237476 - 06/03/08 08:36 PM
Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
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VarmintGuy
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Registered: 05/22/03
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Along comes an official publication to me, last week, from the Montana Department Of Fish, Wildlife & Parks - the publication is titled "STATE FURBEARER PROGRAM NEWSLETTER". Dated Spring 2,008. Page 2 (two) column 2 (two) details where the "most recent MINIMUM Montana Wolf population" census has gone up 34% (thirty four percent) from the year 2,006 to the year 2,007!!! The newsletter continues - "Despite the increased population during 2,007 102 Wolf mortalities were documented in Montana in 2,007. These included 73 Wolves killed while eating domestic animals, 7 "illegal" kills, 6 vehicle or train strikes, 1 legal harvest in Canada, 7 "incidental" and agency related, 3 natural deaths, 1 incidental snaring and 4 unkown cause deaths! A 34% increase in the Wolf population in Montana IN ONE YEAR should TERRIFY every sport Hunter in every Rocky Mountain state! Especially those in Colorado! I have been Hunting Spring Bear quite a bit of recent, here in SW Montana, and EVERY time I go out I see fresh Wolf tracks and see fresh Wolf sign - much of the Wolf scat I see has Elk hair and Moose hair in it! 34% increase in one year - if I were better at math I could be more exact but it appears the Wolf population is doubling about every 2.4 years! And remembering that each Wolf consumes the "bio-mass equivalent" of 1.8 Elk every month - then one can extrapolate that the Wolves are killing twice as many "Elk bio-masses" every 2.4 years, as they are now. Thats a lot of hard fought for human Hunting oppotunities lost, gone up in Wolf farts! Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
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#2238449 - 06/04/08 12:17 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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Mauserkid
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Registered: 06/03/04
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Loc: Stevensville, Montana
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I truly believe (just my opinion) that this was all planned out. When the ELk, and other wild game population drops to unthinkable numbers due to WOLF Kills. These groups will jump to the next bandwagon. Save the wild habitat, blame the hunter, nut the wolf. BLA BLA BLA, its all the hunters fault BLA BLA BLA..
Sportsman will not be allowed in the woods... No hunting, means no honest citizen has the need to bare arms.. Disarmed from the back door in a matter or speaking....
I am just a honest joe, trying to make sense of the decisions placed on the little guy to fallow....
SO CONFUSING,,,,my head hurts....
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#2239284 - 06/04/08 08:46 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: ehunter]
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VarmintGuy
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Registered: 05/22/03
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Mauserkid: You are right on in sniffing out the "hidden agenda" of the greens! What got the Wolf "ball" rolling (in my opinion!) in the first place, was the intention of most green groups to interfere in ANY and EVERY way they possibly can, with Sport Hunting! They have used Spotted Owls, bans on hound Hunting, stopping Bear baiting, Lynx migration studies and hundreds of other inane based lawsuits over the last 4 decades to disrupt Sport Hunting and access to Hunting areas at every possible turn! Never doubt their ultimate goal and that is to stop, interfere with and denigrate Sport Hunting! And yes these court decisions and land closures all end up heaped on the heads of us common, traditional valued folk! Unfortunately I see even MORE evil intent on the part of the greens coming in about 6 months! Be careful - VERY CAREFUL, who you vote for! I haven't heard from the normal few "Wolf lovers" on this forum for some time now - I wonder where they are lurking these days? Maybe the preponderance of the evidence is getting to them - the diminished Bighorn herds, Moose herds and Elk herds caused by Wolf predation in many areas - along with the CONTINUOUS domestic animal vs. Wolf conflict reports might actually be "convincing" them that there is indeed a problem? A 34% increase in Wolves in one year is just unbelievably bad news for Montana! Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
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#2239325 - 06/04/08 09:11 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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Tim_in_Nv
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Isn't Colorado next for re-introduction of wolves? Oh well, I don't hunt there anyway, let them have them. Tim.(grins)
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#2239350 - 06/04/08 09:31 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: Tim_in_Nv]
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Mauserkid
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Registered: 06/03/04
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Well so far, I am not the only one to see throgh the shadows and see the bigger picture...
Really thought I was going to open some real bad dog food on this one... You know the Wolfs were exterminated for a reason.....
Ya,, I was Pished orf when I couldnt get my wolf tag this year... I think Montana should issue them for free....
Maybe even fine you for not filling your wolf tag. Just think of the revenue Montana could generate on that one. HEHEHEHEHEH...
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#2239831 - 06/05/08 07:44 AM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: Mauserkid]
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hamr56
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Registered: 05/15/08
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Montana needs to have the balls to stand up to the federal government and cut the purse strings, Wyoming did.
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#2239976 - 06/05/08 09:06 AM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: hamr56]
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BuzzH
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This is pretty good here:
"They have used Spotted Owls, Lynx migration studies and hundreds of other inane based lawsuits over the last 4 decades to disrupt Sport Hunting and access to Hunting areas."
Really?
I want to see how spotted owls and lynx migration studies have disrupted sport hunting in any way.
I'd also be interested in a map regarding the areas that hunting is no longer allowed in because of lynx and spotted owls. A summary of the exact number of acres that are off-limits to hunting because of lynx and spotted owls would also be nice.
Thanks in advance.
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#2240628 - 06/05/08 03:05 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: BuzzH]
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VarmintGuy
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BuzzH: How about countless roads closed in Washington and Oregon along with all manner of commerce (like logging for instance) also being shut down - due to the greens and their inane lawsuits allegedly aimed at protecting the "endangered" Spotted Owl! And how about this! Not 20 miles from my present home (for the last 11 years I have lived here in SW Montana - prior to that I lived IN Washington state for 48 years) a huge area had roads closed due to Lynx being in the area! The rationalization for this was "the compressed snow (wheel ruts) caused by fall/winter use (by Hunters in vehicles mainly) allowed the common Coyote access (they travel in the wheel ruts!?!?) to areas where the winter food of the Lynx is then eaten by said Coyotes! I know this is a little difficult for "common sense types to follow - but no one ever said the greens were common sense types! So we have gates on many (all?) sideroads in this area now thanks to the Lynx "protectors"! And believe it or NOT! These same Lynx protectors spent over $200,000.00 in a little over one year (2 winters) studying this lone aspect of Lynx life! The study was exclusively made to determine IF wild Lynx would cross a remote road that was paved! This road (80% paved) runs about 40 miles from Polaris, Montana to Wise River, Montana - EXACTLY! You are welcome in advance, by the way! And this Buzz H, you are not stupid enough are you, to be implying that the greens are NOT using court actions (ad naseum) and road closures and attempts at changing the staus of public lands from useable lands to "wilderness land status" in order to ENHANCE use by Hunters, ARE YOU? Please answer both those simple questions EXACTLY - are you that stupid, and, are you saying the greens do not want sport Hunting interfered with? Everyone on this forum deserves to know where you are coming from and your inteligence level, or lack there of! The greens are right now in the process of changing hundreds of thousands (YES I said hundreds of thousands of acres!) here in SW Montana alone from (where I have Hunted for many decades!) accessable Huntable public lands to virtually inaccessable wilderness lands! Hundreds of thousands of acres Buzz! This lawsuit infested takeover of public lands is being driven by a host of Berkeley, San Francisco and Manhattan based green organizations right now! Don't believe me - call the United States Government, Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, Beaverhead National Forest, Dillon, Montana at 1-406-683-3913 - or for the Supervisors Office dial 1-406-683-3900 - just ask them how many hundreds of thousands of acres are being assaulted in the manner and by the people I describe. EAgain everyone on this forum deserves to know where you are coming from and your inteligence level, or lack there of! Thanks in advance. Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
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#2240913 - 06/05/08 05:56 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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Flinch
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Registered: 01/26/01
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Yeah right, and the DNR knows about every single wolf, where they are, and what they eat. That is so laughable. They actually have to get out of the office and their trucks to get accurage numbers. Those are jus the "reported" wolf deaths and sightings. Big difference from what is actually going on. We have them in Utah now and the DNR refused to acknowledge their existance. Damn government! Flinch
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#2240964 - 06/05/08 06:22 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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alpinecrick
Campfire 'Bwana
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12017
Loc: Western Slope of Colorado
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BuzzH: How about countless roads closed in Washington and Oregon along with all manner of commerce (like logging for instance) also being shut down - due to the greens and their inane lawsuits allegedly aimed at protecting the "endangered" Spotted Owl! And how about this! Not 20 miles from my present home (for the last 11 years I have lived here in SW Montana - prior to that I lived IN Washington state for 48 years) a huge area had roads closed due to Lynx being in the area! The rationalization for this was "the compressed snow (wheel ruts) caused by fall/winter use (by Hunters in vehicles mainly) allowed the common Coyote access (they travel in the wheel ruts!?!?) to areas where the winter food of the Lynx is then eaten by said Coyotes! I know this is a little difficult for "common sense types to follow - but no one ever said the greens were common sense types! So we have gates on many (all?) sideroads in this area now thanks to the Lynx "protectors"! And believe it or NOT!
Translation: I can't race my pickup/ATV up and down the roads whilst "hunting". And when I fail to shoot an elk in the fall, I blame everything else except my lack of effort.......
These same Lynx protectors spent over $200,000.00 in a little over one year (2 winters) studying this lone aspect of Lynx life! The study was exclusively made to determine IF wild Lynx would cross a remote road that was paved! This road (80% paved) runs about 40 miles from Polaris, Montana to Wise River, Montana - EXACTLY!
Actually, roads and Lynx seem to have an uneasy relationship....ask Maine.
And this Buzz H, you are not stupid enough are you, to be implying that the greens are NOT using court actions (ad naseum) and road closures and attempts at changing the staus of public lands from useable lands to "wilderness land status" in order to ENHANCE use by Hunters, ARE YOU?
For the folks who are not lazy, the absence of roads are a boon to virtually ALL big game hunting....for the rest, they'll blame everything but there own lack of ability/effort.
Please answer both those simple questions EXACTLY - are you that stupid, and, are you saying the greens do not want sport Hunting interfered with?
You give the bunny huggers way too much credit......there ain't that many of them, and preserving habitat is where it all begins--a concept that is hard to comprehend from the seat of pickup/ATV.....
Everyone on this forum deserves to know where you are coming from and your inteligence level, or lack there of! The greens are right now in the process of changing hundreds of thousands (YES I said hundreds of thousands of acres!) here in SW Montana alone from (where I have Hunted for many decades!) accessable Huntable public lands to virtually inaccessable wilderness lands! Hundreds of thousands of acres Buzz!
No matter how you say it--you're still obviously a lazy road hunter.
[quote=VarmintGuy] This lawsuit infested takeover of public lands is being driven by a host of Berkeley, San Francisco and Manhattan based green organizations right now! Don't believe me - call the United States Government, Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, Beaverhead National Forest, Dillon, Montana at 1-406-683-3913 - or for the Supervisors Office dial 1-406-683-3900 - just ask them how many hundreds of thousands of acres are being assaulted in the manner and by the people I describe. EAgain everyone on this forum deserves to know where you are coming from and your inteligence level, or lack there of! Thanks in advance. Thanks for nothing rmWf! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Must all be a communist/terrorist/liberal/Chinese/Al Queda plot.........
You're hilarious, Varmint Guy......
Casey
_________________________
The Global Economy and the One World Order are really one and the same--now known as the ONE WORLD ECONOMY....and we are seeing the consequences.
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#2240993 - 06/05/08 06:43 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: alpinecrick]
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Mauserkid
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Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 270
Loc: Stevensville, Montana
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You make an excelent point flinch, The report was 34%, what was the original count by the way.. This is probably a number, felt by the official bean counter, that would not get the public up in arms... Rifles, handguns, and other things that go boom!!!! Lets see, if one wolf can have a litter of 3-5 pups, by my count, I will need more ammo.....
I want a wolf.. tag.....
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#2241003 - 06/05/08 06:51 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: alpinecrick]
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ehunter
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It doesn't take very many to throw a law suit at every thing and disrupt hunting. They also have a lot of do gooders who don't have a clue. Casey I hope your saying the same thing in 10 years as more of us are setting on the side lines because we can't hunt. I agree this country has become a socialistic society a few rule for all of us. Part of the problem is we hunters don't stand together and we don't have the resources at this point to counter sue them every time they throw a stupid law suit up. Hunters are own worst enemy we stand by and watch and throw our hands in the air and walk away while they just keep on smiling.
You give the bunny huggers way too much credit......there ain't that many of them, and preserving habitat is where it all begins--a concept that is hard to comprehend from the seat of pickup/ATV.....
_________________________
If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
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#2241158 - 06/05/08 08:14 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: ehunter]
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alpinecrick
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12017
Loc: Western Slope of Colorado
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It doesn't take very many to throw a law suit at every thing and disrupt hunting. They also have a lot of do gooders who don't have a clue. Casey I hope your saying the same thing in 10 years as more of us are setting on the side lines because we can't hunt. I agree this country has become a socialistic society a few rule for all of us. Part of the problem is we hunters don't stand together and we don't have the resources at this point to counter sue them every time they throw a stupid law suit up. Hunters are own worst enemy we stand by and watch and throw our hands in the air and walk away while they just keep on smiling.
There are more hunters than ever out here in the west--big game hunting ain't going anywhere.
The absolute best testimonial to quality deer/elk/pronghorn hunting are the limited license units--it's can be as good as winning the lottery. Limiting motorized travel (the crux of Varmint Guy's rant) would significantly increase hunting opportunites for the average guy--but so many can't see that because they only spend a short time each year in the hills.
One of the reasons behind limted license units is the states government's response to the increased ablility of motorized vechicles over the past two generations, and a burgeoning big game hunter population.
Although the proportion of hunters may have decreased, that has been offset by an increase of people in America.
Motorized vehicles and roads have done more to hurt the quality of deer/elk hunting than all the big predators combined could ever think of accomplishing.
Big game hunting exists because the vast majority of Americans support or are at least are ambivalent about hunting--and those are the folks who will determine whether we hunt or not. If the majority of hunters are viewed as some screaming maniac--like Varmint Guy comes across--who begrudges every predator every critter it eats, the non-hunters who comprise the majority of Americans will choose all wildlife over hunting. And folks like Varmint Guy unwittingly force that choice.
On the other hand, when hunters are seen as conservationists who express a positive view of wildlife--ALL WILDLIFE--we are ideally situated to be smack in the middle of the conservation efforts--thereby preserving and even increasing our hunting opportunities.
Casey
_________________________
The Global Economy and the One World Order are really one and the same--now known as the ONE WORLD ECONOMY....and we are seeing the consequences.
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#2241181 - 06/05/08 08:28 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: alpinecrick]
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Tim_in_Nv
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great points Casey, I agree that too many vehicles (quads especially) can screw-up the hunting, but what would 10,000 wolves thrown into Colorado do to hunter opportunity? Tim.
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#2241252 - 06/05/08 09:07 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: alpinecrick]
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ehunter
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I am one of the biggest supporters of road less hunting. I hate quads and road hunters. But if we lose access that the genral public can't get for frivious reasons then we are going to lose hunters. Not all hunters able to walk 5 miles and retrieve a elk. If we lose hunters we lose numbers. Lets be honest we are acting like hunting is causing these conflicts. We all know the history. Hunters are resonsible for bring the numbers back from extinction. The numbers a few years ago were record numbers of elk at least in modern times. As hunters we want to harvest the rewards of our success. HUSA and Peta want to do every thing they can to disrupt and shut down hunting. You can't make agreements with the devil and not get burned. If the wolves won't work they will find out a another way. If they can close down access based on a Lynx study they won't hesitate.
Again do you think Oregon has the wilderness to support wolves heck no why do you think we don't want them. We have them because they forced down our throats. So if I sound bitter I am we are have probelms now maintaining calf survival from the cats and bears now we have another preditor added to the mix that was removed from our state like most states for good reasons. If you want to improve habitat get rid of the ranches in the valley quite building subdivions in the winter range. I don't see Peta and HUSA working towards imtproving habitat. All I see them doing is pushing their agenda and forcing the rest of to follow a minority because they are PC.
Where are your stats on booming hunter populations? Every state I know is reporting decreasing hunting numbers. If it seems crowded its because there are more in hunters in fewer areas. In the old days the numbers were thinned out because they were scattered over time not bunched up into a 4 or 5 day hunt.
In Oregon our numbers are so bad that some of the better elk untis are drawn about every 5 years. When I first started deer hunting was a month long any where in the state. Elk hunting was limited until the numbers came back them it was a 2 week season any where in the state. There were more hunters by the numbers in the 60's in Oregon then there are currently. People are giving up the old family hunting camps are going by the way side youth hunters are harder to recruit becasue the family can't hunt like the good old days. No I don't see things getting better. I only see it getting worse.
The absolute best testimonial to quality deer/elk/pronghorn hunting are the limited license units--it's can be as good as winning the lottery. Limiting motorized travel (the crux of Varmint Guy's rant) would significantly increase hunting opportunites for the average guy--but so many can't see that because they only spend a short time each year in the hills.
One of the reasons behind limted license units is the states government's response to the increased ablility of motorized vechicles over the past two generations, and a burgeoning big game hunter population.
Edited by ehunter (06/05/08 09:22 PM)
_________________________
If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
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#2241257 - 06/05/08 09:10 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: Tim_in_Nv]
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VarmintGuy
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Registered: 05/22/03
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I have enclosed an interesting link to JUST ONE WEEKS Wolf activity here in Big Sky country! Some VERY interesting reading in it! The Montana Fish & Game folks make one of these reports out weekly and you can get to them by following the links. This is for the latest week ONLY! Some of these incidents would be laughable if it weren't so threatening to commerce, liveliehoods, game herds and Hunters!
http://fwp.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=33631
Thanks for nothing rmWf!
Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
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#2241273 - 06/05/08 09:21 PM
Re: Wolves Up 34% In One Year (Montana!)
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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ehunter
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I didn't see the elk foundation testifying to keep the delisting??
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If there is any proof of a man in a hunt it is not whether he killed a deer or elk but how he hunted it.
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