#2255690 - 06/14/08 06:21 AM
22 LR pass through?
|
vbshootinrange
Campfire Guide
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 3496
Loc: Lorane, Oregon, USA
|
Offline
|
|
Been shooting "rodents" out of my bird feeders. Usually my dogs get to them befor I do, and eat them. Just want to make sure my dogs aren't ingesting lead.
Haven't ever cut one open to look for bullets. Am thinkin they would pass clear through on somthing as small as a ground squirrel?
Have switched to mostly my 17 HMR, to make sure.(grin!)
Any thoughts?
Thanks! Virgil B.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2255890 - 06/14/08 08:42 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
Bend
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 1546
Loc: Central Oregon, USA
|
Online
|
|
I've had a 22LR pass through a rockchuck stim to sturn on a 102 yard shot. I've also shot tree squirrels with a 22LR, the bullets were never found. I would have more concern with the lead frag in the meat chunks from the HMR then the 22LR.
_________________________
"Will those who are dismantling this society from within or those who seek to destroy us from without be the first to achieve their goal? It is too close to call."
- Thomas Sowell
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2257115 - 06/15/08 06:21 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: Bend]
|
vbshootinrange
Campfire Guide
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 3496
Loc: Lorane, Oregon, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Bend,
Thanks for the reply. Never thought about fragments from the HMR. I knew the bullets blew up, guss there would be jacket fragments also. Hummmm.....
Used to eat ducks killed with lead shot, and bit down on pellets once in a while. Hasn't killed me yet....
Virgil B.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2268991 - 06/22/08 11:41 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
dustoffer
Member
Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 63
|
|
Offline
|
|
"Used to eat ducks killed with lead shot, and bit down on pellets once in a while. Hasn't killed me yet...."
And, that is the key to it all--the exposure is pretty miniscule as compared to the exposure to lead-based paint that kids get into. Not a worry in my mind at all.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2269031 - 06/22/08 12:04 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 879
Loc: SW Montana
|
|
Online
|
|
Vbshootingrange: I am neither a scientist NOR a doctor (veterinary or any other type) but I am pretty sure the ingestion of small amounts of lead and the exposure to small amounts of lead take decades to adversely affect humans.
And tragically our best friends - Dogs - don't live decades.
I am sure you dogs rare ingestion of lead and their rapid digestive process won't cause their longevity to be shortened by much if at all.
Still any precaution you can take to keep the lead out of your dogs would be worthy.
My inspection of hundreds of 22 L.R. killed Ground Squirrel size creatures showed me that yes the 22 projectiles almost always pass through.
Best of luck in your Hunting and with your Dogs.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2271389 - 06/23/08 05:56 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: VarmintGuy]
|
vbshootinrange
Campfire Guide
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 3496
Loc: Lorane, Oregon, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
VarmitGuy,
Thanks for the reply. I worry about the short lifetime of my furry buddies. We loose them so fast, compared to human lifetimes. Have lost so many already, I can't bear to loose another to soon!
One old dog lover, Virgil B.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2271878 - 06/23/08 10:14 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
Seafire
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1782
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Qyote:
Used to eat ducks killed with lead shot, and bit down on pellets once in a while. Hasn't killed me yet....
I once heard an old man say that about smoking.. been doing it for years and it hasn't killed me yet...
_________________________
" Okay Lady, its YOUR elk! Just please let me get my saddle off him first..."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2272745 - 06/24/08 12:59 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: Seafire]
|
David_Walter
Campfire Guide
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 4420
Loc: Southeastern Washington
|
|
Offline
|
|
I work at one of the department of energy laboratories, and used to run a SUPERFUND site for the Air Force.
Contrary to popular myth, the lead in shot is the wrong type to disolve in your digestive tract, and the bullets don't hang around long enough to cause a dog harm.
The only thing about a 22 bullet that will kill you is being in the flight path.
_________________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2273126 - 06/24/08 04:48 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: David_Walter]
|
vbshootinrange
Campfire Guide
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 3496
Loc: Lorane, Oregon, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
David Walter,
THANKS for you're reply! I'm getting some exellent advice here!
Virgil B.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2273159 - 06/24/08 05:20 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
1minute
Campfire Guide
Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2818
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
My guess is the 17 will result in more lead ingested simply due to bullet fragmentation. A recent article in the Journal of Wildlife Management addressed the lead contents of prairie dogs shot with a high vel centerfire unit and found enough lead that there will likely be some followup studies and eventually some legislation due to scavenging by raptors. It looked to be a good study, but it only addressed dogs shot with that particular cartridge. Nothing on a 22LR or a larger caliber.
It's a 2 part question asking how much lead and the particle size. Smaller particles = more exposed surface area. I do strongly suspect we will hear more on this in the coming years.
The EPA does not offer any suggestions as to safe levels of lead.
I hate to think of how many hours I've drifted down western steelhead rivers with split shot for the next rigging carried in my mouth. Hasn't seemed to bother me any. bother me any. bothr em ayn. 1Minute
Edited by 1minute (06/25/08 04:07 PM)
_________________________
1minute
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2273759 - 06/25/08 04:15 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
nighthawk
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: NE South Dakota
|
|
Online
|
|
I agree with David Walter. It's lead compounds that cause trouble, like lead compounds in paint. Lead the metal is pretty stable stuff and should pass through before it can be changed into a compound that a body could absorb. With birds lead pellets get ground by the gizzard so it's quite a different deal.
The only positive thing about a dog's short lifespan is we get to know more of them. Right now I'm wondering what kind of character I'll get to know next. So far they've all been quite different and special in their own way.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2273849 - 06/25/08 05:40 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: David_Walter]
|
ConradNY
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 1808
Loc: Endicott, NY, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
So how come the environmentally ill are complaining about condors dying from eating lead from bullet frags in dead animals ?
Could it be that the lead remains in their stomachs to help with digestions ?
_________________________
Peace through Superior Firepower.
If you want peace then prepare for war.
If you want war then pursue peace and disarm.
If you want to lose a war then put a Democrat in charge.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2274455 - 06/25/08 10:03 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: ConradNY]
|
avagadro
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 6930
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington State
|
|
Offline
|
|
All this chemistry talk is hurtin' my head .....
_________________________
George
Associate Gypsy
Order of Sleepless Knights
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2274518 - 06/25/08 10:31 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: 1minute]
|
VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 879
Loc: SW Montana
|
|
Online
|
|
1minute: When I was a child (from ages 8 through 12) myself and my neighborhood chums had access to small lead ingots, a lead melting pot and fire.
A bad combo this.
For we never tired of trying to melt lead out in the woods and pour it into crude molds we made from scrap wood. We would use chisels to carve out the outline of knives, toys and designs of all types.
We would sit around our campfires and tell stories as we waited for the lead in the pot to melt. Then we would pour the molten lead into our molds.
I know I have spent hundreds of hours inhaling lead fumes (if there is such a thing?) and hundreds of more hours playing with my freshly made lead toys!
I am waiting for the effects of this bit of delinquency to catch up with me any day now.
I hope your ability to spel and commyounikate returns ssoon.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2274814 - 06/25/08 01:10 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
SAcharlie
Campfire Regular
Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1246
Loc: Texas
|
|
Online
|
|
I look to the airgun guys with what they know and do with those light rigs.
Here is one calculation for wound channel.
I get over 8.5" penetration at 50yds 750fps 29gr 22short.
Click on calculators and then Wound Channel Depth.
http://www.airgunexpo.com
_________________________
Nobody wants to hunt with me anymore!.......Richard B. Cheney
Democracy as we know it.....the ability to vote against one or the other.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2275257 - 06/25/08 05:04 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: SAcharlie]
|
vbshootinrange
Campfire Guide
Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 3496
Loc: Lorane, Oregon, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
NightHawk,
You're right on, all Dogs have totally different personalities. 3 months ago we got another pup. Another Golden Retriver, our 6th! Each one has been a joy to our lives, but different in so many ways.
Virgil B.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2275463 - 06/25/08 06:57 PM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: vbshootinrange]
|
MILES58
Member
Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 195
Loc: Minnesota
|
|
Offline
|
|
Some of the responses in this thread are not just wrong. They are dangerous!
Lead in shotgun pellets, paint chips, ingots, split shot and bullets is TOXIC. TOXIC all the time, period end discussion. Lead is lead. If the lead is available to chlorine it will move and be absorbed by a body ingesting it. Lead can be bound in compounds where a significant amount of lead is present but unavailable to chlorine such as lead crystal. It's kind of unlikely that much lead would be absorbed after ingestion of a crystal figurine. Intestinal blockage would be more worrisome.
Lead in any form in any portion of your digestive tract is exposed to chlorine in several forms. Lead and chlorine is extremely active metabolically and can cause damage fairly quickly.
Lead in an accidentally ingested shotgun pellet (split shot) might pass through limiting the amount of lead absorbed. As such removal is not a good choice for something like that. Repeated ingestion will increase the amount of absorbed lead. One won't kill you. Keep it up and it most certainly can and will. A body can eliminate lead but it is not a rapid process. The process can be accelerated, but it is not pleasant.
Talk about lead requiring decades to cause damage is ignorant prattle! Dogs, cats, children etc all can and do become severely affected by lead poisoning and sometimes die from it and it does not require years or months.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2275941 - 06/26/08 02:29 AM
Re: 22 LR pass through?
[Re: MILES58]
|
nighthawk
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: NE South Dakota
|
|
Online
|
|
After hours of searching the Internet I have been unable to find ANY credible source that indicates occasional ingestion of small amounts of elemental lead by mammals poses a significant health risk. Soluble compounds, yes. Chronic exposure, yes. I'd be grateful if you could point me to such a source.
I have found sources (neglected to bookmark) that indicate such ingestion is pretty much benign in that elemental lead is not readily converted to a soluble salt even in the digestive system before it passes through. So rather minuscule amounts of lead is absorbed at any one instance.
If you have sources to the contrary, please post or PM me. I'd like to know.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: RickBin, SYSOP
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
19508 Members
65 Forums
206861 Topics
2555370 Posts
Max Online: 1366 @ 08/07/07 07:51 PM
|
|
|
