#2258596 - 06/16/08 07:27 AM
Military Pension Clawbacks
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CanuckShooter
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Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 292
Loc: British Columbia Canada
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April 14, 2008
The Honorable Jean Crowder;
MP NDP Nanaimo/Cowichan.,
British Columbia
Dear Jean;
Please allow me this opportunity to [A] Identify myself [B] state the purpose of this letter [C] provide you with some back ground and [D] explain my position on the matters at hand., which at times may cause you some concern knowing your position on Vancouver Island.
I am Donnie Cappler, a retired member of the Canadian Military who served 25 years , I currently reside in Nanaimo with my wife June, and may be reached at 250-714-0588 or e-mail djcappler yahoo.ca..
……. The purpose of this letter is to bring to your attention the unjust procedure of the Canadian Government to CLAW BACK military pension at age 65.
I enlisted in the Canadian Military in Aug 1960 and served for 25 years retiring 25 Aug 1985, during these 25 years I saw duty across Canada, and served 7 years with NATO in West Germany in the Cold War era. Though Germany was considered a good posting there were always the threat and constant reminder of the tension between two super powers and we were in the middle.
As a member of the military I was compelled to pay a portion of my monthly salary towards my “end of career” pension, for the purpose of this letter I am going to use MY exact figures or as close as I can get as they pertain to my pay, and allowances and claw back in an effort to drive home the unfairness of the claw back, and to paint a true picture.
Upon my retirement at the end of 25 years service I was awarded a military pension of $1219.00 with no chance of indexing for 18 YEARS, to qualify for indexing a soldier has to obtain the magic number of 85 [age plus years of service] I joined at age 17 and retired at 42. In 2003 at age 60, I was indexed and my pension rose to by approx. 57% to $1913.00, I continued to receive indexing for the next 5 years and my pension reached a grand sum of $2152.00 by January 2008. Then came the good news, as of the month following my 65th birthday [February 2008] my pension would be clawed back on a two tier system. The original pension of $1219.00 would be reduced to $1008.11 and the indexing would be reduced by prorating it over a 23 year time frame [though I only drew the indexing for 5 years] to reflect my new gross pension of $1811.98 a drop of $340.00 per month….Happy Birthday…oh did I forget to mention I now receive OAS of $ 504.00 per month..
In comparing pensions I see federal MPs qualify for a full pension after 6 years of SERVICE and it is indexed immediately, I fully realize there are many times when you are away from your home, neighborhood, and family, and carry on employment in two cities, as a member of the military I to was away from home, an average of 200 days a year for all of my 17 years in combat ready units, yet no extra compensation was ever offered. Twenty five years vs six years. Now comes the BIG kicker…at age 65 MPs pensions are not clawed back…why is that? Seems strange that both the politicians and the military work for the same government yet there are different rules when it comes to pensions….Now that seems fair? Oh I know that OAS for MPs may be reduced or cut out if their total income exceeds the federal allowable amount, of $64,000.00 the same rules apply to military members, the difference is the military pension is so much less it very rarely plays a part. To stress this fact, my yearly pension a combination of CPP, OAS, and Military pension is $32,880.00, may I add this of course is gross, prior to any deductions. There is a reason for that and it based on dollars earned over the years, I do not have any problem with MPs earning a fair salary which relates to a larger pensions that I understand, from a military pay of $64.00 per month in 1960 to a high of $2783.00 in 1985 after 25 years service and obtaining the rank of Master Warrant Officer [MWO] equates to a pension of $1219.00, I ask you where is the justice. The claw back also has far reaching aspects, when a military member dies after age 65 the “spouse” is entitled to 66% of his/her pension, [this was just increased in 2007 from 50% the finework of the NDP ] lets look at the figures…..$2152x66%=$1420.00 compared to $1811.00 x 66%=$1195.00 a net loss of $211.00 per month, this many times is the difference between living and existing, and often strips the “spouse” of their dignity, and financial independence.
I would hate to see the mess in this fine nation would be in if the treaty payments given to our First Nations people were to ever be diminished or welfare and social assistance were cut like that of the military pension, nor can I imagine what the government would do…..on second thought I know what would happen. They would call upon the military to restore order. I do not bring this up just to aggravate you or berate our First Nations people or poke fun at those in need simply to bring to full light the serious unjust manner in which our soldiers, airman, and sailors, vets included are being treated.
I recall several years ago that the Canadian government saw fit to rectify an injustice to the Chinese people of our country by awarding them a settlement of SEVERAL BILLION dollars, despite the fact the injustice was done with the best interest of the Canadian people being foremost. In essence if the government can go back 200 years and rectify some of the problems with the First Nations and 65 years and do the same for the Chinese why is there such a problem with undoing the injustice imposed by the government upon our military that was established in 1966. We are not looking for retro active payments just stop the CLAW BACK, and do it now. Give the soldier the fairness and justice he deserves.
It is not the military Commanders, Commanding Officers or even the Chief of Defense Staff that determine where the military serves, where they go, what they are to do, when they are to do it, theses decisions are made by the members of parliament, those that make up our Nation’s government. It behooves me to understand how politicians can play with the lives of the military member the very lives that gave him/her their freedom and protect their country yet [with the exception of a few] do not support them when unjust and unfair practices are placed upon them. Something that is within their power to do, there seemed to be no problem changing legislation to facilitate the rectifying of “unjust” practices to others. They have no problem committing them to theatres of operations yet sit on their hands when asked to support a Private Members bill introduced by Peter Stoffer MP NDP Sackville-Eastern Shore, Nova Scotia to abolish the military pension claw back in 2006.
It is a known fact the last Liberal government with Paul Martin as the finance Minister extracted approximately $16,000,000,000.00 [BILLION] from the Canadian Military pension fund to pay down the national debt of Canada. Is the national debt not the responsibility of EACH Canadian, oh I understand the military and it’s employment require a good number of $$$$$$$$ to get their job done as the government deems fit and it adds to the debt of Canada, then again so do infrastructure, medical care, OAS and EVERYTHING else that cost money to run a nation. I did not see the government extract any money from one of the richest pension funds available, that of the teachers, why is that? Because they have no control, but they do control the military!
Here are men and women who have written blank checks to the people of Canada to provide a service to the Nation and its protection even if it means giving one’s life, this is a bill paid in advance. These are the same men and women that spent months fighting the flood of the Red River, quelled the Oka uprising in Quebec, cleared the streets of Toronto of snow, commit them selves to aide to civil authority and aide to civil power, lined the streets of Montreal during the FLQ crisis, and currently giving their lives in Afghanistan, all part of that blank check. Each and every month I see politicians traveling around the world visiting our troops, sitting among them, sharing stories, etc, I do not however suspect that one MP that visited Kandahar mentioned the fact that upon retirement and reaching age 65 we will claw back a portion of your pension…..This is not a subject that is NOT known to the “HILL PEOPLE” in Ottawa…Peter Stoffer MP NDP Sackville Eastern Shore, has raised in the house on several occasions, and as mentioned introduced a bill in 2006, and is about to reintroduce yet another private member’s bill [bill 502] to effectively abolish the CLAW BACK of the military pension. We as a “people” of Canada need and look for your support in the passing of this bill. I regress just a moment to say thanks to the NDP for their latest upgrades of the Veterans Act, in 2007 it for sure was a step in the right direction, again my personal, thanks. Ironically while composing/writing this letter I learned of General Hiller’s decision to step down as the Chief of Defense Staff, seems he also has had enough of the policies of the current Conservative government and the unfair way and unjust measures imposed upon his troops.
It is common knowledge that our Prime Minister Mr. Harper and his party favor the status quo, it will take the combined support of all other parties or the convincing of many of the Conservative members to bring a resolve to this improper and unjust act, even if it means a change in legislation .
Respectively submitted;
Donnie Cappler
Sergeant Major
Retired
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#2258649 - 06/16/08 08:18 AM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: CanuckShooter]
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1OntarioJim
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Registered: 08/09/05
Posts: 841
Loc: N. Shore, L. Ontario
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Without taking any position as to the fairness or unfairness of clawing back the military pensions I would point out that many other pension plans contain clawback provisions which come into play at age 65.
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#2259784 - 06/16/08 09:14 PM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: 1OntarioJim]
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troutfly
Campfire Regular
Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: SE Alberta
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The pension amount clawed-back is the amount which a retired CF member receives when CPP kicks in. The figures remain the same income wise for the most part, it just comes from a different pool of funds.
As a retired CF member myself, that is how it was explained during the retirement planning seminars, though I do have a number of years to go before CPP kicks in.
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#2259933 - 06/17/08 03:22 AM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: troutfly]
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378Canuck
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Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 2077
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I wonder if civil servants and government employees or MP´s get the same claw back deal? I´d bet not. Since the military personnel are actually working for the government, then they should be treated equally, since they are in fact government employees hired to serve as ordered. The government vote themselves big pay packages with no say from the people that elect them. They sometimes forget that they are employees of the Canadian people. They tax the shiit out of us all our lives and make beggars of us as we near the end of it. Sergeant Major- I wish you luck and hope you can get a petition going so we can all sign to repeal this BS injustice. We feel for you but what can we do to help?
_________________________
It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
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#2260185 - 06/17/08 07:11 AM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: 378Canuck]
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CanuckShooter
Campfire Regular
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 292
Loc: British Columbia Canada
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It's a pathetic and disgusting way to treat our pensioners, clawing back pensions, while your spending millions $ building roads in Afghanastan and sending millions $ to China and sending millions of $ to the Palestenian Authority [yasser arafat terrorist].
This isn't the only story about the abuse some of our retire military personnel have suffered....our government has no honour.
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#2260199 - 06/17/08 07:19 AM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: CanuckShooter]
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Murf
Member
Registered: 06/26/01
Posts: 200
Loc: Regina, Sask.
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As a retired teacher I can say there is a claw back for our pensions as well.
_________________________
Murf
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#2260354 - 06/17/08 09:02 AM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: Murf]
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n007
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Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 552
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
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I know retired provincial and federal government workers, they also get clawed back on their pensions.
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#2262064 - 06/18/08 09:01 AM
Re: Military Pension Clawbacks
[Re: n007]
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Steve Redgwell
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Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 355
Loc: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
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This letter is the latest attempt to stop the federal government from taking pensioner's money that was (once) paid out from a privately funded plan.
The feds took over the private plan and swallowed the money a couple of years ago. In doing so, they effectively blocked any legal action by pensioners. When they took the money from our private plan and claimed 100% custodianship of it, they believe that they have stopped any possibility of lawsuits. The 1960s agreement about a former RCMP/CF pension plan is gone.
Prior to 2006, NONE the money in the pension plan came from taxpayer's pockets. Not one dime. The pre-2006 pension plan was 100% funded by members.
Prior to the takeover, the feds only looked after distribution of the money. Call it naiviety or a decision from the days when the people tended to trust government, but the RCMP/CF innocently agreed that the feds could act in an administrative capacity and (in those days) send out the monthly pension cheques. If the people that negotiated the original agreement only knew that we'd get royally screwed over...
Over the years, billions of dollars have been siphoned off by the federal government. For example, former PM Jean Cretien took over 30 million dollars out of the fund to pay down the budget or some such nonsense.
There was a lawsuit in the works naming him and the Liberal party liable for the money's disappearnace. It's likely been squashed because the money would be recovered from the gov't coffers and returned to it.
This is a can of worm that only the lawyers will win. If there was a glimmer of hope that the gov't would return the misappropriated funds, the lawyers will swallow most of it up in fees.
http://users.eastlink.ca/~clawback/page-05.htm
Edited by Steve Redgwell (06/18/08 09:07 AM)
_________________________
Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com
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