#2265515 - 06/20/08 08:36 AM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: Bluedreaux]
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GPA
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Registered: 09/17/07
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Loc: Upstate NY
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By all means, try a kit. Your kit should come with every thing you need, except sandpaper for shaping the handle scales. I use 1" belt emery cloth: 80, 120, 180, 240 grit. While not absolutely necessary, a drill press makes drilling pin holes much easier.
Good idea to buy a kit for which your supplier also has a sheath. You can make a sheath, but it's much easier to buy one and shape it according to directions. (Order when you order the kit.)
Beauty of the knife kit is that it comes with everything (nearly) that you need...along with some directions. Your finished knife can/should look every bit as good...probably better...than most commercial production knives. Some worry that their finished knife will look like "everybody else's" who bought the same kit. If you have this concern, Step One is to use a bench grinder/file to reshape the handle section of your kit knife blank slightly to produce your own "one-of-kind" shape.
I am not a custom knifemaker; I am a hobbyist with over 30 knives under my belt. I started with a kit and moved on from there. Along the way, I have acquired my own bag of tips/tricks. Feel free to PM me for more info....or ask for my phone number so we can discuss your project.
Good Luck,
GPA
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#2265928 - 06/20/08 01:39 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: varmintsinc]
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pixarezzo
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Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 1086
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I've thought about buying a kit as well. Are the blades pre-tempered or will the build require some sort of heat treatment?
_________________________
Guns are like guitars - you can never have too many.
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#2265938 - 06/20/08 01:45 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: pixarezzo]
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GPA
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Loc: Upstate NY
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Most will already be heat treated/tempered. Some suppliers (Texas) offer additional crogenic treatment at additional cost.
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#2265941 - 06/20/08 01:46 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: varmintsinc]
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GPA
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Agree totally: For someone who wants the perfect "working knife" for himself.....MAKE YOUR OWN!!!
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#2265966 - 06/20/08 02:06 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: GPA]
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Boise
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Registered: 02/05/01
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Loc: Boise, ID, US
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Agree totally: For someone who wants the perfect "working knife" for himself.....MAKE YOUR OWN!!!
Most would think your suggestion of making your own is accurate but I disagree. The knife builder is going to be the most critical reviewer and perfection doesn't exist, therefore, the knife builder is never going to be fully satisfied.
On the other hand, spending the dollars for a high end custom has a higher probability since the buyer isn't aware of the builder's defects.
For example, I think my handles look like crap. They all have manufacturing defects. But my friends look at them and think they look great - shows what they know about knives.
And sadly, once a knife builder gets to be a journeyman I fear they no longer have the same appreciation for a quality knife since they have already built so many near perfect models and know so many knife making tricks. And my example for this case is 1234567 building a beautiful knife and then using it with a hammer to cut shingles - I agree with Robert's decision to use the knife this way but I can't imagine anyone other than the knife maker taking this action.
Sorry for the ramble, work is very busy and I just don't feel like working.
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#2266003 - 06/20/08 02:35 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: Boise]
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GPA
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Loc: Upstate NY
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Yikes......you must be the front man for the CUSTOM KNIFEMAKER'S GUILD! I would respond simply: Custom knives are for collectors; Those looking for a working knife should not spend money on a custom!
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#2266072 - 06/20/08 03:20 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: GPA]
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Bluedreaux
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 461
Loc: Central Texas
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Boise,
I know exactly what you mean. I'm a carpenter by trade and built my wife a house for a wedding present. Everyone who visited just loved it...but me. Because they just didn't know about all the little imperfections that I did.
I am definitely my own worst critic, but that kinda makes things interesting because when I finish one project I just move on to another...seeking perfection. I really enjoy working with my hands and the challenge of a new project.
_________________________
Blue
A successful hunt is like peeing your pants. Everyone can see the results, but only you get that special warm feeling.
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#2266151 - 06/20/08 04:00 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: GPA]
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dvdegeorge
Campfire Guide
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 4543
Loc: Western N.Y.
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Yikes......you must be the front man for the CUSTOM KNIFEMAKER'S GUILD! I would respond simply: Custom knives are for collectors; Those looking for a working knife should not spend money on a custom!
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#2266215 - 06/20/08 04:33 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: Bluedreaux]
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1234567
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 704
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Bluedreaux:
You asked for an example of a kit knife. This is one. Actually, it wasn't a kit. Someone gave me a blade and I polished it and put wood Micarta handle scales on it, using brass pins.
I don't know what type of steel it is, nor do I know how good it will hold up. I have never used it, but it is heat treated. It is some type of stainless, but I have no idea of the hardness.
Finishing a kit knife is not any different that making one from start to finish, except you buy the heat treated blade instead of making it from bar stock. From then on, everything, putting on the handles, the pins, bolsters, if you use them, polishing, and so on is the same, regardless of where you get your blade.
The very first knife I made, I bought a 1/4 inch electric drill and a mounted stone about two inches in diameter. You can still buy these at hardware stores. For polishing, I bought one of those round plastic disc that you put round pieces of sandpaper on, held with a screw in the center. These disc have a mandrel that goes into the drill chuck.
For the mirror polishing, I bought a cloth buffing wheel about 3 inches in diameter, along with some buffing compound, also available at the local hardware store. These wheels have a mandrel attached which goes into the drill chuck. I did have a vice, and I clamped the drill motor into the vice, using it like a sort of make shift grinder. I made several knives with these few tools.
I did have a few files and wood rasps, but that is all I had. As I sold a few knives, I bought some more equipment, as I could afford it. Not so much so that I could make better knives, but so that I could make them faster. My first major purchase was a sears grinder that I found at a yard sale. The grinder replaced the small mounted grinding wheels that I used in the hand drill.
I made a buffing set up. My source of power was washing machine and electric clothes dryer motors I found in dumps, or at local appliance stores, where the applience store had hauled them off when a customer bought a new washer or dryer.
Even though the washers wouldn't wash, nor the dryers dry, the motors usually worked.
I liked the little knive shown above, and I made and sold several of them using ATS 34 steel at RC 61.
This is one, with staged bone handle scales. I made this one from start to finish, although it is a copy (almost) of the kit blade.
"From Boise--Most would think your suggestion of making your own is accurate but I disagree."
I agree with Boise. When you buy a kit blade, you do not know the type of steel, nor the hardness or heat treating that was used on it. That is the most important thing in the knife, the type of steel and it's heat treating. Even if it is a $10,000.00 knife from the worlds most famous knifemaker, and the blade is made from flattened nails, or flattened tin cans, it is worthless as a cutting tool. Also, the finest and most expensive piece of tool steel is worthless if not properly heat treated.
If someone ever tells you that he uses some type of secret steel, with a secret method of heat treating, put your money back in your pocket and run. Among reputable knife makers, there is no such thing as secret steel and heat treating.
You are also stuck with the design the kit maker thinks you ought to have, although there are so many different designs, there should be a design suitable for everyone's taste.
I know a few knifemakers who buy these blades, reshape them a little bit, etch their name on them and sell them as hand made knives. They are not, not in the sense the Knife Makers Guild considers as a hand made knife.
Sorry to be so long winded, but I wanted to give a complete answer to Bluedreaux' question.
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#2266231 - 06/20/08 04:39 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: dvdegeorge]
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GPA
Campfire Regular
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 939
Loc: Upstate NY
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No, your suggestion that one must have a custom knife is BS. Why the reference to cutless, dagger, etc.?
I must admit to owning a half dozen custom knives. They are all in a custom made display stand. My favorite carry/work knife is one I made myself.
Methinks this discussion would have gone better without your reference to BS. One would hope that those interested in making a knife of their own would ignore your comments....or at least recognize them as BS.
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#2266339 - 06/20/08 05:36 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: GPA]
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dvdegeorge
Campfire Guide
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 4543
Loc: Western N.Y.
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Dude your assertion that custom knives are strictly for collecting "Custom knives are for collectors; Those looking for a working knife should not spend money on a custom!" is BS ....and show me where I said "one must have a custom knife" never did or insinuated such. More power to ya and others for crafting your own,I know sure as chit mine would be nothing like an Ingrams,May,Crotts etc. My knives are tools and get used regardless of how nice they look....If you have a beautiful wife or girl friend are you gonna just stare at her and not touch her 'cause she might get "messed up"?
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#2267209 - 06/21/08 08:50 AM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: dvdegeorge]
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varmintsinc
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 2235
Loc: East Bay, California
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'cause she might get "messed up"?
Thats why I have never posted a picture of my favorite knife I made from cast D2, finished out beautiful but after a couple of seasons it looks horrible. I dinged the micarta on a rock sliding down a hill, got some rock chips in the kydex sheath and that scratched the heck out of the blade for miles. It still takes a wicked edge but I would cry if it had been $300 spent on an Ingram.
To each his own, some like to tell others who made their knife, some want something pretty for display and some only care for performance. I think it ranks right up there with .270 vs .280 stuff...
_________________________
Brag about how close you got not how far you shot.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
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#2267427 - 06/21/08 10:57 AM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: Bluedreaux]
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Bluedreaux
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 461
Loc: Central Texas
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Question,
Some of the fixed blade knife kits seem to have pin holes for a bolster (or whatever it's called) in front of the handle. I would rather just have plain wood handles. Can I just cover those holes up?
And how hard would it be to drill a lanyard hole in the handle or file little grip grooves in the top of the blade?
Edited by Bluedreaux (06/21/08 10:58 AM)
_________________________
Blue
A successful hunt is like peeing your pants. Everyone can see the results, but only you get that special warm feeling.
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#2267532 - 06/21/08 12:18 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: Bluedreaux]
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GPA
Campfire Regular
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 939
Loc: Upstate NY
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Sure you can cover those holes. Fill them with epoxy when you attach the handle scales, and you have epoxy rivets.
Many blade blanks come with a lanyard hole...to which, or in which, you add a piece of rigid tubing. Easy to do.
Drilling new holes can be tough...unless you have some drill bits for extra hard steel. Filing grip grooves should be no problem...again if you have a good file.
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#2267546 - 06/21/08 12:28 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: GPA]
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1234567
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 704
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Sometimes, you can extend the handle material far enough toward the blade to cover the holes for the bolster. That's what I have done, when there was enough space.
Or, you can use epoxy, as GPA advised, or you could use either brass or nickle silver or stainless pins and peen them over and grind the pins flush with the blade. Unless you cover them they are going to be visable, whatever you use.
Drilling and filing? You might or you might not. Depends on the hardness of the blade. Only way to know for sure is to try it.
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#2267600 - 06/21/08 01:19 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: 1234567]
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GPA
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 939
Loc: Upstate NY
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I'm glad you mentioned peening the guard pins: I made quite a few knives before I attempted that. I was convinced that it just couldn't work. First time I tried it....MAGIC! (Note: My favorite carry/work knife is characterized by bolsters attached with roll pins. Looks a little odd, but works. If I were to do it over.....I would pin/peen it.)
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#2267698 - 06/21/08 02:52 PM
Re: Knife Kit Advice
[Re: GPA]
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varmintsinc
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 2235
Loc: East Bay, California
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You can also buy carbide bits to drill a hardened blank but they need to be used in a press and go very slowly. If you put to much stain or induce any sideways pressure you will snap them.
Remember the kits are made up to give you all the components for that pattern. Im not a fan of bolsters either and simply pick a blade that would compliment the style I want, some handle material, and a means of attaching it, either pins or corby rivets.
_________________________
Brag about how close you got not how far you shot.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
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