#2268331 - 06/21/08 10:54 PM
Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
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VarmintGuy
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Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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I bought my first 17 HMR Rifle more than 5 years ago now.
Today I killt my 10th Badger using the 17 HMR cartridge.
And like the previous 9 Badgers this one succumbed instantly with ONE shot!
Now for those of you NOT familiar with Badgers they can carry off a lot of lead! Especially the rimfire kind!
My gunsmith friend and I were out on an early morning Hunt for Ground Squirrels. We were packing rimfire guns only today. I had my Ruger 77/17 V/T in 17 HMR and my trusty Ruger 10/22 with a Lilja barrel. And my main man Don had his all stainless heavy barrel Ruger semi-auto pistol and his two heavy barreled Ruger 10/22's along!
Were we deep into 400 rounds fired when just at noon time I spot a Badger with just his head and neck peering out of an "enlarged" Ground Squirrel hole (where he no doubt had been feeding!).
All the shooting in the area did not keep this badger from surfacing!
I jump to it instantly at the sight of the Badger and switch my Ruger 10/22 for the "big iron" - the Ruger 77/17!
I guess the range to be 120 yards and hold right under the Badgers chin! I was shooting over the hood of the VarmintMobile using one of Don Scotts excellent Dog-Gone-Good large "X" type sand bags! The hold was rock steady and the bullet thumped the Badger creating an easily heard hollow sounding "whompf"!
My spotter called out a hit and I had already jacked another round into the chamber - it wasn't needed as we could see the Badgers body still on the lip of the Badger hole.
I grabbed my Leica Laser Rangefinder and trotted out through the 8 to 10 inch high cultivated grass we were Hunting in.
I got to the Badger and his blood trail was only 6 inches long.
As I was lifting him out of the hole mouth I heard the distinct growling of another Badger down in that hole!
I backed up and waited a minute or so for something to surface but nothing came into view.
This big boar Badger was so large I decided to take it home and put it in the freezer for the Taxidermist.
The Leica Laser rangefinder was turned back onto the Varmintmobile from the kill site and it read out at 134 yards!
The bullet entered the throat just below the chin and did not exit.
I am going to weigh the Badger tomorrow once it juices and its fleas are frozen.
Over the past 45 years I have shot quite a number of Badgers - many while Hunting Ground Squirrels - so they have been shot with 22 rimfires, 22 Magnums and now with the 17 HMR cartridge that I prefer to use while Gopher Hunting.
I distinctly remember on one occassion unloading a Ruger 10/22's full clip (10 rounds!) of 22 long rifle hollowpoints at a running Badger at about 50 yards distance!
That Badger still made it to and down into its den!
I never rerieved it.
And I am sure I hit it at least 6 or 7 times during that quick bit of shooting.
My partner at the time really gave me the gears for not "killing" that Badger, although I am quite certain it died in short order!
Last year I killed 3 Badgers in one day with my 17 HMR Rifle!
This was a new record for Badgers taken in one day, for me.
Todays Badger was killed with the V-Max type bullet.
Not only did the 17 HMR do great work on the Badger but I also knocked over a Jack Rabbit with it and I went through 150 rounds total - mostly on Ground Squirrels.
I am simply amazed at the lethality and the flat trajectory of the 17 HMR!
Speed kills.
The grass and cultivated crops are getting so high now that we are going to need some help from the cutting crews to be able to keep Hunting Ground Squirrels.
Today we tried to find high ground for our set-ups, to help us spot our game. Even looking down into the crops from many of our shooting spots the Ground Squirrels were most often invisible when they were crawling along.
Most shots were taken as they stood up checking for danger.
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2268636 - 06/22/08 07:55 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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ruger243223
Campfire Regular
Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 1299
Loc: Nebraska
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Varmintguy great story, and a great kill, but I still feel that if you shoot anything in the head it will die. The 17hmr is all that you say it is but if you like it great. The 22mag will do the same thing but farther than your 17 and with more authority. Now if I decide to shoot the same badger in a less than great spot it will run no matter what. The badger your shot with the 22lr and 10rds likely was not hit in the head or neck. Shot placement is key with all rds big or little. Congrats on the digger they make a great mount. HAPPY HUNTING
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#2269009 - 06/22/08 11:52 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: ruger243223]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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Ruger243223: I think that was the point of my recent posting and many prior postings here and elsewhere - the 17 HMR is THE most lethal, rimfire Varmninting cartridge!
Its not only more lethal than any other rimfire, its more accurate, shoots flatter and straighter, than any other rimfire!
These attributes of the 17 HMR add to its lethality and desirability!
I began using the 22 Magnum MANY decades ago along with some other 22 Magnum or "22 special" type rounds - none of them compare to the 17 HMR for Varminting usages.
I still own a couple of 22 Magnum arms and would use them if they were superior to the 17 HMR in any way - they aren't, so I don't!
I am closing in on 20 Varminters that I have Hunted with this year alone, that have brought along one of more 17 HMR's to Varmint with - not ONE has brought along a 22 Magnum!
I will not decry those who use the 22 Magnum if they have one - but anyone who foresakes the 17 HMR in favor of using the 22 Magnum, IS, settling for a lesser rimfire cartridge!
Lesser by a significant amount.
And your contention that the 22 Magnum "will do the same thing but farther than your 17 and with more authority" is simply preposterous!
I know better - again I have used them both and compared them both at the range AND in the field.
Take the time to review some ballistic tables and get about 5 full years of year round use with the 17 HMR on Varmints and at the range, and you WILL come up with the same conclusion I have!
Let alone the nearly 20 Varminters I have hosted and Hunted with this year so far!
Then go talk to 50 or 60 gunshop owners and wholesalers and gunshop workers (like I have done!) regarding sales of 22 Magnum ammo and guns, versus 17 HMR ammo and guns!
Those conversations alone will show you the error of you ways!
Or maybe everyone else is wrong about the 17 HMR... NAW, I don't think so!
Long live the new "King of rimfires" the 17 HMR!
You are exactly right though about the "head" part of your posting on my shooting of the running Badger! I didn't aim for its head, intentionally, as I was holding for upper body mass hits. I may have hit its head or neck but I will never know.
Still not many Varmints can pack off 6 or 7 hollow-point 22 L.R. body shots!
My point being, Badgers ARE tough to kill and my experiences so far with my 17 HMR's on Badgers FAR surpasses any other rimfires performance I have had or seen first hand.
You may have doubts about the 17 HMR's lethality on Varmints but take it from me - an unbiased rimfire user of decades duration - the 17 HMR is more lethal (for a variety of reasons!) on Varmints than the 22 Magnum.
Thus its a better choice for rimfire Varminting!
I'm not the only one who thinks this - again witness the lopsided sales of ammunition AND arms in the two calibers.
I seldom shoot for head shots on Varmints - about the only time I do so is when the head is the only thing visible on a wary Varmint! I prefer the larger heart/lung shots and as so often is the case on Badgers (during daylight hours anyway) the shot I prefer when they are peering out of their holes is the "throat" shot.
Your bestowment of more "authority" on the 22 Magnum is not convincing to me.
I base my contention on significant and long term field experiences.
And not just my experiences but the experiences of my close Hunting friends.
All this experience points AWAY from the 22 Magnum and toward the 17 HMR.
I was just last evening reading the latest issue of "The Varmint Hunter Magazine". One of the authors therein described his experiences with the 17 HMR on Prairie Dogs thusly: "Hits (kills!) on prairie dogs out past 200 yards with the "Hummer" (as some like to call the 17 HMR) are COMMONPLACE".
I have NEVER heard ANYONE describe the 22 Magnum's performance in similar terms!
Again best of luck with your 22 Magnum.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2270088 - 06/23/08 12:33 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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Seafire
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 04/20/04
Posts: 1566
Loc: Southern Oregon USA
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VG,
you need to spend a quick C note and pic yourself up a cheap digital camera....
love your stories, but some pics accompanying them, would be fantastic..
cheers
seafire
_________________________
A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46."
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#2270604 - 06/23/08 10:10 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: Seafire]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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Seafire: I am actively shopping for a digital camera even as we speak. I am looking in the Nikon line and have seen a couple that APPARENTLY do everything?
I am trying to learn as I shop about these electronic wonders.
Two digital Nikon cameras I would like to have are in the $1,000.00 to $1,500.00 range.
I have given up trying to find a new technology camera that will use/accomodate my older but still splendid Nikon "bayonet" type array of lenses.
It has also been pointed out to me that I CAN always turn my 35mm technology prints into CD's and thus get some computer friendly photo's.
I am just not to motivated for some reason???
Thanks for the kudo and concern.
I am Hunting again tomorrow and we are planning on chasing Ground Squirrels in the deep alfalfa with rimfire pistols!
The alfalfa is so high you can walk up to about 7 yards of them and shoot down at them from close-up.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2276744 - 06/26/08 10:21 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: Nebraska]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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Nebraska: Thank you for the kudo and the tip on "Doug" the camera guy.
How can I contact him or if he reads this he is welcome to contact me at: VarmintGuy aol.com
Thanks again.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2280414 - 06/28/08 07:24 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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Bill_I
Member
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Southwestern NY
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Ruger243223: I think that was the point of my recent posting and many prior postings here and elsewhere - the 17 HMR is THE most lethal, rimfire Varmninting cartridge!
Got to agree, if one is shooting fragmenting ammo in the 17hmr as I feel thats where its kill power comes from. With out that (ex. 20 grain hp's/ should have made that one an exposed soft point imo) its power drops off fast.
I have shot hundreds of woodchucks/groundhogs with both 17hmr's and 22mags. Pretty good sized varmint............the 17hmr is more lethal with either plastic tips or TN'Ts by a very noticeable margin.
But with HMR ammo price hikes and not shooting colony varmints, reloading the 22 Hornet has never made more sense than "now" for what we do here, in regards to "roving".
Quality rim mag ammo is currently "over priced" IMO. CCI has a near monopoly on it.............personally.......it kind of "rubs me wrong"......so I veto it with the Hornet reloading..........which is better in ALL areas from accuracy to kill power to costs.
Edited by Bill_I (06/28/08 07:24 AM)
_________________________
"I ain't as good as I once was but, I'm as good once as I ever was"
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#2280681 - 06/28/08 10:14 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: Bill_I]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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Bill I: Over the decades I have not had any luck with the 22 Hornet and obtaining "good" accuracy.
My FIRST 17 HMR came OUT OF THE BOX shooting BETTER than any 22 Hornet I have ever owned!
And I have owned a bunch of them i.e.: savages, Kimbers, Winchester Model 70's, Winchester Model 43's, Anschutz's, Ruger 77's and I now own a Ruger #1-B in 22 Hornet.
That Ruger #1-B in 22 Hornet has such beautiful wood on it that its the only reason I still own it!
I mean I have tried for decades to get Hornets to shoot accurately (less than .700" five shot groups at 100 yards for instance) and I have just never gotten there.
Again my Ruger 77/17 V/T came out of the box shooting better than any 22 Hornet I have ever owned.
Maybe I have a 22 Hornet curse or something?
And I agree with your assessment that 17 HMR ammo is over-priced!
All factory ammo is bizarrely priced these days though!
I wheel and deal and swindle and beg for better prices when I buy 17 HMR ammo these days!
I am not sure if I have told you but I have a wealthy rancher friend who in the last 14 months has bought me 3 cartons (1,500 rounds) of 17 HMR ammo!
It pays to concentrate on Ground Squirrels where the "monied" ranchers grow their alfalfa!
I had one other person give me a carton of 17 HMR ammo (and as with my rancher friend I begged him NOT to be so generous!). This other generous person owns one of the most successful gunshops in Washington state so I ended up graciously accepting the gift of 17 HMR ammo.
I can't count on gifts of 17 HMR ammo to keep me Varminting though.
It hurts when I buy the stuff anymore!
But then its nothing to use up $20.00 worth of diesel fuel in my VarmintMobile on a LOCAL Varmint Hunt anymore!
Where's it gonna stop?
It's really not fair or appropriate though to compare the 17 HMR (rimfire round) to the 22 Hornet (centerfire round) lethality wise though - thats like comparing raisins to grapes!
Cost and accuracy can be compared but lethality is an "iffy" contention fairness wise.
I currently have a love/hate relationship with the 22 Hornet while my feelings toward the pricey little 17 HMR is ga-ga love (which causes a Varminter to overlook small flaws like being expensive!).
And remember the rimfire ammo only restrictions that are in effect on some ranches that I Hunt.
Long live the miserable little 22 Hornet!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2281186 - 06/28/08 04:06 PM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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tjm10025
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 1503
Loc: Carmel, IN
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Seafire: I am actively shopping for a digital camera even as we speak. I am looking in the Nikon line and have seen a couple that APPARENTLY do everything?
VG:
By all means, but save a C-note for a vest pocket digital. They're like a backup handgun. You'll have it with you when the big-azz Nikon is left behind in the truck for weight considerations.
- Tom
_________________________
I came here for the waters.
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#2283260 - 06/29/08 05:53 PM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: VarmintGuy]
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Bill_I
Member
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Southwestern NY
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Bill I: Over the decades I have not had any luck with the 22 Hornet and obtaining "good" accuracy.
My FIRST 17 HMR came OUT OF THE BOX shooting BETTER than any 22 Hornet I have ever owned!
Well........maybe the wind blows more here?
I have owned hunted 2-17hmrs, 3-22mags and 3-22Hornets.
Day in and day out conditions. The 2-Hmrs were about 1"-1.25", 5 shot @ 100. The 22mags 1.5" same. Two of the 22 Hornets .6-.75" same with reloads 1"-1.25" with factory. The other Hornet (a break action was 1" with reloads)
All Hornets carried m.o.a. to 200 on the vast majority of days.
I like rim mags but given the ammo price hikes the last few years and the fact I hunt/call Woodchuck/Fox/Coon/Coyote size critters here rather than colony varmints. I appreciate the low cost of reloads,efficiantcy,barrel life,accuracy,power yet still mild muzzle blast of the 22Hornet more as compared.....for what i do.
Edited by Bill_I (06/29/08 05:57 PM)
_________________________
"I ain't as good as I once was but, I'm as good once as I ever was"
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#2284411 - 06/30/08 10:20 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: tjm10025]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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Tjm10025: Tom, thanks for the tip on the mini size (and cost) pocket digital camera - I appreciate it.
I had a group of people in over the long weekend just past and they had some of the min-size digitals. We hooked them up to the VarmintComputer and indeed the pictures were amazingly detailed and clear.
Good advice thanks again
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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#2284422 - 06/30/08 10:26 AM
Re: Badger Goes T.U. - Ala 17 HMR!
[Re: Bill_I]
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VarmintGuy
Campfire Regular
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 757
Loc: SW Montana
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Bill_I: Thanks for your reply. I am always interested in how other folks accuracy compares to mine.
Your 17 HMR accuracy differs appreciably from mine - mine shoots much better than 1.000" groups at 100 yards - and your Hornet accuracy is much better than my Hornets have accomplished.
Thanks again.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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