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#2278437 - 06/27/08 07:21 AM The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!!
isaac
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Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 16075
Loc: Northern Virginia

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Sorry doom and gloomers. You guys didn't feel like cherry-picking this one, did you??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



After-tax incomes and spending show big gains By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer
1 hour, 7 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The millions of economic stimulus payments gave a massive jolt to household finanances in May, sending after-tax incomes up by the largest amount in 33 years.


The payments helped boost consumer spending by the largest amount in six months.

The Commerce Department reported that disposable incomes, the amount left after paying taxes, surged by 5.7 percent last month. It was the biggest increase since May 1975, reflecting $48.1 billion in rebate payments made last month. The surge in incomes helped boost consumer spending by 0.8 percent, the biggest gain since last November.

The administration is hoping that the $106.7 billion in stimulus payments being made this year to 130 million households will be enough to offset serious drags on the economy at the moment from a prolonged housing slump, a severe credit crisis and soaring energy bills.

However, economists are worried that the boost from the stimulus checks will be only temporary and once the checks are spent, the risks of the economy falling into a deep recession will increase.

Worries about the economy showed up in turbulent financial markets this week with the Dow Jones industrial average plunging by nearly 360 points on Thursday to the lowest level in almost two years. Investors were worried about the impact soaring energy prices and a slumping financial sector will have on future growth.

The rebate checks are part of a $168 billion package of tax relief for individuals and businesses that Congress passed in February at the urging of the administration in an effort to give the economy a boost and ward off the threat of a deep recession. The payments began on April 28 and are scheduled to be completed by mid-July.

The Bush administration currently is resisting Democratic calls for a second stimulus package even though economists are worried that the effects of the boost will prove temporary at best. They fear the stimulus will fail to prevent a serious slump in the second half of this year as the economy's troubles from housing, a severe credit sqeeze and soaring energy prices mount.

For May, overall incomes rose by 1.9 percent after a 0.3 percent rise in April. Part of that increase reflected the portion of the stimulus payments that are going to low-income individuals. But the bigger impact showed up in after-tax incomes, which shot up by 5.7 percent in May after a 0.4 percent rise in the month before, reflecting the bulk of the stimulus payments, which represent a tax break for most households.

The hope is that the stimulus payments will do the trick to bolster consumer spending, which accounts for two-thirds of total economic output.

For May, consumer spending jumped by 0.8 percent, double the 0.4 percent gain in April. Excluding the effect of rising gasoline and other price increases, inflation-adjusted spending rose by 0.4 percent in May, the biggest one-month increase since last August.

A closely watched inflation gauge tied to consumer spending was up 0.4 percent in May but excluding energy and food, the increase was a much smaller 0.1 percent. Over the past 12 months, core inflation excluding food and energy is up 2.1 percent, just above the Federal Reserve's comfort zone.

The Fed earlier this week brought an end to an aggressive string of interest rate cuts designed to protect the economy from toppling into a deep recession, citing increased worries about inflation pressures coming from surging energy prices.

The big increase in after-tax incomes based on the surge in stimulus payments pushed the personal savings rate to 5 percent, the highest level since May 1995. Personal savings represent the amount of after-tax income consumers have left after deducting their spending for the month.

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#2278447 - 06/27/08 07:30 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: isaac]
jorgeI
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 4300
Loc: Orange Park, Florida

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Issac, wht you need to do is title this and other positive posts under some "catchy" title like "Ahem...." so people including the half empty glass doomsayers will read it. Naturally they won't comment, but instead they'll quickly surf the leftie, hate America pages and post more negative crap. \:\) jorge
_________________________
" In essence, the democratic political platform is socialist, anti-capitalist, pro-abortion, anti-gun and secular, and in my view,and just like Bristoe anti-American."......*ME*

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#2278448 - 06/27/08 07:30 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: isaac]
Tod
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Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 4501
Loc: Helena MT

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Every wonder why they do this?

 Quote:
excluding food and energy


It's not like anyone pays for that stuff, right/
_________________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P. J. O'Rourke

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#2278458 - 06/27/08 07:36 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Tod]
triggerguard1
Campfire Regular


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1092
Loc: Prineville, OR 97754

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The stimulus is a joke at best and is a temporary bandaid on a serious life-threatening wound.

Oil is what is going to break this country down further than it's ever been.

Just wait till about this time next year when you get to hear what the politicians have for a solution to our depression and and devalued dollar................
_________________________
Matt Williams V.P.

Williams Firearms Company Inc.



http//:www.williamsfirearms.com "

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#2278467 - 06/27/08 07:42 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: isaac]
Barak
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Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 8573
Loc: Idaho. Nah, but I can dream.....

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I thought we'd already dealt with that "economic stimulus" garbage.

The money isn't new wealth; therefore it's not really expanding the economy. It's coming either from taxes (stealing), borrowing (promises to steal in the future), or inflation (counterfeiting): the State has no other sources for money. That means that whatever increase we see in the economy now will have to be paid for by a contraction in the economy later.

Real expansions in the economy can only come from innovation resulting in new products, increased production or increased efficiency of production; and that kind of innovation comes only from the private sector. Government coercion can only ever redistribute existing wealth, never create new wealth; and the wealth it's redistributing to us now is being redistributed away from our children and grandchildren.

Once more, we have politicians shoveling crap from the present into the future, same as they've been doing ever since we came off the gold standard, and especially since the end of Bretton Woods in 1971.
_________________________
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867

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#2278472 - 06/27/08 07:43 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: triggerguard1]
isaac
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Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 16075
Loc: Northern Virginia

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The stimulus is a joke at best
___________________________________

Apparently not.

Even Bammy is campaigning for another as we write!!

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#2278478 - 06/27/08 07:47 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Barak]
derby_dude
Campfire Guide


Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 4154
Loc: Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...

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 Originally Posted By: Barak
I thought we'd already dealt with that "economic stimulus" garbage.

The money isn't new wealth; therefore it's not really expanding the economy. It's coming either from taxes (stealing), borrowing (promises to steal in the future), or inflation (counterfeiting): the State has no other sources for money. That means that whatever increase we see in the economy now will have to be paid for by a contraction in the economy later.

Real expansions in the economy can only come from innovation resulting in new products, increased production or increased efficiency of production; and that kind of innovation comes only from the private sector. Government coercion can only ever redistribute existing wealth, never create new wealth; and the wealth it's redistributing to us now is being redistributed away from our children and grandchildren.

Once more, we have politicians shoveling crap from the present into the future, same as they've been doing ever since we came off the gold standard, and especially since the end of Bretton Woods in 1971.


Gotta agree with ya on this one.
_________________________
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” General George S. Patton Jr.

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and capitalism is anathema to both the power of government and the Church." Derby Dude

Sell on greed; Buy on fear.

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#2278479 - 06/27/08 07:47 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: triggerguard1]
Penguin
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Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 2349
Loc: North Carolina

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Cool... now all we need to do is borrow a few trillion more dollars and we can spend our way into prosperity. :p

Just like what got us into this mess.

This is entirely expected. You pump billions in and you get billions out. But it is all a mirage. Just like all those other trillions we borrowed and spent. These increases were not the product of increased investment in growth industries, they were not the result of smart research and development. Nope, they are the product of dumping billions into the economy.

Borrowed billions.

Things have changed in the last month or so issac. I could understand reasonable people thinking that we would glide over a rough patch and get back to business as usual up until the last month or so. I am afraid Bristoe and a few others are going to make you regret these posts at this late stage of the game. :p

Will
_________________________
It'd be a lot cooler if you did.

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#2278484 - 06/27/08 07:49 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: isaac]
triggerguard1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1092
Loc: Prineville, OR 97754

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 Originally Posted By: isaac
The stimulus is a joke at best
___________________________________

Apparently not.

Even Bammy is campaigning for another as we write!!


Same boy who voted against the tax breaks???? Nevermind, I already knew that answer.
_________________________
Matt Williams V.P.

Williams Firearms Company Inc.



http//:www.williamsfirearms.com "

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#2278485 - 06/27/08 07:50 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Penguin]
Penguin
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Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 2349
Loc: North Carolina

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AND another thing.

The senate is getting close to finalizing a bailout of the banking industry and underwater homeowners. Looks like the will get around to passing it in July. If that doesn't scare you it should.

That piece of legislation will mark the first formal assumption of private debt, both of the bankers and of the supposed homeowners. If it passes it will end up growing into the largest bailout in the history of mankind.

I'm not being hyperbolic here. It will dwarf even the Savings and Loan bailout. I can't believe this is going on unnoticed by the mainstream press.

Will
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It'd be a lot cooler if you did.

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#2278490 - 06/27/08 07:54 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Barak]
isaac
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Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 16075
Loc: Northern Virginia

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Barak...How are you gonna pay your bills in Barakstan?
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#2278500 - 06/27/08 07:56 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Penguin]
Bristoe
Campfire 'Bwana


Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 13961

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The Dow Jones graph is making a very unusual pattern today.

It's currently down about 60 points while oil has topped the $140 mark and gold has rocketed to $926.5 per ounce,.. up $11.47 from yesterday in just one hour of trading. It's going to be an interesting day to watch.

http://www.marketwatch.com/

And this on Gold:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/go...0629E1A6F5D7%7D

"People are finally coming out of the fog and realizing that we're in a world of hurt and people are plain scared," said Dale Doelling, chief market technician at Trends In Commodities.
"Stocks are in the toilet, the dollar is getting hammered, oil is going through the roof, food commodities are in the stratosphere [so] there's only one solution," he said. "Buy gold! Buy silver! Buy them because they're the only defense against what's happening in all the other markets."



_________________________
Among the worst aspects of the collapse of traditional conservatism is that my children will grow up in a world in which vulgar and belligerent nationalism will be presented to them as the alternative to leftism.

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#2278506 - 06/27/08 07:58 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Bristoe]
isaac
Campfire Kahuna


Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 16075
Loc: Northern Virginia

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Gold is high the last couple days gratis the Feds. Next week it will shoot down, as always.

Buy a bunch of gold Bristoe. Put your money where your mouth is!!

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#2278508 - 06/27/08 07:59 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: isaac]
Barak
Campfire Outfitter


Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 8573
Loc: Idaho. Nah, but I can dream.....

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 Originally Posted By: isaac
Barak...How are you gonna pay your bills in Barakstan?

Is this a trick question?

With the money my delighted customers willingly give me in exchange for the products I craft and the services I perform.
_________________________
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867

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#2278539 - 06/27/08 08:17 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: jorgeI]
Bristoe
Campfire 'Bwana


Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 13961

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 Originally Posted By: jorgeI
Issac, wht you need to do is title this and other positive posts


You consider that article positive?

I agree that it tries to put the best face possible on the situation,.. but even so, it's lukewarm at best.

Basically, it says that people are spending the meney that the government borrowed to give to them,.. but any effect will be temporary.
_________________________
Among the worst aspects of the collapse of traditional conservatism is that my children will grow up in a world in which vulgar and belligerent nationalism will be presented to them as the alternative to leftism.

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#2278549 - 06/27/08 08:21 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Barak]
1akhunter
Campfire Outfitter


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 8748
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska a piece down...

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I believe someone mentioned a while back that volatility would be increasing, giving each camp plenty of days to both crow and then subsequently eat crow in the future.



can't speak for Bristoe, but I followed your advice Bob, though a bit premature, I bought 200 more ounces of Gold at 903, only to watch it trade back to the bottom of the range, a ballsy guy would have bought 200 more around 860 per, but I didn't.



there appears to be resistance at the 930 per area, so think I may cash in and wait for a pullback to buy more.

course the core holdings I have with average cost of $300 per oz., I think I'm just going to sit on, I've always loved insurance that you just pay the premium once.

we certainly live in interesting times, I'm hoping all my friends profit from these days of opportunity, no matter which camp they subscribe to.
_________________________
"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."

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#2278561 - 06/27/08 08:27 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: 1akhunter]
Bristoe
Campfire 'Bwana


Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 13961

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 Originally Posted By: 1akhunter
so think I may cash in and wait for a pullback to buy more.



It's up $14+ for today as of now.
_________________________
Among the worst aspects of the collapse of traditional conservatism is that my children will grow up in a world in which vulgar and belligerent nationalism will be presented to them as the alternative to leftism.

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#2278573 - 06/27/08 08:34 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Bristoe]
1akhunter
Campfire Outfitter


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 8748
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska a piece down...

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trust me Bristoe, I watch the price of gold, but I just chickened out/ or used some good anaylysis and sold at 929.

I've learned from trading that I very well may have left money on the table, but bulls make $$$, bears make $$$ and pigs get slaughtered. (grin)

I think on balance gold is going to go much higher than where it's at currently, but it won't all do it today, or it might.

can't get rich with my paltry little trading strategies, but hard to go broke taking profits.

any hoo with two gap up days, we may see some more btw, but I think we'll see a pullback and I hope to add some positions again.

bought back the dollars I was short, and sold my gold positions,

only picked up a little over 7K for my trouble, so as said not going to get rich, but every little bit helps.
_________________________
"This ain't dress rehearsal....it's the life you get to live, make it a good one."

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#2278586 - 06/27/08 08:39 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: 1akhunter]
Bristoe
Campfire 'Bwana


Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 13961

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Yeah,.. it could drop some, but I doubt that it will stay low.

Blue chip stocks have had their worst June since the great depression slammed them in 1930.

Investors are scared of the stock market,... real estate is tanking,... commodities are the only refuge left.
_________________________
Among the worst aspects of the collapse of traditional conservatism is that my children will grow up in a world in which vulgar and belligerent nationalism will be presented to them as the alternative to leftism.

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#2278589 - 06/27/08 08:41 AM Re: The Sky Is Falling!!! Finanacial Doom Is Here!! [Re: Bristoe]
isaac
Campfire Kahuna


Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 16075
Loc: Northern Virginia

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A prediction. AWESOME!!

Thanks much, Bristoe!!

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