#2283599 - 06/29/08 08:05 PM
Pencil barrels suck
|
armedferret
Member
Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Fort Meade, MD
|
Offline
|
|
...as referenced by this crappy group.
Model Seven SS in 7SAUM, 120TSX, 54g Varget, 2.210 @ ogive, .784 edge-to-edge which yields right at .5" center-to-center.
The two above are wifey's sighters as she got her .243 sighted in. She was so ecstatic that she hit the prairie dog in the neck on shot #2 (quality scopes that track well are always a good investment) that she wanted to take a photo. :giggle:
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2292413 - 07/04/08 03:18 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: DanAdair]
|
65BR
Campfire Regular
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1150
|
|
Offline
|
|
Holdability and heat are the challenges. Though there intent was not multiple shot strings, good 2 or 3 shot groups consistent are enough for much game, but the above 2 issues are why I personally choose standard sporter and heavier, just gives me field accuracy easier, and ability to shoot more rounds at bench w/o bbl getting overly heated, just a personal preference, do have to admit thought about a Montana many many times, but in between them, so many inconsistent reports........must be hit/miss w/how they shoot?
Have heard those thin tubes sometimes can be helped w/Cryo. No first hand experience to say myself, and few times I considered, wondered if I was going to get an ROI.....return on investment.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2292991 - 07/04/08 11:20 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: 65BR]
|
muledeer
Campfire Guide
Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 4836
Loc: Ketchikan, AK, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
A lot of people have heard a lot of things.
But it takes money to buy whiskey.
DN
_________________________
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2294200 - 07/05/08 08:14 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: muledeer]
|
65BR
Campfire Regular
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1150
|
|
Offline
|
|
Muledeer, not sure what you meant, but passing on that comment as someone knowledgable in the industry suggested I try Cryo on a gun that did not shoot like the ones commented above, a M7 SS in 260, but I put the money towards a heavier custom bbl and it shot great. My experience is they will/do shoot but can be fickle, but I am sure you can just as easily get a bad bbl in heavier contour than light.....perhaps just not as likely????
The guns above shoot very well regardless of contour.
BTW, aren't those magnum caliber M7's a heavier contour than say 243/708/308's?????
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2294216 - 07/05/08 08:24 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: 65BR]
|
peepsight3006
Campfire Guide
Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 2739
Loc: Utah
|
|
Offline
|
|
If they like the loads you feed em, and the thing is bedded right, and the barrel is free floated, skinny minnies will shoot right with the others for up to 3 shots. I like all mine, and even more now that it's tough for me to move around much.
Wayne
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2294372 - 07/05/08 10:36 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: peepsight3006]
|
DanAdair
Campfire Regular
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 367
Loc: Flathead County, MT.
|
|
Offline
|
|
When I was an engine builder, we had some stuff cryo'd, just out of R&D desires. Granted, crankshafts, wrist pins, and connecting rods are quite a bit bigger parts and pieces (and much different alloys) than rifles. But it amazed me how much stuff moved around in the process. We sent in one batch of connecting rods (it was a class that required stock rods and crank.) Just out of curiosity we did all the machine work BEFORE sending them in for cryo. They shrank about .003" across the big end on average. We had to hone them again to trust them. I recall they felt a little "gooey" for Chevy 350 rods the 2nd time. These were rods that already had been subjected to extensive shot peening (before the first rework.) They did last 3 seasons though (we used to have race engines apart twice a year for most customers) we monitored their wear and tear closely. Ironically, the one guy we used to sponsor had a pretty "No Frills" Chevy 350 in a Street Stock, other than solid fundamental machine work. That car went on to win 3 championships, set two track records at one track, recently tie a track record at Pablo, and in traffic in Spokane was turning times on par with their next higher class (would've been a track record, but we didn't have our schitt together before time-in's) Ironically, there's a lot of paralells to rifle shooting in there. The guy with the "No-Frills" race motor is without a doubt the best "Wheelman" I've ever seen racing around my part of the country (he could drive "Junk" real fast.) The guys trying to build trick [bleep] and just barely play by the rules would benefit greatly from more "Seat Time." (They keep tweaking on their cars to no end instead of wheeling what they got.)
So in my limited experience. I would be hesitant to cryo a rifle, just because there may be some dimensional issues after the fact. Unless I did it BEFORE it was off to get "blueprinted."
_________________________
If at first you don't suceed, put another bullet in it
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2294629 - 07/06/08 08:00 AM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: GSSP]
|
65BR
Campfire Regular
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1150
|
|
Offline
|
|
Good info, thanks all.
Now GSSP, did you use a light bbl to offset the weight of that Hubble telescope! Nice shooting, bet the AI will sing those 180s in a 26" tube. Seems to be a very practical but in today's time less common wildcat. I'd guess you are getting 2850-2950?
Wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of your stick!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2296913 - 07/07/08 02:35 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: 65BR]
|
Jeff_O
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 6673
Loc: Wetter'n Oregon
|
|
Offline
|
|
One of my thin barreled Mountain Rifles shoots great, the other, not so much.
The one that didn't was floated, bedded, and endlessly loaded for until I finally gave up and rebarreled it.
The one that shoots is NOT bedded and still has the pressure point.
Go figger!
I guess if my Montana counts as a pencil barrel then put me at 2 for 3 'cause it shoots too.
_________________________
More wag. Less bark.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2302420 - 07/10/08 07:58 AM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: guyandarifle]
|
Daveh
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5157
Loc: SE WASH STATE
|
|
Offline
|
|
DanAdair- Good to see another circle track guy... I quit buiding engines about 8-10 years ago in SE Washington - Tri-City Raceways. 20 years ago I raced the late model division in Yakima and TCR. My brother won 3 track championships in mini-stock in the late 90's.
Anyway - a factory 7shamu isn't exactly a pencil barrel.
Dave
_________________________
But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2302482 - 07/10/08 08:19 AM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: 65BR]
|
antlers
Campfire Regular
Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 322
|
|
Offline
|
|
I just can't get steady behind skinny, whippy barrels. I prefer something with a little more weight out there. It's just me. I've seen skinny barrels shoot just as accurately, under field conditions, as heavier barrels. I've also seen skinny barrels shoot just as accurately, from the bench, as heavier barrels...provided adequate time was allowed for barrel cooling. It's just a personal preference for me...I like heavier barrels. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2302544 - 07/10/08 08:48 AM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: antlers]
|
Daveh
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5157
Loc: SE WASH STATE
|
|
Offline
|
|
Like I said the factory Shamu isn't a pencil barrel in my book.
_________________________
But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2305132 - 07/11/08 02:02 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: Daveh]
|
DanAdair
Campfire Regular
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 367
Loc: Flathead County, MT.
|
|
Offline
|
|
DaveH, Cool.. I'm not the only one... I loved that job, I couldn't believe that I got a paycheck for building hot rod motors. Of course there was a lot of truck and tractor crap that paid the bills. I used to plan my weeks out so that every Friday was "Work on cool stuff day" I used to live for late winter early spring when the race engines started showing up. If you ever came over to run a Montana 200 then we've met. I was Junior Tech for the 14th-16th annual 200's. I'll never forget our first Fall Classic over in Yakima, that was a blast.
Sorry for the hi-jack...
One thing that I have noticed about pencil barrels is that they seem to prefer bullets on the heavier end of caliber than lighter. My 308's seem to shoot better with 165's, the 260 with 140's. Etc... Am I the only one?
_________________________
If at first you don't suceed, put another bullet in it
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306099 - 07/11/08 10:56 PM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: DanAdair]
|
keephuntin
Member
Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 75
|
Online
|
|
I have a 20" pencil barrel on a Ruger Lightweight in 30.06 that shoots amazingly good. Got lucky I guess. Hornady Light Mag. in 150 grain Interbond does the trick.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306815 - 07/12/08 11:18 AM
Re: Pencil barrels suck
[Re: keephuntin]
|
Eremicus
Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 9544
Loc: Placerville,CA,USA
|
|
Online
|
|
I've played around with a few "pencil barrels." I call a pencil barrel on that is long and skinny, like .55 muzzle at 22-24 inches.
What I've learned is they will shoot, provided you are willing to play around long enough to get the right combination of bullet and powder. Sometimes the primer makes a difference, and, more often, seating depth. Sometimes you get lucky right from the start. It depends on the rifle.
Not many are willing to go to that much trouble.
Another thing I've noticed is that even top quality custom barrel and installations won't shoot everything sub-MOA. While they do better than factory setups as a rule, they won't shoot every combination really well. Heavier barreled rifles are much less fussy, particularly the custom rigs.
As to shooting them in the field, I've found two thing very benefical. One is some weight forward balance. Balancing on the front guard screw works the best for me. On the other hand, you can't run fast enough to give me a light rifle that is muzzle light.
The other is a good shooting sling. There are those who think you can't hit anything with a light rifle when you are out of breath and excited. Not so. Try a good shooting sling. E
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: RickBin, SYSOP
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
18465 Members
66 Forums
189181 Topics
2323833 Posts
Max Online: 1366 @ 08/07/07 07:51 PM
|
|
|
. I can get the first two to cut each other, but then that third shot drifts a little 
...
