#2284667 - 06/30/08 01:26 PM
Africa 2008
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JJHACK
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Loc: Touchet Wa. & Ellisras South ...
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Well, ..... Not sure what more I can offer that was not covered in Edwins thread. Sure he was just but one of the 34 hunters, but his experience reflects the same kinds of things all the guys shared.
I took some awsome trail cam photo's, shot a few warthogs and varmints for myself, made some long to very long follow up tracking efforts with success on all but a single zebra.
I'm surprised that others who were there have not alreadly posted follow up comments. There were probably a dozen guys that visit this site with me this year. Funny how so many visit and read but would never post here? I get PM's and Emails all the time from folks who read and NEVER post here. I wish you guys would share some info for the others, it would be great for my business for you to tell everyone how things went!
This year I think I did see a new personal best for hunters who had more entertainment after dark then during the hunting day. I cannot imagine the investment in this trip, to "party" so hard and late that the hunting success suffers. Oh well, I want folks to have a good time. They are free to choose what that "good time" consists of for themsleves.
Then I had Edwin, the Apex of sportmanship and ethics. I've had a lot of "Edwins" in my career, and hope that my business is attractive that that kind of philosophy. Not much more enjoyable then a guy in camp with others of a like mind set. Most of the time guys come to hunt, and are serious, prepared, and dedicated the adventure. There are always a few to stir things up now and then. It's a shame that anyone would have to be actually told that there would be no drinking during the hunting day.
The weather during the season was generally bad. We had several days of high wind each week, and we had nights that were 50's one night, and frost the next night. It really screwed up the way game was moving.
Over all a lot of game was taken and the new property was a great success for us. A few things to correct during the week, but nothing that was a problem. Almost everyone, including myself really liked the remote location and the generator power. Using candles and flashlights or sitting around the fire was a really nice "feeling" for a hunting camp.
My other properties have been solid, and dependable places for very long now. One of them was shut down for renovation, and we hunted it anyway. We packed in all our own food, my cook Jamien, and the PH's. It had not been hunted yet this year due to the renovations. I sweet talked the owner to let us in for a few days. What a great time we all had there. A little rough around the edges with the construction, but the hunting was awesome!
Anyway, I'm back and can add something to the posts of others, and I'll post up some photo's. I recovered 2 270 TSX bullets the last week I was there from my 375HH and I recovered 5 165 grain TSX bullets for my 30/06. Then a few partitions from the other rifles.
The TSX are still the best bullet on the market, but the complete lack of blood trails is an ongoing concern. I had to track a number of animals a long way with only the hoof prints to go on. Sevral had absolutely no blood the whole way. Several shot with the 270 grain TSX bullets from the 375HH had no blood trail either. I love the bullets but really miss getting some blood to follow.
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#2284943 - 06/30/08 04:44 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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RastyRandyMcCraskski
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Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 22
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Congratulations, It sounds like you had a great season.
What is your opinion on why the TSX apparently doesn't produce a blood trail like a conventional bullet?
What velocities are you getting on the 165's, and what kind of speeds do you think the 180's would do?
Thanks...
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#2285192 - 06/30/08 06:58 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: RastyRandyMcCraskski]
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RAC
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 91
Loc: Homer, Louisiana
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Jim, I have been busy and haven't got around to posting pics yet. I will try and rectify that next week.
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#2285786 - 07/01/08 05:34 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: RAC]
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Labman95
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Registered: 06/21/01
Posts: 139
Loc: Wayne, PA USA
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Jim - I'm really curious re: the lack of blood trails with the TSX. I'm sure your getting exits so why do you think no blood? Since Northfork is now closed I was thinking of switching to the 270 Gr. TSX for my .375.
Tom Z.
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#2285951 - 07/01/08 07:30 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: Labman95]
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JJHACK
Campfire Guide
Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 4249
Loc: Touchet Wa. & Ellisras South ...
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I have no good explanation. It's a situation common to the TSX. We are not losing game, but simply don't get them to bleed. An Impala shot with my 30/06 ran about 180 yards. Perfect lung shot not a drop of blood the whole way to the body. I simple frail little impala shot at 50 yards too. Dead as a rock, no complaints but real easy to assume a miss without any blood, or if the guy looking did not have the determination to follow it up with the tracks alone.
They kill like crazy and are still my choice. I wish they somehow caused more blood flow. Partitions cause more bleeding, but simply don't have the consistant performance that the TSX has when shooting larger game with smaller cartridges like the 30/06. On a Blue wildebeest, zebra, or Eland for example the tsx is decisive, the Partition is marginal.
I have accepted that the single missing feature of the TSX is blood flow on many animals. Other then that is has every feature a hunter needs. When looking at other bullets they all lack something. I can settle for the lack of blood because I'm very confident in my tracking skills.
It's still the bullet of choice in my rifles. The 270 Aframe is another excellent choice in the 375HH.
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#2286105 - 07/01/08 09:45 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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HunterJim
Campfire Guide
Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 4520
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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Jim,
On the .30-'06/165 TSX wounds I can understand the hide dynamics closing the hole of the entrance wound and keeping the blood in, but are you getting an exit wound that does not bleed?
thanks...jim
_________________________
LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
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#2286175 - 07/01/08 10:29 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: HunterJim]
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JJHACK
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Loc: Touchet Wa. & Ellisras South ...
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I only recovered 6 TSX bullets from about 70 animals this year. All the rest exited. Blood trails and flow can be amazing or ZERO.
The frequency of great blood trails is limited, far more common to see nothing, or a few drops. Yes even with the exits. Quite often the entry and exit holes are so similiar in size, I have to think about the direction of the shot to recall which side of the animal was the entry.
2 of the TSX bullets this year had no remaining petals. They were just shanks. One from a Kudu breaking the front leg and stopping under the skin near the hind quarter. The shot was about 50 yards. That's a hella lotta impact force into bone at that range. No surprise. Only the shank remained. The other was from a warthog shot from a tower stand from about 60 yards. It was hit through the spine behind the head and was recovered near the nuts under the skin. It was also just a shank. It did however crush and vertabra in the spine behind the head. That is a very heavy set of bones with the giant head a Warthog has. Again no surprise.
The remaining bullets recovered look like the typical perfect propeller shaped TSX we are used to. It's been an amazing phenomina in my experience that so many just don't bleed, and others bleed as good as you could hope for.
As I said, no bullet is perfect. If I have to live with the one that has the least faults, and the best situation upon failure the TSX wins that every time. I much prefer my bullets to fail to a solid then to crumple to bits.
I have never yet seen a TSX that failed to do the job. I also ask quite a lot of them. Max loads with average impacts at 50-100 yards on game as tough as Eland, Wildebeest, Zebra, gemsbok, waterbuck, etc. This Combo has never failed to decide matters with well placed shots. Those few that have been lost seem to be due to shot placement.
I was considering dropping to the 150 this year. However with the penetration and performance I see with the 165's for 4 years straight and near 1000 animals killed with them. I simply don't see a better combination, or want to risk the experiment time. This combo simply works as near perfect as I have ever seen.
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#2286207 - 07/01/08 10:45 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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daddie63
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Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 118
Loc: California
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Do you think the tipped TSX may do more internal damage?
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#2286254 - 07/01/08 11:22 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: daddie63]
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JJHACK
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No, I don't think the Tipped TSX provides anything over the standard version. Well maybe that the tip can break off and be lost? I have had that happen lots of times with the Interbonds and Ballistic tips.
It's my gut feel that the tip was added to help people feel better about the projectile, then the actual performance it would add.
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#2286385 - 07/01/08 12:42 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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daddie63
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Yep, that sounds about right... Thanks JJHACK.
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#2286389 - 07/01/08 12:44 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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jorgeI
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Registered: 06/20/03
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Loc: Orange Park, Florida
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Hi Jim, welcome back! looking forward to more thorough debriefs of the season. Anyhow the TTSX is reported to have enhanced capabilities when it comes to the bullet opening up. A friend of mine used his one a mule deer hunt this past fall with impressive exit wounds and super blood trails. He whacked a deer at an incredibly long range and he says you could see the blood trail through the exit wound using his binos. Iv'e yet to try them myself, but I am convering a lot of my calibers to that bullet. My only experience so far with the regular TSX has been on deer this year. I used my 7mm Weatherby and 140gr TSX @3300 and the internal damage and blood trails were massive. I was impressed and they are consistently the most accurate bullets I've ver used. jorge
_________________________
" In essence, the democratic political platform is socialist, anti-capitalist, pro-abortion, anti-gun and secular, and in my view,and just like Bristoe anti-American."......*ME*
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#2286424 - 07/01/08 01:03 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: jorgeI]
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JJHACK
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Sometimes they are great, sometimes there is nothing. I would not make a statement on the performance of a bullet, or anything for that matter with low resolution. When I see 100's of game shot then the reprtable results are meaningful. I have seen blood depart the body on the exit side of an animal with the TSX while looking through the glasses, also seen the side of an animal instantly red with blood at the shot. Those few events alone would make me believe that are everything anyone could want.
Unfortunately they were not my only events to base an opinion on. For every spectacular blood trail there are a dozen that leave nothing. I would also not base any performance of big game on a deer. They are the weakest and easiest to kill of just about any big game of equal size on earth. Agian there may be a tough example from time to time, but when you shoot a 100 and then see or shoot an equal number of similar sized game of other species it's clear that they are quite limited in their will to live. Kudu are nearly identical. Anything in the chest will kill a Kudu pretty quick. Compare that with a Wildebeast, gemsbok, or Zebra and you have a whole different will to live perspective.
American Mtn Goats and Elk are tough as nails as well, far closer in the " will to live" of African Game then a Deer is.
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#2286604 - 07/01/08 03:08 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: daddie63]
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driftwood
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Registered: 04/09/06
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I have shot Elk with a TSX and the exit hole is always large and the animals bleed profusely. Not sure what the explanation is for the African game, doesn't make sense. Phil Lozano on his web site at go-on-safari.com talks about the damage the TSX does on the game he has seen killed in Tanzania. HE doesn't particularly favor them for that reason and that they do at times act like a solid.
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#2286621 - 07/01/08 03:21 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: driftwood]
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JJHACK
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They are a solid............A solid that opens a bit, slightly expanding solids may be more accurate.
They are not the expanding bullets that a Woodleigh, Aframe, Northfork, Bear claw are. But they exit most of the time. They penetrate better then anything but a pure solid.
It's as fail resistant as any expanding projectile can be made. People just need to decide what kind of failure they would prefer before they choose.
Fail to open and work as a solid?
Jacket core seperation?
Crumble and go to pieces?
Have the rear core squirt out?
loss of the front half?
Lose half or more of the weight?
Fail to exit most of the time?
Explode on contact at 50 meters?
Fail to open at 400 yards?
Lots of types of failure possible. For my time and money I'll take my shooting skill to place the bullet where I want to and choose the fail to open and work as a soild every time. At least then I know I hit the organs I was wanting to even if it's with a bore diameter projectile.
Others may have different opinions. I also know that with the TSX you don't ever assume a miss and leave the site. You keep looking for the tracks and follow them to the dead animal! That education took a little time, but once you realize that not every hit results in a bloody trail to follow, you start finding game you may have assumed a miss in the past.
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#2286761 - 07/01/08 04:41 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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jorgeI
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Registered: 06/20/03
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Loc: Orange Park, Florida
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Jim one of the few things we don't agree on is the concept of African game being tougher to die than a similar animal here on this continent. I just don't think impalas die any slower than deer or kudu than elk. All the animals I've ver killed in Africa (around 20) except buffalo died with one shot and either DRT or wandered less than 100 yards. The animal my friend shot was a 200 plus lb mule deer at close to 400 lazered yards. Huge exit wound with a blood stream that you could easily see. jorge
_________________________
" In essence, the democratic political platform is socialist, anti-capitalist, pro-abortion, anti-gun and secular, and in my view,and just like Bristoe anti-American."......*ME*
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#2286789 - 07/01/08 04:52 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: jorgeI]
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Jaywalker
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Registered: 11/07/03
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Loc: Virginia
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It appears to me the best "no blood trail" explanation is that the long TSX is opening at entry, then turning over and either tearing off its expanded petals or bending them back into place and exiting base first. A shorter bullet might help.
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#2286801 - 07/01/08 05:00 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: jorgeI]
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JJHACK
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That's Okay, not everyone sees things the same. One thing I do require before I have a public opinion is a lot of events to confirm my feelings. I too have seen blood spray out the exit side of game hit with the TSX It happens. My opinions require high resolution before I commit to an opinion I would debate. I don't take another author, or buddies opinion as my own. I gotta see the events in high numbers, or I simply won't offer a serious opinion.
I doubt anyone with even minimal experince would dissagree that a kudu has much less drive to travel and survive after being shot then the Blue wildebeast or Zebra. So there is a significant difference in how "tough" animals within Africa are much less a Deer!
Would anyone argue that a Mtn Goat the same body weight as a deer is just as easy to kill as a deer? Nobody I know that has hunted any number of both species would agree to that!
Herd animals are much tougher to stop then individual animals. I don't think anyone who has hunted large numbers of both and has seen hundreds of them shot would debate that. Herd animals run dead on thier feet for a very long way to stay with the herd. Lone animals like a Kudu or a Deer tend to lay up and die with not anywhere near the travel time/ or distance.
This comes from my personal experience, nothing I have read or heard from other people. I trust what I know and have seen first hand. jorge you and I have been friends for a long time, this is not a "dig" or debate with you. I just know and base my opinions on what I've seen!
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#2286906 - 07/01/08 05:52 PM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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Shag
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Registered: 09/27/04
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Loc: Just North Of Vancouver, USA
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Welcome back.
How many animals were shot with Partitions?
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#2287498 - 07/02/08 04:50 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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jorgeI
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 4113
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
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No offense taken. Like I've stated, I've nowhere the experience you and a lot of other guys that post here have and quite a few see it my way as well. My experience with the TSX is limited, but I've seen enough. On "borrowing" experience from others, I don't have to buy a Yugo to know it was a POS. Reading about it was all I needed to make my own conclusions. Cheers, jorge
_________________________
" In essence, the democratic political platform is socialist, anti-capitalist, pro-abortion, anti-gun and secular, and in my view,and just like Bristoe anti-American."......*ME*
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#2287599 - 07/02/08 06:20 AM
Re: Africa 2008
[Re: JJHACK]
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goodnews
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Loc: Iowa
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JJ-
Interesting observations with the numbers you see. I took only seven beasts last summer with the 270-TSX at ~2650 fps and only a big mare Burchells stopped one, picture-perfect too, opened to about .70 cal., symmetrical with no petals broken off.
A big waterbuck also stopped one that I don't count because it hit brush 20 yds in front of him and turned sideways where I found it in that attitude under the skin on the opposite shoulder.
On the other five however ranging from warthog to kudu to impala I don't remember a lot of blood either although with that small a sample I didn't draw any conclusions...other than all were stopped where they stood and went down immediately. I was very pleased with that load and it is also so accurate in my 375 it makes me wince.
Gdv
_________________________
"Content to live and willing to die....Hoping to do a little good." John Adams, amidst the turmoil of his presidency, Christmas Day of 1798, in a letter to his wife, Abigail.
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