#2286922 - 07/01/08 06:02 PM
Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
|
AlaskaCub
Campfire Guide
Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 2878
Loc: Interior Alaska
|
Offline
|
|
Just curious if someone knows what the magic behind Federals High Energy loads is. I cant understand how they can get a 180 grain Partition to fly 80 fps faster than a 165 TSX. I then glanced at some of their other HE loads and it damm near looks like Magic. Rumor tells me they use a blend of powders, I know when I was working up loads for my 300 WSM I couldn't come close to duplicating velocities from their factory stuff using the same bullets. So what gives?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2286931 - 07/01/08 06:09 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: AlaskaCub]
|
antlers
Campfire Regular
Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 322
|
|
Offline
|
|
Just curious if someone knows what the magic behind Federals High Energy loads is. I cant understand how they can get a 180 grain Partition to fly 80 fps faster than a 165 TSX. I then glanced at some of their other HE loads and it damm near looks like Magic. Rumor tells me they use a blend of powders, I know when I was working up loads for my 300 WSM I couldn't come close to duplicating velocities from their factory stuff using the same bullets. So what gives?
They are compressed loads, and they use special powders. Their HE loads are impressive.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2286942 - 07/01/08 06:19 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: AlaskaCub]
|
Lou_270
Campfire Regular
Registered: 03/07/03
Posts: 792
Loc: Dallas, TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
They did an article on it in one of the NRA gun mags. It stated they use a special "cool" burning powder that they drop from a "considerable" height. They then tamp the powder through the case mouth with a rod. They said the bigger the case mouth was with respect to the body the better they could tamp it (why something like a WSM would not be a good candidate, but 30-06 is). They add powder, tamp, add powder, tamp to get the compression they want. I saw a separate article where it stated the powder was blended to extend the pressure curve or something along those lines so don't think it's them simply dumping and super compressing common slow burners as some on this sight have inferred in past.
Lou
Edited by Lou_270 (07/01/08 06:20 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287024 - 07/01/08 07:00 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: AlaskaCub]
|
Lee24
Campfire Guide
Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 4667
|
|
Offline
|
|
3 different powders, compressed, in layers, is how they used to do it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287163 - 07/01/08 08:09 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: AlaskaCub]
|
RastyRandyMcCraskski
Member
Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 22
|
|
Offline
|
|
Aren't they getting the same trajectory as the conventional loads?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287169 - 07/01/08 08:12 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: RastyRandyMcCraskski]
|
BCBrian
Campfire Guide
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 3702
Loc: Vernon BC Canada
|
Online
|
|
All to gain the kind of speed I can thow a baseball at...
Pure sillyness...
_________________________
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Dance like nobody's watching. Love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening. Live like it's heaven on earth." Mark Twain
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287277 - 07/01/08 09:19 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: varmintsinc]
|
RatherBHuntin
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 301
|
|
Offline
|
|
Good Point, I clocked my 140 grain light magnum 7mm08 hornady ammo at 2900+. My own loads safely topped out around 2750. I wish I could figure out how to safely do what they do with the high energy/light magnum ammo. Not that it makes a hill of beans difference when I've never taken a deer over 150 yards away. Although if I was taking a large animal for calliber size, I wouldn't hesitate to try the light mag/high energy factory ammo.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287279 - 07/01/08 09:20 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: varmintsinc]
|
Klikitarik
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 2388
Loc: Alaska
|
|
Offline
|
|
I think the answer to the question about whether one needs the extra FPs is whether one sees value in a 300 mag over the 30-06.
It seems, as far as manufacturing goes, they also use a special block which supports the cases during powder compression to avoid expansion on said cases, a problem which can be had when compressing powders when seating bullets.
FWIW, I have discovered that it is possible to do some serious powder insertions by using a drop tube to initially align the powder grains, then barely seating a bullet, then vibrating the cartridge before doing the final seating. That still doesn't make a HE cartridge from ordinary cartridges, but it does provide some useful loads if you tend toward tinkering.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287372 - 07/01/08 10:49 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: Lou_270]
|
aspade
Member
Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 97
|
|
Offline
|
|
They said the bigger the case mouth was with respect to the body the better they could tamp it (why something like a WSM would not be a good candidate, but 30-06 is).
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe that's the primary reason.
New cartridges like the WSMs are all max loads to make them look better than the old caliber you already had. So there isn't all that much left on the table for a compressed load to pick up. If it's just 70 fps why bother?
While the old tried and true is loaded down to make the new load of the week look better, and also to save money - 85% load density with a fast powder saves a couple grains over 95% density with a slower one. That's a couple pounds of powder per pallet.
Federal makes a HE .270, not exactly the largemouth bass of metallic cartridges. Hornady loads HE 6mms and quarter bores.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287391 - 07/01/08 11:12 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: aspade]
|
Dancing Bear
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/26/05
Posts: 644
Loc: Portland, Ore
|
|
Offline
|
|
Somewhere I read that the 338 HE 225 TBBC was achieved with R-19 only. Does anyone know if this is true?
I can get pretty close and stay within book loads for my '06 and my 338.
I can't touch the 308 HE load in my .308 and sty within book.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287393 - 07/01/08 11:26 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: Dancing Bear]
|
AlaskaCub
Campfire Guide
Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 2878
Loc: Interior Alaska
|
|
Offline
|
|
Shoot even with Federals non HE stuff I could never get close to it with handloads. I chrono'd over 3200 fps with a 165 TSX loaded by Federal in my 300 WSM with no pressure signs at all. I couldn't touch that without a frozen bolt with handloads and still was 70-80 fps off. The only reason I tried the HE Fed stuff in my 06 was because seveal guys commented how well it shot and worked on game. Why would a guy want 2880 fps over 2700??? Why the hell not, the fact that it shoots .5" groups just makes it sweeter! Its got to be more than a compressed load they are using, has to be some sort of special powders me thinks.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287398 - 07/01/08 11:33 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: AlaskaCub]
|
todbartell
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 801
Loc: BC, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
i remember pulling Federal HE 30-06 165 gr TBBC ammo, it had 70 or 72 grains of powder in it. Looked like ball powder, it was clumpy, almost like it was wet. Chrony'd @ 2900 f/s in a 22" Husqy
_________________________
Rock you like a Hurricane
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2287677 - 07/02/08 07:06 AM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: todbartell]
|
horse1
Campfire Regular
Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 1446
Loc: In the vicinity of dandihood
|
|
Offline
|
|
180gn TTBC 300Win ammo chrono'd 3250FPS for me from a stock 26" SS Model 70.
_________________________
Aim High................That's a long shot!!!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2288071 - 07/02/08 11:06 AM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: horse1]
|
rembo
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/08/00
Posts: 1272
Loc: Alberta, CANADA
|
|
Offline
|
|
The only really "hot" factory ammo I ran over the chrony was Remington Safari Grade 225 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws in 35 Whelen...they clocked in the high 2700's..one hit 2811fps.....that was smokin' from my 24" Whelen.
speaking of factory ammo. I just picked up a Sako TRG-s M995 in 30-06 and I plan to try some of the "premium"(?) factory stuff...what have guys been using in the '06?...
Edited by rembo (07/02/08 11:09 AM)
_________________________
"after the bullet leaves the barrel it doesn't care what headstamp was on the case"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2288305 - 07/02/08 12:43 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: rembo]
|
Lee24
Campfire Guide
Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 4667
|
|
Offline
|
|
180-gr Federal HE chronographed at 2,920 out of my 24-inch M-700 BDL SS.
Haven't clocked it yet, but the 150-gr 7x64 Norma ammo is hot.
I can tell by shooting it right after 150-gr .270 Win loads.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2288374 - 07/02/08 01:09 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: Lee24]
|
1minute
Campfire Guide
Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2563
Loc: Burns/Hines, Oregon, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
I was punching 180's out of a 30-378 right at 3500 with H870. Of course with my luck they don't make it any more. Lots of data showed some fast velocities with lower pressures than other powders. That load was worked up in winter months and was just fine through 4 elk seasons and 2 trips to Alaska.
Two years ago though I went out in 100 degee weather to check zero and had a bolt lift issue. I did not have chrony along on that trip. With a time shortage I went home, dumped 2 grains out of each cartridge, checked zero, and went hunting. I still need to chrony that load and maybe get back out and see if I can work something up to 3500 with maybe some BMG or Reloader 25.
_________________________
1minute
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2289377 - 07/02/08 11:42 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: AlaskaCub]
|
macrabbit
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: C. Calif
|
|
Online
|
|
Oh. High ENERGY. I thought some real HE rounds were coming to market. Never mind.
_________________________
Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. -Ambassador Delenn, Babylon 5
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2292350 - 07/04/08 02:21 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: macrabbit]
|
rahtreelimbs
Campfire Regular
Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1187
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
|
Online
|
|
I was told it was very slow powder dropped and compressed 3 times. It was my understanding that is the same powder throughout.
I do know, straight from Hornady that the new Marlin 308MX and the Ruger 300 and 338 RCM use a ball powder. Apparently ball powders are more easily treated to slow the burn process or something to that effect!!!
_________________________
Always remember to use a Serious chunk of Whoopass.Later, Rich !!! 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2292838 - 07/04/08 09:09 PM
Re: Federal HE Ammo...How do they do it??
[Re: rahtreelimbs]
|
fluffy
Member
Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 218
Loc: minnesota
|
|
Offline
|
|
I bought some once fired 30-06 brass online,which had a few HE rounds.They were obviously very high pressure loads,as evidenced by the ejector marks on the case head.I decided not to re-use any of them.
_________________________
I dont know what makes you so stupid,but its really working
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: RickBin, SYSOP
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
18464 Members
66 Forums
189180 Topics
2323802 Posts
Max Online: 1366 @ 08/07/07 07:51 PM
|
|
|
