#2306831 - 07/12/08 11:28 AM
375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
|
colorado
Campfire Regular
Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 255
|
Offline
|
|
Hi all, I'm about 3 months from decision time, and I just visited my gunsmith. I have a CZ Safari Classic in 375 H&H. He really liked the gun, is going to put a more subdued darker oil African style finish on the stock and recut the checkering. The rifle is already dual cross-bolted by CZ, glassbedded and has an extra recoil lug installed on the barrel by AHR amongst other things. He thought the stock was so nice and there would be a lot of work and cost in replacing the sights, barrel band etc, money that could be put towards an African hunt. My CZ 375 H&H Safari Classic weighs 11 lbs with scope, sling, etc. and 10.25 lbs without.
He recommended 2 possible options (1 and 3) but I had spoken about option 2 earlier and he has the reamer.
1. Leave it as a 375 H&H (which I probably won't do lol), even though he showed me a very nice elephant and cape buffalo one of his customers had shot with a 375 H&H.
2. Rechamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum (which is moving up on my radar, I would really like to see what those 350g Woodleigh Protected Points will do at 2550 fps).
3. Have Clearwater reboring, rebore my rifle to 470 Capstick (which would mean I would shorten the barrel to 22"). He highly recommended LaBounty reboring (now clearwater) saying they were a good option if the current barrel shoots well which it does.
All of these options involve less work (and dollars) for my gunsmith, but I really appreciate him giving me honest and helpful advice.
Anyway I'm leaning towards the 375 Weatherby opton, due to cost, less recoil than the 475 Capstick (since the Capstick would be lighter than my 375 Weatherby due to losing 3" of barrel), and probably more useful for my North American hunting (elk, deer, and hopefully a big Alaskan Brown) as well as being enough gun for cape buffalo.
Regards,
Chuck
Edited by colorado (07/12/08 11:29 AM)
_________________________
"We deal in lead, friend"
Steve McQueen, "The Magnificent Seven"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306851 - 07/12/08 11:45 AM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: colorado]
|
tightloop
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 840
Loc: Spring, Tx
|
|
Offline
|
|
If you plan on going to a different caliber, I am LOST with any thought of reboring the bbl...much better choice, IMO, to just have a quality after market bbl put on by Kreiger, Lilja, etc than rebore. Also why Capstick 470? Great writer, questionable cartridge...with LOTS of quality .45 dangerous game bullets on the market why put yourself in a position of limited and expensive bullets...If bigger is better, go 458Lott...kill anything on THIS earth...if you just want to have an unusual chambering, can still think of many I would rather choose than the 470 Capstick. IMO... don't mean to rain on your parade, but those are my thoughts.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306853 - 07/12/08 11:46 AM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: colorado]
|
muledeer
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 5221
Loc: Ketchikan, AK, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
That's as pretty as the wood that came on my .404 Jeffery CZ...which is saying something.
If you simply must screw around with it, rechamber it to .375 Weatherby and lop 2" off the barrel. Replacing the front sight, of course.
I despise the 25" barrel they come with -- I like the 23" on my Ruger African a lot better. Plus you don't need a 12-lb rifle, even in a relatively heavy caliber.
Incidently, I run 350 gr Woodleighs in my .404 at 2500 fps with ease, and they are relatively easy shooters. And accurate. I used 400 gr Barnes Banded Solids to shoot my Cape buffalo. In the nose. At 18 yards, squared up on us. Bullet exited the back of the skull about 3" below the horn boss. He didn't charge.
Simple is better.
Regarding Jim Dubell and Clearwater Reboring -- I had them rebarrel a Ruger RSI to .338 Federal, and couldn't have been happier with the work or the service. Jim is a standup guy and he and his crew do good work, and I think reboring a good barrel, like the CZ's, is an excellent option and fully the equivalent of buying a new custom barrel. Cheaper too, if that matters. But I still think rechambering is the right answer, in this case  .
Dennis
Edited by muledeer (07/12/08 11:49 AM)
Edit Reason: m instead of ,
_________________________
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306899 - 07/12/08 12:12 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: muledeer]
|
colorado
Campfire Regular
Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 255
|
|
Offline
|
|
Hi tightloop, I thought the same about putting a new barrel on rather than reboring, but Clearwater reboring seems to have an excellent reputation, not only online but with my gunsmith (Kevin Weaver) who has had several customers do it as well and have been uniformly happy with it. Kevin thought that the standard Krieger 475 number 6 contour would be too large in diameter for my stock, and I'm not about to restock my rifle. Also there's a cost in new sights, barrel band, extra recoil lug and reglass bedding which my rifle already has. I thought about the 458 Lott but don't want to chamber it for a round I could've bought my CZ in the first place (kind of like men not asking for directions ...)
And Muledeer I appreciate the advice, and yes I must "screw with it". I had a sweet Rem 700 BDL in 270 I always wanted to rebarrel with a Shilen barrel to 270 Wby Mag. That 270 accounted for a lot of elk, deer, black bear and one grizzly and I never did rebarrel it (it's now my son's rifle). This is probably my last rifle, so I want it to be a bit different, but reasonable (something I can afford to shoot and get dies and bullets for) and be enough gun for cape buffalo and Alaskan Brown bears.
Anyway elk season here in Colorado is in early October, and I'll be doing something with my rifle by Thanksgiving.
Thanks for all of the advice so far,
Chuck
_________________________
"We deal in lead, friend"
Steve McQueen, "The Magnificent Seven"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306901 - 07/12/08 12:13 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: muledeer]
|
AussieGunWriter
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 1876
|
|
Offline
|
|
I fear you are taking for granted that which you have?
Enjoy it and wear it out. It will be a treasure trove of memories and expeditions to pass down the line.
JW
_________________________
What I offer, is yours to keep, yours to use, yours to ignore. The freedom to choose, is what matters to me most.
Regrets are confirmations that we got smarter.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306912 - 07/12/08 12:18 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: colorado]
|
tightloop
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 840
Loc: Spring, Tx
|
|
Offline
|
|
If you feel like you must do something with it, make it a 460 G&A...do anything the Capstick will...mine pushes a 500gr @a full 2400 fps burning 88gr of IMR4064 over a Fed 215M..Built on a mag length MarkX action in a laminated Bishop stock Douglas #7 bbl...Peep rear and post front...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2306974 - 07/12/08 01:05 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: tightloop]
|
colorado
Campfire Regular
Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 255
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks tightloop, I'll look up the 460 G&A
chuck
_________________________
"We deal in lead, friend"
Steve McQueen, "The Magnificent Seven"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2307315 - 07/12/08 04:37 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: colorado]
|
UtahLefty
Campfire Kahuna
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 15780
Loc: Northern Utah
|
Online
|
|
the 375 W and the 470C are quite different beasties.
I guess I'd decide how big of a gun you want as a first step.
If you decide larger than a 375, given what I'm paying for 470 components compared to the commonly available 458(s) I'm wondering where the idea came from ??
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2307392 - 07/12/08 05:23 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: UtahLefty]
|
colorado
Campfire Regular
Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 255
|
|
Offline
|
|
I'm leaning towards the 375 Weatherby Lefty. Less recoil, less modifications (and much cheaper) to my rifle. Flexible for both North American and African game, and I have 100 Woodleigh 350s left!
Thanks,
Chuck
_________________________
"We deal in lead, friend"
Steve McQueen, "The Magnificent Seven"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2307403 - 07/12/08 05:28 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: colorado]
|
UtahLefty
Campfire Kahuna
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 15780
Loc: Northern Utah
|
|
Online
|
|
Given what you're starting with that would be my choice .
I'd rather get a 404 or other 458 or some such later for an over 40 were I you
(but I have two 375s, a 416 Rigby and a 470 NE so who am I to lecture ??)
Edited by UtahLefty (07/12/08 05:31 PM)
Edit Reason: added
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2307762 - 07/12/08 08:18 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: UtahLefty]
|
340mag
Campfire Regular
Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 1233
|
|
Offline
|
|
OK I just got to ask??
whats so darn wrong with just leaving it a 375 H&H and buying a bunch of components and spending the next three months practicing a good deal? from everything Ive seen and read a cool shot with a good 375 H&H and a supply of quality 300 grain bullets can kill anything that walks.... why waste the time you can,t get back, waiting on a differant rifle... PRACTICE and get good with that 375 H&H!.....I suggest its better to be an excellent shot with a 375 H&H than a guy dragging a new rifle out into the field with very limited time to get good with it!
BTW if your set on a new rifle why not get a similar CZ in 458 LOTT, at least then your battery of near twins will feel and work the same up to a point, and your spending cash on a second rifle, not dumping cash into modifying one where your very unlikely to get most of that value back if its sold later while with two rifles your much more likely to get a higher percentage of your up front costs back.
ITS likely youll spend more than 50%-75% of a new rifle cost modifying the current rifle and it won,t increase the value to 150%-175%
Edited by 340mag (07/12/08 08:34 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2307803 - 07/12/08 08:42 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: 340mag]
|
colorado
Campfire Regular
Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 255
|
|
Offline
|
|
I've put 200 rounds through my 375 H&H so far since I got it in middle May. I'll probably have 300 more rounds through it by hunting season in October. So I guess I'm already practicing and working on getting good with it. If I rechamber/rebarrel it, I'll have it done over the winter. I really don't want a suite of rifles, just one that will do what I need. I may well leave it as a 375 H&H (my son Eric says that's what I should do and I hate it when he's right lol), but I may rechamber to 375 Weatherby. I've kinda given up on the 470 Capstick idea.
Cheers,
Chuck
Edited by colorado (07/13/08 10:18 AM)
_________________________
"We deal in lead, friend"
Steve McQueen, "The Magnificent Seven"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2308746 - 07/13/08 11:58 AM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: colorado]
|
AussieGunWriter
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 1876
|
|
Offline
|
|
If you leave it as is, half the camp would want to own it.
If you change it, the rifles' fan club will diminish.
JW
_________________________
What I offer, is yours to keep, yours to use, yours to ignore. The freedom to choose, is what matters to me most.
Regrets are confirmations that we got smarter.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2308940 - 07/13/08 01:46 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: AussieGunWriter]
|
358mag
Member
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 102
Loc: New Mexico
|
|
Offline
|
|
If you re-chamber it to the 375 Wby, you can still use 375 H H ammo or brass.All a 375 Wby is a improved 375 HH,so now you can have the best of both worlds.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2309091 - 07/13/08 03:21 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: 340mag]
|
SuperCub
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 1646
Loc: SJ/NB Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
OK I just got to ask??
whats so darn wrong with just leaving it a 375 H&H and buying a bunch of components and spending the next three months practicing a good deal?
I agree!!
I'd leave the chamber as is and spend that money on a good tune-up, shorten the bbl to 22", refinish the stock and a bunch of reloading components.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2383634 - 08/21/08 02:32 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: SuperCub]
|
vigillinus
Campfire Guide
Registered: 03/18/02
Posts: 2501
Loc: Manhattan
|
|
Offline
|
|
Just reading Terry Weiland 2006 "Dangerous Game Rifles" at p. 146 tells story that PH Robin Hurt's .375 W'y jammed solid on a very hot day, "when we finally reached camp we had to soak the action in cold water, then pound the bolt handle with a mallet to get it open". Blames max Weatherby factory load and untapered cartridge case.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2383789 - 08/21/08 03:56 PM
Re: 375 Weatherby Magnum or 470 Capstick
[Re: UtahLefty]
|
atkinson
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 1769
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Too much emphisis is put on this caliber crap! Putting a properly construced bullet in the right spot is the key to killing an animal and the 375 H&H can and will do that if you do your part and if you can shoot. So will the 375 Wby or any improved version.
I like the .375 H&H, 416 Rem, and .404 Jefferys and I shoot a double rifle in 450-400 and have for years..My latest wonder is the .416/375 Ruger wildcat and its a clone of the 416 Rem. I used most of the bigger bores at one time, but I shoot the above more accurately for the most part and they have served me well enough that I don't feel the need for the bigger bores..
Whatever option you take is fine as the calibers you mention all work on anything on this planet..Do whatever makes you feel good.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: RickBin, SYSOP
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
19391 Members
65 Forums
204871 Topics
2527837 Posts
Max Online: 1366 @ 08/07/07 07:51 PM
|
|
|
