#2358442 - 08/08/08 04:37 AM
Might be a Medium Bore!
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Otis
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I have a 98 GEW in 9x57, the whole reciever was case colored hardened. Its such a nice old express rifle. It has a proof mark of a crown and St. M on the shoulder of the barrel. The bore slugs out .357 and shoots .358 250 gr. RN bullets fine. I was just wondering if anyone had some original loading data on this cartridge. An old Lyman manual shows some cast bullet reloading data. As it has fixed sights, I have to load to the sights. Some original loading data would make it easier for a place to start.
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#2358602 - 08/08/08 06:44 AM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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HawkI
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Ken Waters' Pet Loads has some, I believe. I'll try to check.
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#2358622 - 08/08/08 06:57 AM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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EZEARL
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Registered: 01/02/08
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Don't know if this will help or not. Found ONE load for the 9x57R in an old VIHTAVUORI reloading data guide:
9x57R/250gr Speer SP/N140 powder-47.1gr/2210fps 10'
I checked Speer's web and they don't list that bullet. If I come across any other info I'll pass it on.
til later
Just found this:
http:/www.huntamerica.com/www.threads/showflat.php?Number=358592
Also read where guys were using a Lee sizing die to make .358 bullets useable in the 9x57.
Edited by EZEARL (08/08/08 07:24 AM)
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#2359837 - 08/08/08 06:45 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: EZEARL]
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HawkI
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Sorry Otis, its for a 9X56; pretty close, but not the same.
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#2360081 - 08/08/08 09:10 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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whelennut
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50 grs of IMR 4064 should give you 2400 fps with a 250 gr bullet, according to PO Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders
whelennut
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#2360194 - 08/08/08 10:54 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: whelennut]
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Otis
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Whelennut, which hand book is that load in. I have the 1964 Shooter and handloaders pocket manuel. My Dad has the two book handbook. I didn't see it in my book. I will have to look at my Dads.
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#2360254 - 08/09/08 01:25 AM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: whelennut]
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Vic_in_Va
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Registered: 05/30/02
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50 grs of IMR 4064 should give you 2400 fps with a 250 gr bullet, according to PO Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders
whelennut
And that load sounds awful Whelen-ish, which speaks for itself..
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#2365029 - 08/11/08 08:02 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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whelennut
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Otis,
My two volume set was printed back in 1979.
The info you want is in Volume 1, page 470.
They also list the 200 gr. bullet at 2165 fps with 45 grs. of IMR 4064.
Also listed is the 275 gr. at 2160 fps using 46 grs. of IMR 4064.
Caution! These are the maximum loads listed and should be reduced by 5% and worked up carefully watching for pressure signs. Blah! Blah! Blah!
whelennut
_________________________
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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#2365298 - 08/12/08 02:28 AM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: whelennut]
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Con
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Otis,
I'd be careful of an P.O. Ackley data. Use case capacity as your guide, if its greater than a 358Win, use top 358Win loads and work upwards. The 9.3x57 load data would also be a start ... but a similar weight projectile in your smaller 9mm will have a greater bearing surface, so you've got to be careful.
Cheers...
Con
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#2377268 - 08/18/08 12:05 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Con]
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muledeer
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Registered: 06/20/01
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Agreed. P.O. was a trifle...ambitious...in his load data.
I have a 9x57, and a 9.3x57, and would suggest not trying to make Whelens out of either.
Cartridges of the World (COTW) gives 9x57 loads of 44 gr 3031 with a 250 gr bullet for 2260 fps, barrel length unspecified; 43 gr of 3031 with a 280 gr bullet for 2030 fps; and 46 gr of 4064 with 280 gr bullet for 2045 fps. Factory Kynoch 245 gr load is cited at 2150 fps. I have 11 boxes of those Kynoch loads; one of these days I'm going to run some over the chrony to see what they give me.
I've not tried 4064, but have worked up to 50 gr of IMR 4320 with Hornady's 200 gr RN for 2236 fps and good accuracy. I got 2228 fps with the same bullet and 50 gr of Reloder 15; 47 gr of 15 with the Hornady 250 RN yielded 2074 fps. None of these loads showed any pressure signs in my rifle, but this is a case where working up from well below is somewhere beyond prudent.
I love these old rifles and have several, but am under no illusions about trying to hot-rod one of them.
Otis, how about a pic  ?
Dennis
_________________________
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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#2377388 - 08/18/08 01:11 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: muledeer]
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Otis
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I would love to show them off to the campers. I just happen have pics of the 9x57, and 9.3x62 on this laptop. I just don't know where to send them to a URL and all that mess! Wish they had a browse option here. Plus I am just trying to make these rifles shoot as they did when they were designed. If I could load 22LR I wouldn't try to make them 22 MAGS either. If I wanted a Whelen, I would build one. Besides, I have a 338/06 IA that out does the Whelen in every bullet weight in each repected cartridge. Last and not least, the 9x57 Mauser is a "real smallring Mauser" as someone mentioned in an earlier thread. I'm sure it would hold it. I don't know how everytime some mentions a certain caliber in a certain rifle, if its old or what ever, why everyone has to interject there doubts about if it could can handle it or what. I guess it is no one wants there dog to loose the race or something! I wouldn't hesitate to use P.O. Ackley's info, he forgot more than most of us will ever know!
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#2377398 - 08/18/08 01:17 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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Otis
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I think I failed to mention I have shot this rifle and reloaded some for it. I was just trying to find out what it originally was said to have preformed at! I shoot it when I am home, I am just really looking for some cast bullet moulds and what the loading tables were for it. We have been using starting loads for the Whelen, and the shoot a bit high! Thanks for all the interest though.
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#2377442 - 08/18/08 01:42 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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muledeer
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I would love to show them off to the campers. I just happen have pics of the 9x57, and 9.3x62 on this laptop. I just don't know where to send them to a URL and all that mess! Wish they had a browse option here. Plus I am just trying to make these rifles shoot as they did when they were designed. If I could load 22LR I wouldn't try to make them 22 MAGS either. If I wanted a Whelen, I would build one. Besides, I have a 338/06 IA that out does the Whelen in every bullet weight in each repected cartridge. Last and not least, the 9x57 Mauser is a "real smallring Mauser" as someone mentioned in an earlier thread. I'm sure it would hold it. I don't know how everytime some mentions a certain caliber in a certain rifle, if its old or what ever, why everyone has to interject there doubts about if it could can handle it or what. I guess it is no one wants there dog to loose the race or something! I wouldn't hesitate to use P.O. Ackley's info, he forgot more than most of us will ever know!
Email them to me and I will post them for you-- my email address is in my profile. But all you have to do is open a Photobucket account, put the pics there, then copy and past the "IMG" address Photobucket gives you.
Not trying to "keep my dog from losing the race" -- but am a little cautious about suggesting load data for a possibly century-old rifle I haven't personally examined. Two rifles that came out of the Mauserwerke 100 years ago may have had slightly different care over the intervening years...  .
Your .338-06 AI will have a tough time handling 320-gr Woodleigh's .
I used to own an Ackley-barreled rifle, back when Mr. Ackley was still building rifles, and it was a superbly accurate rifle. However -- he didn't use pressure testing equipment and didn't have ready access to chronograph technology like we have today. Powder formulations were also different then, even if the same brand identifiers are used. No question he "knew more" than most on this board -- though likely not all -- but I'm not likely to suffer blind allegiance to information developed by anyone half a century ago, be it P.O. Ackley or Elmer Keith. Too much has changed in the years between to make that a viable practice -- in my opinion.
Your mileage may vary, however, and that is your right.
Dennis
_________________________
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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#2377466 - 08/18/08 01:55 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: muledeer]
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Otis
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Could be your right, maybe I'm to old the run with you guys. I aint never been blind, but what people write in magazines is most word for word from what someone said fifty years ago. Seems you are up on all them new alphabet bullets and freshman powders, I thought they gave more FPS and less chamber pressure!. I will try to deal with thing as old as I am. I thought I was almost fifty, not a half a century old! I still ride mules too!
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#2377664 - 08/18/08 04:03 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: Otis]
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muledeer
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Registered: 06/20/01
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Could be your right, maybe I'm to old the run with you guys. I aint never been blind, but what people write in magazines is most word for word from what someone said fifty years ago. Seems you are up on all them new alphabet bullets and freshman powders, I thought they gave more FPS and less chamber pressure!. I will try to deal with thing as old as I am. I thought I was almost fifty, not a half a century old! I still ride mules too!
Well...if you're almost 50 that makes you maybe close to ten years younger than I am...
Your rifle is likely a stronger-than-Vulcan's-Forge dandy, and you're likely a skookum handloader. But when a random stranger comes on a public board and asks other random strangers for advice/information -- I tend to be careful about what I advise. I considered that my input might be useful, since I have been shooting the self-same cartridge you inquired about for a number of years and have some contemporary experience validated by chronograph, target, and brass examination -- rather than the experiences of a revered sage from around-about when we were both born.
I still have a wild-caught and well-trained mustang in Wyoming, but I've never had much use for mules.
Good luck with your rifle.
Dennis
_________________________
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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#2390866 - 08/25/08 09:26 AM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: muledeer]
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windywales
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Registered: 08/25/08
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Muledeer, report back on that factory Kynoch stuff, will you? I bought a batch of that, and it shot so much hotter in my 98 that I would have had to mount a taller front sight to keep them on the paper. An old mauser man told me if the stuff had been stored too warm, it might have deteriorated to a hotter load; maybe so, but they were grouping pretty consistent--just high. I finally pulled the bullets on most of them and reloaded them into new necked-up 8mm brass with loads from COTW and Waters; they shoot more comfortably in my lightweight sporter. Love the rifle, and the cartridge; feel like I've got all I need for anything shy of cape buff and rhino (though an Alaskan guide might disagree about bear meds). Mind yer topknot! windy
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#2396041 - 08/27/08 12:19 PM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: windywales]
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atkinson
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Otis,
If you still ride mules then ain't nobody gonna tell you anything, your head is made up!!! 
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#2397932 - 08/28/08 10:10 AM
Re: Might be a Medium Bore!
[Re: atkinson]
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windywales
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Otis, I'm thinking thiiis bears some looking into. I've seen 9x57's still doing fine on '96 Swede and '88 Commission Rifle actions, neither of which is as strong or well designed for safety as the '98, and from other variations I'm familiar with, the 57 case has always proved more efficient; i.e. more f.p.s. per powder grain than the .308 or -06 case for the same bullet weight. As I said above, my rifle shot factory Kynochs high--about 8" higher at 100 yds than the hottest loads reccommended in the current data. My front sight is ground down to a nub; it should be at least 1/8" taller. I'm betting that the original loads were a lot closer to Ackley than to the current stuff. I'm going to try working up to those loads; bear in mind that I can spot pressure signs as well as the next guy, and even though mine is a 6-1/2 lb. rifle, I'm guessing it'll still be shootable at those specs. I probably won't chase them any higher than the 3031 load that he shows at 2500 f.p.s. even if the primers/cases/etc. show no strain, but the rifle deserves the respect it earned in Africa, and shouldn't take a back seat to the .358 Winchester, among others. If it starts to crowd the Whelen, perhaps it should; the 8x57 is said to handle 97% of what the 30-06 can do--maybe the 9 is 97% of a Whelen. I ain't suicidal; I'll sneak up on 'em, and stick to the new Buffalo Arms 250-gr. .356's that just arrived instead of the .358's I've been shooting. Check back for the results, but if they don't come this week, it doesn't mean I blew it up--I need to find my old chronygraph and see if they still make batteries for it. Mind yer topknot! windy
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