#2397284 - 08/27/08 11:20 PM
Pointing Labs - tell me
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toltecgriz
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a little about them.
I've had a lot of traditional Labs and and I'm partial to them as hunting dogs and friends. They've performed well as retrievers and flushers.
But I see the pointing strains advertised all the time and I'm curious. Do you break them like a bird dog? Or do they work like flushers but point naturally when they come on a bird. The likely quarry would be pheasants and some quail for upland work. I have experience with pointers, setters, Brittanies, GSPs and recently a Griffon (neat dog, but not mine), but I've never come across a pointing Lab in the field.
What's the deal?
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"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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#2397619 - 08/28/08 07:06 AM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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Ward
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I've had one lab that pointed. Hunted him as a flusher and he pointed if he got on top of a bird that didn't fly. The most spectacular point I've ever seen was him jumping over a small mound, realizing there was a bird below him, twisting in the air to land in a classic point. Heck, I thought he was showing off and the pheasant surprised me. He didn't hold point like a true pointer and simply waited until he figured you were close enough that it was OK to flush the bird. Hey, the system wasn't perfect but it worked.
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#2397878 - 08/28/08 09:36 AM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: Ward]
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BwanaND
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Currently have my first dog so can't speak from any experience but my lab does point. The weird thing is that neither of her parents point so it was a totally unexpected, but very welcome surprise.
As I didn't buy her as a pointing lab I trained her simply to be a flusher and it wasn't until the last couple hunts of her first season that she started pointing. She was 10 months old at the time.
Didn't know if it was a fluke or not but last year during her second season afield she showed me she could do it again.
I know some of the purists consider it a bad thing but I figure I have the best of both worlds and could care less of other's opinions. Case in point: last fall on opening day of pheasant season our group had gotten split up because of the terrain so half of the group was waiting, at a gate, for the rest of us to catch up. As we approached my pup started acting birdy and finally went on point within feet of where a guy in his late 40's, from out of state who had come back home to hunt pheasants with his 83 year old dad, was standing. He asked what the dog was doing and what he should do so I told him to flush up the bird. You should have seen the look on his face when he dropped the flushed rooster. He turned around with a HUGE smile on his face and said, "That is the COOLEST thing I have EVER seen!!"
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#2397977 - 08/28/08 10:36 AM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: BwanaND]
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Browtine
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I have a 7 yo old pointing lab that came from pointing parents. I'm not an expert dog trainer by any means, but I trained her just like I trained my Gordon Setter. My experience is spot on with Ward's above. She works tight like a flusher, but locks up when she gets on birds. However, she won't hold them as long as a pure pointing breed. She will start creeping up once you get close. I'm not a purist so this works fine for me. I just like a little notice before they flush and to be able to find them afterwards. If I get that, I'm happy.
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#2398379 - 08/28/08 02:14 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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Bighorn
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My 10 year old lab, Heidi, is a pointing lab, from Black Forest Kennels here in Colorado.
She was put thru a normal training program (by me), but was introduced to birds at a very early age, where she began to show her pointing tendencies.
Over time, the points have become more steady and frequent. If birds, in our case usually pheasants, are running, she hunts like any other lab. If they are holding, however, it's a different game, and great fun.
There have been several times in our 'career' that we have hunted ducks in the morning, and pheasants in the afternoon- that's versatility.
I've hunted her many times with friends and family, and every time folks are amazed to see her lock up on a bird, then be able to walk in on it.
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#2398804 - 08/28/08 05:54 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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43Shooter
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I may have been lucky. I haven't owned Labs from pointing lines but I've had Labs that would point. My last two which includes one I have now would and will point. Neither were from pointing bloodlines. I started them at about nine months with planted pigeons and preseve Chukars on a 50 foot check cord. I'd whoa them when they'd start acting birdy around cover. It took a few trips but they figured it out. The following year they did fine on wild birds and had it figured out fom then on. Since I'm nowhere near being a professional dog trainer it makes me think if my Labs learned it others could.
It's not always the stylish point you get with a setter or pointer but it's a point and often enough a good one. Both dogs came from "American Lab" type stock with good hunting bloodlines. I don't think they have as much stamina in hot weather as a lighter, pointing dog so you have to know when to rest them and have plenty of water for them to avoid heat stroke.
Pointing Labs will find your birds, hold them, retrieve them and be great house dogs. I can't fault them in any way except they don't live long enough.
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#2399138 - 08/28/08 08:01 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: 43Shooter]
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DrHJH
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And for a different viewpoint, I have a "supposed to be a pointing Lab" Lab. I have pictures of her pointing when she was a pup, and the breeder kept her until 4 months old and started her. He showed me her point on planted pigeons. Unfortunately, he used pigeons exclusively, and when a pigeon lands in my yard, she points. She will also point unknown creatures, like porcupines and pine martens, but acts just like any other Lab on game birds. So just because they are said to be pointing Labs and come from pointing parents doesn't mean they turn out that way. So much for what I thought might be the best of both worlds, as BwanaND said above. Heck of a nose, great quail dog, great on sage grouse, blue grouse, ruffed grouse, and pheasants, and a very good retriever, with a calm disposition, so I don't whine too much. But she doesn't point any of these birds.
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#2408770 - 09/02/08 02:04 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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Fly_Guy
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I have a PL pup that's a little over 5 months old. I've been following Julie Knutson's book train the pointing lad. He comes from both PL parents with a very good blood line. So far he's just like bighorn said. If the bird runs, he'll chase and flush, if it hold he'll point. We'll sometimes. I'm personally a waterfowl hunter that just wanted other opportunities, so that's why I went with a PL. As for retrieving, he's unreal already. All in all I couldn't of asked for anything better. He's a great pet, great retriever and I think he's going to be a great upland dog. I really don't think you can go wrong in getting one.
Good luck,
FG
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#2412714 - 09/04/08 09:51 AM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: Fly_Guy]
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toltecgriz
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That's helpful, too.
Does anyone teach them to "whoa" or is a flash point satisfactory?
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#2413116 - 09/04/08 01:49 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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43Shooter
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If by whoa you mean not bumping the bird out early when given the whoa command mine will consistently whoa now. The first two seasons she had her moments but a lot of patience and a little electricity took care of it. She's been outstanding the last three seasons, can't remember the last time I've used the E collar.
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#2414003 - 09/04/08 10:44 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: 43Shooter]
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toltecgriz
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By whoa I mean rock solid until released, but what you say is still helpful.
_________________________
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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#2414479 - 09/05/08 07:48 AM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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Fly_Guy
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Whoa training should be done with a PL. Train it the same way you would train a traditional pointing breed. They will point, it's not a flash point or a hesitation. A friend has an accomplished dog and she'll hold a point till the bird is flushed, and if whoaed, she'll hold till released.
Edited by Fly_Guy (09/05/08 07:49 AM)
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#2416343 - 09/06/08 12:32 AM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: Fly_Guy]
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toltecgriz
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That's the question, what the performance level can be. It seems that various levels are acceptable, depending on one's preference.
Thanks for the replies.
_________________________
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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#2420377 - 09/07/08 11:09 PM
Re: Pointing Labs - tell me
[Re: toltecgriz]
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43Shooter
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The following is about after the bird flushes.
She's not consistently rock solid until released and consistence is the key. I'm confident she would be if I had spent more time on this initially and I should have. Most of the time she'll hold and I continue to work with her on it. In the meantime she wears an orange vest and I'm careful who I hunt with and always will be. It's a dangerous flaw and it only takes once. A load of 20 gauge 8s at close range will kill a dog real quick.
This is not a problem exclusive to pointing Labs. It seems to be a part of training that's not emphasized enough for a lot of dogs. I've seen plenty of pointers, setters, and flushing dogs that weren't consistant at holding rock solid until released and you probably have too. For what it's worth you'll even see it on the hunting shows on TV. They sell a lot of those vests.
Edited by 43Shooter (09/07/08 11:21 PM)
Edit Reason: added first sentence
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