#2476158 - 10/03/08 09:28 PM
Sweets 7.62 question
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firstcoueswas80
Campfire Ranger
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 2482
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Heres the deal, I have had the same bottle of Sweets 7.62 for probably a year and a half. I always thought it worked fine, until tonight.
On a whim, I bought some Montana Extreme Copper Cream.. I thought what can it hurt? So Im bored as all get out tonight so I decided to re-clean (or so I thought) my .257 wby. Well the first patch through came out black with powder.. Weird.... 30 gray/black patches later they are coming out white, or damn near... I used the same method with the MECC that I used with Sweets... They patches never turned blue, which I thought was weird. When I would run my nylon brush through the barrel, the next patch would come out VERY grey..
Does Sweets go bad, or is the MECC just that much better? I have had accuracy problems with this gun, maybe now they will tighten up?
Thanks!
Casey
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#2476223 - 10/03/08 10:08 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: firstcoueswas80]
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denton
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Registered: 06/27/04
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Does the Sweet's still have a strong ammonia odor?
If not, the container was likely not tightly sealed and the ammonia has evaporated off.
You can make your own Sweets out of 1/3 10% janitorial ammonia and 2/3 cheap liquid detergent. Or, if you like it stronger, 50/50.
If the ammonia is gone, you're just swabbing your bore with detergent. That's not a bad thing to do, but it doesn't remove copper.
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#2476263 - 10/03/08 10:51 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: denton]
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firstcoueswas80
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Loc: Tucson, AZ
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My buddy took a good ole wiff the other day, bout knocked him out with the ammonia smell! The copper isnt the problem, its the powder fouling!
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Got my .257 wby! Woohoo!
A hunt with out blood is just an expensive camping trip!
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#2476292 - 10/03/08 11:37 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: firstcoueswas80]
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stevelyn
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Registered: 08/25/05
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Loc: Fairbanksan in Aleutian Hell
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I always clean the bore thoroughly with MPro-7 before using a copper remover.
That way any powder fouling and lube are completely clear and won't impede the copper remover.
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#2476299 - 10/03/08 11:51 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: stevelyn]
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rosco1
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Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 129
Loc: utah
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have you tried wipe out? kroil is good for breaking up stuff to.
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#2476314 - 10/04/08 01:09 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: firstcoueswas80]
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Rman
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Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 456
Loc: Calgary, AB
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Ammonia is a gas/liquid. It is often suspended in solution with other ingredients. In Sweets, the other main ingredient is basically soapy water. After a period of time, the ammonia will dissipate, if not sealed properly. The solution that is left will be pretty much soap,water, and leftover "stuff". So, if not stored properly, Sweets will lose its main active ingredient, ammonia, via evaporation, leaving you with a non effective cleaner. If your patches are coming out grey, I would suggest cleaning first with a solvent, like Hoppes No. 9, this should remove all powder fouling. Then proceed with an ammonia based product, or just plain ammonia. Patches should be blue indicating copper. Stubborn bores should get a shot of JB, or Flitz, followed by more No. 9, followed by more ammonia to recheck for copper. The JB and/or Flitz, should more than take care of any stubborn powder fouling. Always use a really tight patch, or brush/patch combo. By now your bore should be "buffed" down to bare steel. If, at this point, you are still experiencing accuracy problems, you may look at other things besides the bore. Just my two bits worth. Milage may vary.
R.
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#2476332 - 10/04/08 02:52 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: Rman]
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deflave
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Registered: 08/16/07
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Loc: Havre, Montana
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I use Hoppes, Butches, or Montana Extreme to remove the black stuff. Then I use Sweets to remove the blue stuff. Then I swab the barrel with the Hoppes to make sure all the Sweets is gone.
Seems to work.
Travis
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#2476619 - 10/04/08 07:41 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: firstcoueswas80]
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leftycarbon
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 1719
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Sweets is hydroscopic...meaning it wants to absorb moisture. If the top is not very tight it will and get weaker. The ammonia will also evaporate over time...some plastics will allow it to slowly pass through. I put some butches in a Sinclair plastic bottleand with 2 weeksall the ammonia was gone.
The black you saw on your patch however may have been from the abrasive in the bore cream. Probably the same type of stuff thats in JB. JB will turn a patch black if its rubbed on bare clean SS.
Lefty C
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#2476640 - 10/04/08 07:49 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: leftycarbon]
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TC1
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Registered: 08/28/02
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I've had bottles of Sweets that were over a year old and I thought the same thing. It just doesn't work as well as a new bottle. I would replace it. It's cheap enough not to worry about it.
Terry
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#2476909 - 10/04/08 11:05 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: TC1]
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2Seventy
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Loc: Idaho
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For powder fouling Shooters Choice seems to do a good job but the smell is terrible. Sweets has always worked well when removing copper.
2Seventy
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#2478400 - 10/05/08 07:55 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: 2Seventy]
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keith
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Registered: 02/08/02
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What many fail to realize is that fouling occurs in layers, powder on top of copper, and so on and so forth. You have to cut through the layers.
I use the Montana Extreme copper cream and it is wonderful stuff. I used Sweets for 20 years, also used Barnes CR-10, Shooter's Choice copper solvent, foam, and found the Montana Extreme solvent and Copper Killer(50-BMG). The Copper Cream is heck on wheels when it comes to cleaning barrels that have a land or two that picks up a lot of copper.
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#2479212 - 10/05/08 03:55 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: firstcoueswas80]
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jwp475
Campfire Tracker
Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 5784
Loc: USA
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My buddy took a good ole wiff the other day, bout knocked him out with the ammonia smell! The copper isnt the problem, its the powder fouling!
Use another solvent for powder fouling the Sweets is for copper
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Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
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#2479399 - 10/05/08 05:40 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: jwp475]
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rost495
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Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 9864
Loc: La Grange, TX
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I understand that it layers also, I had a stubborn 338 that taught me a lot.
Clean with hoppes 9 when the tube is hot, wet and dry till they are pretty clean, then soak wet on the way home or till cool. Then I get out the JB and polish the bore, about 30 strokes 3 times, new JB each 30. Then copper solvent. Till clean patches. Then I go back and test with Hoppes 9 leaving it sit. If its still clean I'm good to go, if not I make another round.
Cleaning is a major PITA, much like reloading. But both are required to get the most....
BTW a good brushing with powder solvent helps, and as mentioned if in a bind, Kroil gets under about anything....
GM top engine cleaner is a good copper solvent also.
Jeff
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#2479401 - 10/05/08 05:41 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: rost495]
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rost495
Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 01/05/05
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Loc: La Grange, TX
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BTW this is a good time to advertise for ultra bore coat!!!!
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#2479410 - 10/05/08 05:44 PM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: jwp475]
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dennisinaz
Campfire Guide
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 2832
Loc: AZ
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Casey- 20 years ago Sweets was the stuff and it is still a good "lube" for the patching process but there are far better copper removers these days. If you are still getting black stuff--use a good powder/carbon remover and alternate. I usually use a water-based cleaner or Kroil until patches are mostly clean- then switch to Montana or Butch's. If you have time- the foaming cleaners are probably the best. I like the Forrest bore cleaner but forget what it is called now. The Outers stuff is good as well. I run it in and let is sit 30 minutes- patch it out and then turn the rifle so the scope is down and do it again to get the other side of the bore. Twice will usually get me to bare metal with only a small handful of patches. If I am in a hurry I will use Rem-clean with the powdered glass in it to speed stuff up.
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#2480703 - 10/06/08 09:44 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: dennisinaz]
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rost495
Campfire Outfitter
Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 9864
Loc: La Grange, TX
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Just remember, some barrels will only clean up with abrasives.... It amazed me as I was convinced that a chemical reaction would work on anything.... evidently most anything, but not everything.
Point right now, I can see copper in a 338.378 and I've done some work starting to clean it, yet Barnes CR10 won't even turn light green right now..
Jeff
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Get as close as you can, but use your skills as required
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#2480755 - 10/06/08 10:07 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: dennisinaz]
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bobski
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Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 1574
Loc: The wide, wild West
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I usually use a water-based cleaner or Kroil until patches are mostly clean- then switch to Montana or Butch's.
Kroil and Butch's with a nylon brush. Let the Butch's sit an hour or two, wipe, and borescoping always shows a copper free, shiny bore. Montana works well also, just a habit with Butch's and I have more of it. Much better the Sweet's used to be.
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#2480827 - 10/06/08 10:37 AM
Re: Sweets 7.62 question
[Re: bobski]
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EddyBo
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+1 for Butch's BS. I usually soak the barrel for at least an hour then use a wet bronze brush for 10 strokes. Then wet patch until the patches come out pinkish. Then Kroil patch a couple times then dry patch. My borescope tells me this gets everything outta there.
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