#2480150 - 10/06/08 05:19 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: bxroads]
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HawkI
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Yes, it sounds logical. The Barnes #4 for that bullet in that cartridge specifically warns about it. But by the looks of it, it is okay..to my eyes..
I think the runout is affected by your die; they are very pointy and the seater cup is barely making contact and the tip is wobbly, I'm guessing of course since I don't have your stuff.
Mark you bullet tips and try to find out exactly how much support the tip of the bullet is getting; not much if your runout is that high..
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#2480158 - 10/06/08 05:25 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: HawkI]
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VAnimrod
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IIRC, the 165 TSX was specifically designed for the .300WM, due to exactly that problem with the 168.
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#2480264 - 10/06/08 06:16 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: VAnimrod]
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Big_Redhead
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bxroads,
The point made by HawkI is a good one. Mark a bullet ogive with a permanent marker and see where the seating stem is contacting.
I had the same issue with my Sako 30-378 and Barnes 180 grain TSXs. If I may, I would make a couple suggestions to reduce runout: If you are using a standard bulletseating die, make sure the die is adjusted as far down as possible so the mouth of the cases is just barely shy of the crimping step in the die when the ram is fully raised. This will provide the maximum support for the case when the bullet is seated. You might also try seating the bullet a little deeper so the top ring on the bullet is partially inside the case neck. Just a couple suggestions from a crusty but not-so-old handloader.
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#2480305 - 10/06/08 06:33 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: VAnimrod]
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MontanaMan
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IIRC, the 165 TSX was specifically designed for the .300WM, due to exactly that problem with the 168.
The 165 was designed with a long shank section & shorter ogive specifically for deep seating in 300 WM's that require deep seating to fit throat or mag.
Yours does not look to be seated that deep.
Take your seater apart & inspect the bullet to seating cone fit....if it's not making solid contact, then it should be changed.
Another thing thing may or may not help in to begin to seat the bullet, lower the ram, turn the case a bit, seat a little more and rotate the case a 2nd time........might or might not help.
I've also found that friction in the neck expander is the cause of more bullet runout than all other factors combined and that can be accentuated in a short neck like the 300.
I just neck size for the most part and that helps a lot.
Absent that, carbide buttons and good lube in the neck helps; supposedly, with carbide, you don't have to lube, but I guess that depends on your situation.
MM
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#2480328 - 10/06/08 06:41 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: Big_Redhead]
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bxroads
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The die is a Forster Ultra Micrometer die, as is all my seaters. I'm always very conscientious of concentricity and have never had such problem. I've not checked the seater cone to bullet fit but will this afternoon.
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#2480345 - 10/06/08 06:49 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: MontanaMan]
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bxroads
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I've also found that friction in the neck expander is the cause of more bullet runout than all other factors combined and that can be accentuated in a short neck like the 300.
Wouldn't that show if the sized case is measured prior to seating? After sizing all of the cases have less than .020 run out.
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#2480389 - 10/06/08 07:06 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: bxroads]
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MontanaMan
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Yes, it will show in the sized case..........are you really getting .020" or is that a typo, 'cause that's a LOTTTTTTTTT !!!!!.
MM
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#2480394 - 10/06/08 07:09 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: MontanaMan]
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bxroads
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Woops, thats a typo. I'm getting less than .002"!
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#2480415 - 10/06/08 07:18 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: bxroads]
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MontanaMan
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Kinda thought so.........
Could be you just don't have enough shank contact to fully align the bullet.
Let us know what you find on the seater cup to bullet fit.
MM
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#2480457 - 10/06/08 07:37 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: MontanaMan]
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rost495
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Registered: 01/05/05
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OTOH< have you shot the loaded rounds? Do they shoot well enough or not?
A seating stem cut for the TSX would be a good start. I load all my ammo with the seat half ways, rotate 180 and finish... just the way I ended up doing it just in case.
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#2480545 - 10/06/08 08:18 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: rost495]
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bxroads
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I load all my ammo with the seat half ways, rotate 180 and finish... just the way I ended up doing it just in case.
Tried it and it didn't help any what so ever.
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#2480572 - 10/06/08 08:38 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: bxroads]
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Daveh
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I would seat them so that last band is at least half way in the case (probably another .050). There isn't much boolit contacting the neck.
Dave
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#2480650 - 10/06/08 09:16 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: Daveh]
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rost495
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Have you shot em? If the neck is cut for accuracy in the chamber, than the out of line may not account for much negative in accuracy.
As an aside, I'm a firm X man, but just ordered some Etips to play with. No grooves but we'll see how they work out. There is at least one other monolithic maker too if the tsx doesnt' pan out.
Jeff
PS all my reading and I read right over, if I can find some of my buddies 168 stuff I loaded for him, I'll get back to you, it was 300 win mag also, and I never even checked runout, but it shoots enough under MOA to keep me and him happy.
Edited by rost495 (10/06/08 09:17 AM)
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#2480666 - 10/06/08 09:24 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: rost495]
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MontanaMan
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Have you shot em? If the neck is cut for accuracy in the chamber, than the out of line may not account for much negative in accuracy.
Jeff
Very true.........if the bullet is close to the lands, in a BG caliber, I've haven't found much difference.
OTOH, if it's a bench gun and you're trying to get from 3/8" to 1/4", then I think it's more worth tracing.
MM
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#2480671 - 10/06/08 09:25 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: rost495]
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bxroads
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The rifle is shooting like crazy at 100 BUT with an occasional flier. A typical situation is that I'll get 3 groups of three shots well less than an inch then on the fourth group I'll get two of the three touching and a wild flier. POI is dead on every time. When set to zero it'll stay in the center of a 1" square. Its that occasional flyer that I'm attributing to the horrible run out (bullet has an extremely visible wobble when spun). This afternoon I'm stretching it out to 600 so I'm anxious to see how it is effected.
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#2480676 - 10/06/08 09:29 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: bxroads]
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utah708
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Seat some a little deeper so that you get multiple bands in the neck and see if the runout goes down.
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#2480677 - 10/06/08 09:29 AM
Re: TSX will not seat properly
[Re: bxroads]
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Jeff_O
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Wild flyers were the achilles heel of the earlier X bullets- for me anyway. Be curious to hear how this works out for you!
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