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#2494196 - 10/12/08 06:42 AM Ruger #1 accuracy problems
Torque
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Registered: 12/28/06
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Loc: Central Arkansas

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I am having some problems with a new #1 in 7x57. Around 2" at 50 yds and 4 at 100 yds. I am sure the problem is with the forearm. Has anyone used the Hick's Accurizer? It would add around 65 dollars to the cost of the gun, so I am debating using some home made methods for fixing it. Either way, if anyone has used it, I would love to get some feed back. If anyone has any other suggestions, my ears are open.
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#2494224 - 10/12/08 07:00 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
MikeFletcher
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Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 170
Loc: Tulsa, OK

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I have a Ruge No. 1 that was sent to Hamilton Bowen for some work. I had him install the Hicks Accurizer. Bowen said it was not worth the amount of work required for installation and that in the future simply drilling and tapping the forearm hanger for a set screw would serve the same purpose with less work.

However it does work. Just the long way around the block.

Mike Fletcher
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#2494260 - 10/12/08 07:18 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: MikeFletcher]
MickinColo
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Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 595
Loc: Colorado

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Take a look at these before you start doing anything.

http://varminthuntinginternational.com/accurizingnoruger.html

http://www.rvbprecision.com/articles/9/accuracy-tips-for-the-ruger-1


Edited by MickinColo (10/12/08 10:43 AM)

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#2494380 - 10/12/08 08:07 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: MickinColo]
hornet7722
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Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 247
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI

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Before you go too far, try adjusting the forearm screw that is found under the forearm. It's free to try and you can always un-do what you've done. I have 4 - #1's: a 1A in 270 (tack driver) a 1B in 257bob (needed some adjusting of the above mentioned screw - now it's a tack driver) two 1V's a 22PPC and a 6mm rem, both tack drivers. Also I might add that one has a totally stock trigger that has been adjusted, one has a Moyers (great trigger) the other two, well they still need work.

Doug

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#2494382 - 10/12/08 08:08 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: hornet7722]
hornet7722
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Registered: 07/27/07
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Oh ya, I'll take the 7 off your hands if you are done with it!

Doug

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#2494615 - 10/12/08 09:58 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
redz06
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Registered: 05/10/07
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2" at 50 yds is a fair sized group, even for a hard used barrel.

One might try to separate parameters by shooting the rifle with the same ammo, without the forearm just to see what happens. Might check the fired case appearance. Try some other ammo.

Some of these rifles are reputed to have a long throat, one might ascertain where the rifling begins with a dummy case with bullet and some steel wool for burnishing the bullet.

Sometimes barrels can be loaded with copper, a proper cleaning could help that point of view. Perhaps a copper solvent of your choice, not left in the chromemoly barrel too long; then your choice of bore protectant which is patched out before use.

Ammo could be a factor, whether factory or handloaded or not; some little, thin barreled rifles are sensitive to ammo choice. Might not hurt anything to try to find the throat, and/or use some different handloads or factory ammo types.

The articles mentioned above have some good pointers in general, worth reading. Read them with an open mind, then decide what to to keep or not.

One could always replace the barrel, but kinda a last resort for most.

An overly heavy, creepy, trigger does nothing for practical field accuracy. Neither does a loose buttstock.

As a last thing, might check the scope mounts for tightness, and the scope itself. I suspect that scopes can be troublesome at times, as in some do not return to zero on each shot.

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#2494698 - 10/12/08 10:46 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: redz06]
Torque
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Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Central Arkansas

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 Originally Posted By: redz06
2" at 50 yds is a fair sized group, even for a hard used barrel.

One might try to separate parameters by shooting the rifle with the same ammo, without the forearm just to see what happens. Might check the fired case appearance. Try some other ammo.

Some of these rifles are reputed to have a long throat, one might ascertain where the rifling begins with a dummy case with bullet and some steel wool for burnishing the bullet.

Sometimes barrels can be loaded with copper, a proper cleaning could help that point of view. Perhaps a copper solvent of your choice, not left in the chromemoly barrel too long; then your choice of bore protectant which is patched out before use.

Ammo could be a factor, whether factory or handloaded or not; some little, thin barreled rifles are sensitive to ammo choice. Might not hurt anything to try to find the throat, and/or use some different handloads or factory ammo types.

The articles mentioned above have some good pointers in general, worth reading. Read them with an open mind, then decide what to to keep or not.

One could always replace the barrel, but kinda a last resort for most.

An overly heavy, creepy, trigger does nothing for practical field accuracy. Neither does a loose buttstock.

As a last thing, might check the scope mounts for tightness, and the scope itself. I suspect that scopes can be troublesome at times, as in some do not return to zero on each shot.





Thank everyone for the suggestions. I guess I needed to include more information.

Firstly, it is a brand new gun. It has seen around 45-50 round total now. The throat is of a normal length. The scope, mounts and rail are all tight. It has only seen handloads, with 2 different powders. H4891SC and H414 have been used under 139 gr. Rem. Honestly, a 2" group at 50 yards has happened to me before, but it always tightened up at greater distances. But 2" at 50, and 4" at 100 is completely unacceptable in a gun of its caliber.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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#2494883 - 10/12/08 12:38 PM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
1B
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Registered: 05/21/01
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Loc: Reston, VA, USA

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A couple of points before you do any metal surgery.

You are dead right on the 4" MOA, it is not right!

The #1 is probably a #1A. If an early red pad rifle, the chances are the light barrel will spray rounds aound when heated up. If cooled down thoroughly, the pattern might tighten. If not, look at the wood metal fit -- is it eneven, with more pressure on one side of the barrel than the other? If so, some judicious sanding and resealing of the wood is in order. If this is not a problem, try inserting a business card shim into the barrel channel where it meets the action. Try it -- if it works, you can fiberglass it in. You eventually may try to free float th4e barrel too -- this can always be undone later. Also, pull the butt pad and check that the screw that fits the action to the foreend is tight.

What rounds are you using? The older #1s often prefer 175 gr. round nose bullets. The modern sleak ogive, lighter, rounds tend not to work as well with the long throats once used by Ruger. More recent rifles -- in the past ten to fifteen -- have tighter throats and should shoot the 140 gr ballistic tips nicely.

Good luck,
1B






Edited by 1B (10/12/08 12:39 PM)

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#2496330 - 10/13/08 04:47 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: 1B]
Torque
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Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Central Arkansas

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It is a #1A, made in 2008. Here is what I tried yesterday. I removed the forearm. The forearm hanger is not contacting the barrel. The barrel is truly freefloated. I shot the barrel with the forearm off of the gun (the gun was resting on the hanger, not the barrel). The group size at 100yds was around 3 1/2 inches. I freefloated I tried using a shim between the barrel and the hanger. The impact point changed drastically, but the group size remained very large. This process has become very frustrating. I have a #1 in 405 Winchester that literally shoots cloverleafs every time I use it.

Edited by Torque (10/13/08 05:35 AM)
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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#2496370 - 10/13/08 05:18 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
1B
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Registered: 05/21/01
Posts: 2124
Loc: Reston, VA, USA

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Torque,

Ruger deos not make 1Bs in 7x57! (They once did, about 75 of them, way back in the 70s. I have one of them.)

7x57s usually only come in RSIs and 1As now. Unless that is, you got a "one-of" NIB from the factory. And never say never with Ruger. In that case, do not fiddle with it at all or you would lose collector value.

What kibnd of ammo are using?


1B

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#2496390 - 10/13/08 05:34 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: 1B]
Torque
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Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Central Arkansas

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 Originally Posted By: 1B
Torque,

Ruger deos not make 1Bs in 7x57! (They once did, about 75 of them, way back in the 70s. I have one of them.)

7x57s usually only come in RSIs and 1As now. Unless that is, you got a "one-of" NIB from the factory. And never say never with Ruger. In that case, do not fiddle with it at all or you would lose collector value.

What kibnd of ammo are using?


1B


It is a 1A, sorry about that. I have tried Remington Core lokt 139g and Hornady SST 139g using H4831SC and H414. I have tried new Remington brass and resized 8x57 brass. I am almost to the point of just selling the rifle, and telling Ruger where to shove it. There is no reason a rifle of this price should need to have anything adjusted to get it to shoot somewhere close to MOA.


Edited by Torque (10/13/08 05:36 AM)
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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#2496524 - 10/13/08 06:43 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
coyo
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 597
Loc: land of OZ

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Ive had several #1s down thru the years and every one of them would stack bullets,the groups would look like a ladder,every #1 Ive owned has acted that way............
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Matthew 7 13-14,Wide is the road to destruction and many there shall be found upon that road,Narrow is the path to eternal life which will be found by very few...........where are ya headed there fella!

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#2496665 - 10/13/08 08:02 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
mathman
Campfire Guide


Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 4158

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Being a Ruger No.1 owner I understand the special issues that sometimes crop up. However there is something else you may want to ascertain before you extensively modify or ditch the rifle.

Are your loaded rounds straight? Bullet runout on the order of .008" can turn an accurate bolt action 308 from a consistent sub-moa performer (with straight ammo) to a 3" sprayer. I've demonstrated this using ammo from the same box of military "match grade" cartridges from the Lake City arsenal. I had another shooter fire the cartridges from a Kimber Longmaster and he didn't know which were which.

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#2496851 - 10/13/08 09:29 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: mathman]
Ron_T
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Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 4308
Loc: 10 miles north of Dayton, Ohio

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Torque...........

I understand your frustration... and before you go to a lot of work, you might considering trying the THREE THINGS I do with my #1 International (aka "RSI") to achieve fine accuracy.

My best group (so far) is a 3-shot group measuring .167 inches @ 50 yards using 47.2 grains of H4350, a 140 grain Sierra, flat-based ProHunter bullet sparked by standard Winchester large rifle primers in fired & neck-sized only Remington cases trimmed to minimum length (22.225 inches).

I seat the bullet only 10/1000ths off the rifling.

My 2nd best 3-shot group, using the same components, but using 47.6 grains of H4350 yields .169 inches @ 50 yards with a chronographed muzzle velocity of 2578 fps.

A maximum load (50.0 grains) of H4350, using the same components as above, should be used ONLY in MODERN FIREARMS like our Ruger #1s... and yields 3 shot groups of .404 inches at 50 yards with an estimated M.V. of 2780 fps out of my RSI's 20-inch barrel.

I chronographed a load containing 49.2 grains of H4350 with the above listed components... the velocity averaged 2707 fps.

The "secret" to my rifle's accuracy was three-fold...

1- Use Hodgdon's H4350 rifle powder which my RSI loves. Your #1 may not like it, but chances are it will. It shoots quite well with ANY reasonable load of H4350, but 50.0 grains is the MAXIMUM suggested load by a leading reloading manual for use in MODERN RIFLES ONLY.

2- Seat the bullet close to the rifling... less than 20/1000ths.

3- And very likely most important of all... LET THE BARREL COOL OFF BEFORE SHOOTING ANOTHER ROUND !~!~!

Before I started letting my RSI's barrel to cool down... it shot eratically large groups as well, but letting the barrel cool down until it's just "warm" (but not "HOT") to the touch seems to cause my #1 to shoot VERY consistently!

In fact, what I've done to pass the time while the RSI's barrel is cooling off is to buy a CZ453, an extremely accurate little rifle in .22 rimfire. The CZ features a hammer-forged barrel and it's reputation for accuracy shows it.

I can generally shoot one or two 5-shot groups with the CZ and by the time I'm done (depending on whether or not the RSI is in direct sunlight or not and what the air temperature is), it's time to take another shot with the #1.

You might give this method a "try" and see if it works for you. \:\)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
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The Savage Model 99 "EG" lever-action rifle in .300 Savage caliber with the schnoble forearm... an American icon & more so than ever, THE classic eastern deer rifle/cartridge combination!

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#2497025 - 10/13/08 10:50 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Torque]
Savage_99
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Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 7472

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Accuracy is not always just loads or bedding. It can be the crown for instance. Break the corner on the barrels crown or have it done.
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#2497541 - 10/13/08 03:09 PM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: Savage_99]
mcknight77
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Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 299
Loc: Anchorage, AK

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Two things you can work on without working on the rifle. It has made a big difference in some of my No.1s.

The No.1 has a slow lock time. It takes some concentration to keep the rifle centered while that hammer falls. If you are used to Remington 700s there is a big difference.

Check your scope for parallax error. If you move your head around while crosshairs are centered on target and they move even though the rifle doesn't move you're looking at parallax. If it does that, and it does not have an adjustable objective, then back away from the scope a bit and make sure the shadow around the view is centered in the scope. That will keep the parallax error to a minimum.

Some of my No.1s are very picky on which loads they like. My 1A in .243Win shoots Remington factory 100 gr PSPCLs into six inches at 100. It shoots my handloaded 95gr Nosler Partitions into MOA and shoots handloaded 75gr Hornady HPs into 3/4". It took some frustrating trips to the range until I found what it liked.

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#2497597 - 10/13/08 03:35 PM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: mcknight77]
1B
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Registered: 05/21/01
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Loc: Reston, VA, USA

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Torque,

Try some 175 gr. factory ammo. Rest the foreend on the bags so that the action is closest to the ftont bag. And, let the barrel cool aftere the firsdt two rounds or til the barrel is cool to the touch tween the later rounds.

If the wood is better than average and you decide to sell it, I'd be glad to consider placing a bid. Right now I have no 1As in 7x57 but I do have one each in RSI, 1B, and 1 AB.

Good luck,
1b


Edited by 1B (10/13/08 03:38 PM)

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#2498854 - 10/14/08 07:02 AM Re: Ruger #1 accuracy problems [Re: 1B]
Torque
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Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 69
Loc: Central Arkansas

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I spoke with Ruger this morning, and they were pretty much unhelpful. I will have to send the gun back to them, paying shipping both ways. They said it will not guarantee any type of accuracy increase. They said their factory specs only dictate 1.5 in groups at 50 yds and 3in at 100. That is absolutely horrible. What kind of gun company could be ok with that? 6 inches at 200 yds? Isn't the Ruger #1 their flagship? Adding those costs to the gun, its just not worth it to keep it. I am going to sell the gun. Thank everyone for their suggestions. I am very aggravated right now. I don't think I should have to do a damn thing to a brand new, high end gun to make it shoot.
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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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