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#2700163 - 01/05/09 02:20 PM Hawk knife?
humdinger Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1809
Loc: Twin Cities MN
I get a magazine called "the backwoodsman" and it is a primitive / homesteader type magazine that is unique to best describe it. There is an ad for a custom knifemaker name Robert Hawk from Ferndale WA and you have to write him to get information. He makes a fixed blade drop point knife that is intriguing so I wrote him. The knife is about 3.75" long x 5/32 thick x 1.5" deep and had a dymo wood handle. He makes the blade from 0-1 tool steel, heat treats it, and "cryogenically treated" although he refers to "deep freeze" treatment in his literature.
He's a very low tech guy with no web site and he hand wrote his response to me. Nothing comes up on a google search.
The knife, sheath, and matching 25 degree sharpener block cost $120 + $8 S&H.
This is the first time I have checked out a custom knife and I want to know if anyone has seen these or if that steel is not the best. I am leary of the "cryogenically treating" if it is not done at a real cryo treater.
My current knife is an older buck vanguard (steel ? - early model)and wonder if this is much of an upgrade.

Opinions welcomed.

H
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#2700617 - 01/05/09 05:45 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: humdinger]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7695
Loc: 99821/06810
Can't speak for his work. I have never heard of him or seen any of his knives. As for 0-1 Tool steel its a fine steel for a blade. As for his heat treating you don't state a RC. As for cryo he could be using Liquid Nitrogen to accomplish this. I have several knives made by other guys that do use that method and I have never had a problem with any of the knives. All I could tell you is sight unseen $128 is not that much if the knife intriges you that much.
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Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.

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#2700956 - 01/05/09 07:59 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
humdinger Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1809
Loc: Twin Cities MN
MCH,
Verbatim from his flyer:
"I grind form the blade. Using a proprietary process, the blade is heat treated to 60 - 65 rockwell hardness then placed in a deep freeze. This holds the sharpness of the blade longer."

I can only assume the hardness is on the rockwell C scale and hope he sends it out for cryotreating. The blade length is 3 3/4" x 1-1/2 so it is a touch short and stout, but it is intriging. I looked at the knives in cabelas during lunch hour and this one doesn't seem that expensive now.

H
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Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?

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#2701003 - 01/05/09 08:20 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: humdinger]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7695
Loc: 99821/06810
60 to 65 is a large swing in hardness. A deep freeze can mean a lot of different things. using a baking pan and some liquid nitrogen could be considered a deep freeze. The size is a little long to my liking, I prefer a blade between 2-3/4 to 3 inches. However an extra 3/4 of an inch wouldn't kill me. Drop point is one of my favorites. Does he say if he tapers the tang or has a distall taper? I would assume at that price it would be a full tang.
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Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.

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#2701012 - 01/05/09 08:23 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7695
Loc: 99821/06810
Oh yeah I can't say I am sold on a blade needed to be cryo treated. As for the Rockwell Hardness I think in my opinion 65 in 0-1 tool steel is to much. 59-61 would be fine.

At that price you may want to contact MichiganRoadKill on here. He and I have been working on a knife design I think might fit your needs well. Ask him about the MCH blade.


Edited by MontanaCreekHunter (01/05/09 08:27 PM)
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Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.

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#2701250 - 01/05/09 10:08 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
humdinger Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1809
Loc: Twin Cities MN
oh...my head is getting dizzy from these new terms you are throwing out! This is telling me I need to do some homework.

I am for helping the little guy out who makes knives, but I hate to pay good money for a wrong product. Now is the time to pull my three fixed blade knives out and determine what I like and don't like about each and then contact Michiganroadkill. His work does look good from another post here.
Thanks.

H
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Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?

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#2701803 - 01/06/09 01:27 AM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: humdinger]
13579 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 464
65 for 01 is too much. Randall uses 01 for his carbon steel knives and they are about RC55. Most makers who use carbon steel, 01, L6, and a few others hold the hardness to about Rc55, some even a little less.

Cyro treating has to be at least -320 F. A deep freeze won't do it. I have heard of some people using dry ice, but that is only about -120 F, still not cold enough.

01 is a carbon steel, and to the best of my knowledge, would not benefit from Cyro quenching. Stainless steels, 440C, ATS 34, 154CM, BG42, are the ones that benefit from Cyro quenching.

If you are interested in one of his knives, ask him how he knows they are Rc60 to 65, and who does his heat treating, and how it is done. Cyro treating will not harm 01, but it probably does not benefit it, either.

Rc65 is getting into the area of milling cutters and lathe tool bits made from high speed steel. If you go to Rc65 with 01, it is going to be extremely brittle. I was not even aware that 01 could be taken to Rc65, but maybe it can.

01 is a great knife steel, probably one of the best, even in the era of the super steels that are available now, but the best steel available, improperly heat treated, is just about worthless.

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#2703460 - 01/06/09 05:19 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: 13579]
MontanaCreekHunter Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 7695
Loc: 99821/06810
13579,

I take it from the above post this guy does his own heat treating and so called cryo. I don't know for sure but assume that he is using liquid nitrogen in a baking pan to do what he calls cryo treating. I have several blades of 0-1 @ 59RC and never have had a problem with them. Then again I use them as they were intended to be used. A hunting skinning knife of around 3 inch blade lenght isn't made to pry open things. I like 0-1 but in my opinion A-1 is better when properly worked.
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#2703641 - 01/06/09 06:33 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: MontanaCreekHunter]
13579 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 464
MCH:

"I take it from the above post this guy does his own heat treating and so called cryo."

That was my impression, also. The reason for my comments is there is heat treating, then there is heat treating. There is a difference in heating a piece of steel red hot with a welding torch and dropping it into a can of motor oil, and guessing it is about Rc65, as opposed to using a heat treating furnace with an accurate temperature guage on it, then tempering it using the same quality control.

Tell me more about the Cyro quenching with Liquid Nitrogen in a baking pan. I send my blades to Paul Bos, and the only Liquid Nitrogen I have ever seen was in tanks at doctor's offices, where they use it to remove skin cancer. I don't know what type of Liquid Nitrogen set up Paul uses, but I would think it would be something designed for the purpose.

Could you just pour it into a baking pan and put the blade in it? Looks like it would evaporate pretty fast.

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#2703658 - 01/06/09 06:40 PM Re: Hawk knife? [Re: 13579]
13579 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 464
He might use a heat treating furnace, have a Rockwell tester, and a commercial Cyro quenching set up, and do it right, or send his blades to a commercial heat treater. I don't know, but I would find out before I spent the money on a knife.

That is the reason I send my blades to Paul Bos. A proper heat treating set up is very expensive, and some of the super steels have to be heated in a controled atmosphere or vacuum furnace.

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