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#2796608 - 02/08/09 RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results...
Brad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 22654
 Originally Posted By: sdgunslinger
With one of the first nice days of the winter.....in the upper thirties and a lack of howling winds, I was able to get out and fire a few shots over the pro-chrono . FWIW to anyone.......

The gun is a M-70 classic stainless 300 wsm, once fired W-W cases and regular strength WW primers . 180 gr. Nosler ballistics seated to 2.9 inch OAL . None of the shots showed primer flattening or heavy bolt lift .


62.5 gr. 2890 fps

64.0 gr. 3003 fps

65.0 gr . 3062 fps


Well, obviously we've all started to hear a bit of the RL17 BUZZ, and I've been curious about it for some time.

Since I've known SD on this and another forum for a good long time, and I know he's an honest reporter and a guy that doesn't red-line, his RL17 post sparked something in me to try and locate some of the stuff... as luck would have it, one stop at Yellowstone Gateways Sports and I had a pound (they got their first shipment yesterday!).

I'm totally under the weather with a cold, but since I found out my 300 WSM has a potential liking for the 200 gr Partition, and since it was a drop-dead beautiful, warm, and windless day, I decided to ignore my cold and work up some loads based on SD's post and the Alliant website.

I took the Kimber MT and went up to our property in the Shields Valley this evening (the nearly full moon was just rising over the Crazy Mountains). I set up the chrono and bench and hunkered down for some shooting.

200 gr. Nosler Partition / WW Bras / Fed 210 Primers / Seated .030" off lands:

62.0 = 2,858
62.5 = 2,861

By comparison, 61.5 gr's of H4350 gives 2,801 fps in this rifle.

180 gr. Nosler Partition / WW Bras / Fed 210 primers / Seated .030" off lands:

64.5 = 3,037 fps
65.0 = 3,067 fps

By comparison, 63.5 gr's of H4350 gives 2,954 fps in this rifle.

All loads gave similar (easy) bolt lift as my H4350 loads (which are .5 gr's below Hodgdon's MAX loads).

With the 200's I'd go with the 62.0 gr load... it gives exactly the same .9" accuracy that H4350 has given and obviously going .5 gr higher yielded very little velocity gain which leads me to believe the 62.0 gr load is MAX in my rifle.

With the 180's I'd be comfortable with either 64.5 or 65.0 gr's... since I'm conservative by nature, I'd go with the 64.5 gr load just to keep everything nice and easy.

This particular Kimber dotes on 168 TSX's and now (apparently) 200 partitions, but absolutely doesn't like any 180 grain bullet I've tried in it (go figure!). The 64.5 gr/RL 17 load turned in a 1.25" group (which is totally acceptable) but this rifle shoots much better and more consistently with heavier and lighter bullets.

So, at first blush I'd absolutely give Alliant credit that, at least with the 300 WSM cartridge, the hype appears to be true. Obviously more testing is warranted but, so far, I'd cautiously say RL17 is a real winner, giving identical accuracy as H4350, but a fair bit more velocity.

BTW, a word of caution, Alliant's site lists 66.0 gr's with a 180 Speer (300 WSM)... that would be over MAX in my rifle.

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#2796646 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Brad]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Mac, thx for the report.

Next up, I'd encourage you to take 3 case with your 200 load and 3 with your 180 load and keep loading em up and firing them. See how many times you can load them b4 the primer pockets get too loose. 4 me this would be quite telling as to how much was too much.

Just a thunk

Dober
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#2796700 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Brad]
SamOlson Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 23681
Interesting Brad, thanks for sharing the info.

3050+ is cruising right along for the little fatty!
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#2796759 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Brad]
SU35 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 12033
Pretty cool huh Brad.

What's your ES?


Your results pretty much line up with mine.

 Quote:

65 grains of RL17 for 3,060.

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#2797483 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: SU35]
sdgunslinger Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 1813
Loc: Gary , SD USA
And near identical results with my M-70......


Hello WSM , goodbye 300 Winchester (grin)

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#2797568 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: sdgunslinger]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 20372
Loc: The Bozone, Montana
Hmmmm... Just when I thought I was done with my 7mm saum...
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Originally Posted By captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...

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#2798507 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: sdgunslinger]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Could be wrong here but, I'd be for betting if it's doing some wonder work with the WSM (with good case life, the one thing to date not spoken of or worked thru) then I'd be for betting it'll do the same thing for the 300 Win.

One way or another there will still be the speed diff between the two is my opinion.

Dober
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#2798513 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Rancho_Loco]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Rancho-that is one cool lil rig, don't give up on her yet. Now once you see my redone G33/270 then you can begin to give up on her...grin

Dober
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#2798524 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 20372
Loc: The Bozone, Montana
Nah - I'm not giving up on it, just thought I was close to finding a load. I was liking Magpro, but now Gateway has RL 17 for me to mess around with...
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Originally Posted By captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...

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#2798531 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Rancho_Loco]
SamOlson Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 23681
I read somewhere that '17 is dirty...
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#2798532 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: SamOlson]
SamOlson Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 23681
grin
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#2798541 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: SamOlson]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 20372
Loc: The Bozone, Montana
I like dirty.. Wait, are we talking about powder?
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Originally Posted By captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...

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#2798555 - 02/08/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Rancho_Loco]
SamOlson Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 02/02/06
Posts: 23681
laughin'


You buy a can?
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#2798846 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: SamOlson]
Rancho_Loco Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 20372
Loc: The Bozone, Montana
I'll pick up my gopher gun near there this week. I'll see if I can sneak a can into the trip.
_________________________
Originally Posted By captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...

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#2799227 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
sdgunslinger Offline
Campfire Ranger

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 1813
Loc: Gary , SD USA
Dober...that's why I stuck the (grin) in there . I knew that crack would stir someone's pot (grin again)

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#2799438 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Brad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 22654
 Originally Posted By: Mark R Dobrenski
Could be wrong here but, I'd be for betting if it's doing some wonder work with the WSM (with good case life, the one thing to date not spoken of or worked thru) then I'd be for betting it'll do the same thing for the 300 Win.

One way or another there will still be the speed diff between the two is my opinion.

Dober


Mark, according to Alliant's data, it doesn't really boost the 300 WM http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/r...41&bulletid=189 ... apparently it was "formulated" specifically for the short mag case geometry, and that is where any increase in speed will be found.

I've seen a solid 50 - 100 fps increase in speed with 165, 180 and 200 grain bullets (depending). Not monumental, but since the powder is temp insensitive like H4350 and is giving slightly better groups and equally low ES's, what's not to like? http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/reloder17.aspx

Not the Second Coming, but a real boon for 300 WSM shooters... was at the range most of the evening and re-confirmed my first impression. The stuff WORKS in the 300 WSM.

Tonight at the range:



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#2799468 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Brad]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Great pic, and no doubt the WSM is getting the attention these days so it doesn't suprise me to see their data like this.

I could be wrong but I'm still bettin that if people work the 300 WM to the same pressures as one is running R17 that they'll see comperable gains over regular 300 WM data. But then again maybe not, time will tell.

To date I've yet to see/read where anyone has taken a couple of cases and ran them time and time again to see how long the primer pockets will stay tight with this kind of gas around them.

I realize that several Fire members are using the powder, and several are seeing the gains (which is pretty darn cool). But I still want to see that the case life is still there with these kinds of speeds/pressures.

No doubt I've seen this type of thing happen b4 as I've seen R22 time and time again prove to me that a powder can have those kinds of speeds gains over other (like the 4350's and 4831's) powders.

It'll be fun to see how it all works out a year from now when lots of people have had considerable amounts of time in with the new product. And with the varrying different lots to come, no doubt some will be even faster and some will be slower.

Incredible isn't it the amount of new stuff that hits the market every year?

All powder gack aside how'd the bugger shoot today?

Dober
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#2799496 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
SU35 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 12033
I posted this already Mark and in light of this conversation I 'll repeat it.

 Quote:
This load data is from the RL web site for RL 17

300 WSM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 2.800 66.0 3082

300 WM 180 gr BTSP Fed Fed 215 3.340 70.5 3074


Don't you find it interesting that the 300 WSM list a higher speed
than the 300 Win Mag yet uses 4.5 grains less powder.
Has not Winchester been saying that all along and yet people
pooh pooh it. I see this with other loads as well.
Does cartridge design matter?

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#2799519 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Brad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 22654
Ah, the eternal skeptic \:D

My question is how in the heck do you get 3K with a 150 in the 270 Win's 23" tube?

RL22, WW414, RL19, H4350, H4831, Ramshot Hunter, Ramshot Big Game... none have gotten close for me what RL17 has done in the 300 WSM, and I'm running a full 1.5 gr's below Allinat's data with my rifle.

Could just be the hype is real?

I'm not willing to bet the farm yet... but am close.

Rifle shot GREAT... forgot a few things I had to re-learn... ie, a barrel shoots better when thoroughly broken-in (CLEANED between the first four or five rounds) and definitely some factory tubes show a real increase in accuracy with over 100 rounds through them. This one definitely has.

180 NP's were in the 3/4" range (and below) with RL17 at a slightly reduced load of 64 gr's and seated a full .050" off the lands (3,016 fps).

The 200 gr NP's continued their same boring accuracy.

Shot the 165 AB... went 3,145 fps no problem with 66.5 gr's of RL17. As usual, didn't shoot very well (around 1.4"... exactly what they do in my 308)... they might be the most consistently mediocre bullet I've ever used.



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#2799520 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: SU35]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
Good and interesting reading no doubt, but I wish to see someone(that I actually know) run the 300 WM at similar pressures and see how it goes. Call me a skeptic but I don't always trust what I read. I do trust what I hear from people I know and trust however so I'll wait and see...grin

Plus I really wanna see someone running these kinds of speeds and getting 7-10 loadings out of a case.

Cynical bugger eh...grin

Dober
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#2799558 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Brad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 22654
Mark, the point is advances in powders actually CAN happen... there are a few smart engineers, that know a thing or two more than me, out there working on problems my meager mind can't cope with. The 300 WSM has been out enough years now, and has achieved enough popularity, that I'd be willing to bet several brainiac's have been at work on this powder for quite some time.

Do you really think Alliant, in this day of litigation, is going to make claims that pressure data doesn't support?

It's a good thing we didn't all sit back and accept the 2,700 fps the early powders gave us with the 150 grainer in the 30-06 Springfield's 24" barrel back in 1906... 3,050 fps today is no problem with that bullet in that barrel length... something absolutely unheard of in it's day.

Seems to me a 50 - 100 fps gain (or whatever the real gain is) is relatively small by comparison.
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#2799578 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Brad]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
 Originally Posted By: Brad
My question is how in the heck do you get 3K with a 150 in the 270 Win's 23" tube


Mac, how's this fittin the conversation? (really I think I know so never mind)

But being as you asked we'll take this thread for a slight detour. I guess if you work with enough 270's and with enough tubes sooner or later you'll find a quick footed bugger that'll do something like that. The one you're talking about of mine would do it with a book load of R22 and 150 Nozlers. I sure wouldn't be for counting on one doing it very darn often but I've seen it personally once and have a couple of buds who have done it b4 as well.

A fella will see fast tubes, and one will see slow tubes is my way of looking at this gack.
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#2799591 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Mark R Dobrenski]
Brad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 22654
Mark, the point is I don't have any reloading manual that shows, and have never had any 270 tube that would do, 3K with a 150 (22-23" bbl).

I'm absolutely not saying it's not possible because obviously you're getting there, but to further the point, just because I haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not realistic or possible (safely).

I think that relates very well to some of the points you're obviously trying to make here.

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#2799608 - 02/09/09 Re: RL 17 / 300 WSM Load Results... [Re: Brad]
Brad Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 22654
PS Amigo, here's a pic of the full moon rising above the Crazies for ya!

Where we watched those two Antelope bucks fighting was just to the right of the pic:

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