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Anyone here tried to duplicate the 20 ga. WinLite loading? I'm reloading for my 13 year old son and really like the WinLite shells. I cut one open and found 7/8 oz of shot, a WAA20 wad and about 9.8 grains of powder for a velocity of 980 fps. I assume the powder is Winchester Handicap, but don't know for sure. Any help?

How long have you been reloading shotshells?

I've been at it over 20yrs, and being extremely careful would have no qualms against perfectly copying that round if it was possible to duplicate every component - not having a load recipe.

Go to www.Hodgdon.com site. They offer data for 3/4oz and reduced recoil 20ga loads. They also offer 2 1/2inch 20ga data too.

Twas me I'd rather shoot 3/4oz of shot at 1150-1200fps than the load you listed.

StubbleDuck, I started reloading shot shells when I was 15 years old, unfortunately that was 34 years ago. I have always reloaded all my target and upland hunting loads. I shoot probably 5,000 or 6,000 rounds at skeet each year with 28 and 12 gauge guns. I also bird hunt quite a bit using a couple of 28 gauge doubles and three pre 1900, 2 1/2", damascus barreled, 12 gauge english doubles. I, like you, always use extreme care when developing new shotgun loads, especially in regards to pressure. With some of the older guns I shoot, you have to.

My 13 year old just purchased a Beretta over and under 20 gauge for skeet, sporting clays competition and hunting. He started target shooting when he was 10 with a 20 gauge Beretta autoloader youth model. The shells I loaded for the auto needed a little extra "oomph" to operate the action. That extra recoil was negated by autoloader's functioning. So for the new OU, I bought a few boxes(first time in a long time) of the WinLites to try. The recoil was significantly reduced as was the report, and his leads on birds were the same. The kid shoots about 200 rounds a week. The reduced loads should keep it fun for him until he's old enough to step up to a 12 gauge in a few years.

Other than the recoil and noise reduction, what impressed me most about the WinLites was how clean burning they were. That's what motivated me to look for someone who has duplicated that particular load. I know it's 7/8 oz., uses a WAA20 wad and has 9.8 grains of powder. Hopefully, that powder is a standard Winchester powder, but with ammo companies, you never know. I checked the Winchester load data and they have light loads, but they use 12 to 13 grains of Handicap Powder for a somewhat higher velocity than the WinLites. I may just start reducing this loading and see what happens. If I can't figure this load out, I'd probably go to one of the Hodgdon light loads as you suggested. I've been using a light Hodgdon Clays loading for about 15 years in my 12 gauge skeet guns.

Now for the proud dad thing, a picture of my son last fall with his first bird. This blue grouse gave him a fast, downhill crosser, through the trees that he pegged on a snap shot.

Nice pic MW406. Congrats to your son too, for bagging such a great first "gaminal."

You indeed have a lot of experience MW406, and methinks a serious discussion about your first post would digress to "philosophies when choosing certain loads and the reloading and ballistics and physics involved." If you're shooting a 2 1/2inch 12gagger that's 100plus years old, your loads to be safe are probably not generating much more than 5 or 6 thousand LUP, and to do that you certainly must have a really good grasp on building shotshells!

I'm not familiar with the Winchester WinLights, and have to say that I'm no longer a AA fan since Winchester changed the specification on that hull (after 45-50 years that company literally wore out their machinery to make their compression-formed AA and Mk5 hulls. I don't like the new HP AA hulls and the Remington STS is now my goto hull).

But that aside, since you shoot the 28ga - I'd emulate that basic load - 3/4oz at 1180-1200 fps if making a reduced 20ga loading. I haven't even come close to doing the skeet shooting I'd like to, but my understanding is the 28ga gives up nothing to the bigger 12 and 20 gaggers at skeet-shooting distances.

Actually my first real exposure to the 28 gauge was on the shore of the Great Salt Lake in Utah. A game warden had his 28ga Citori with him when we met and spoke, and he informed me of what a "killing machine" the 28ga is with its 3/4oz standard load. That's also when I came to understand "square loads."

Plus my understanding about how effective shot patterns result (in a well tuned and balanced barrel shooting high quality ammo .....), I seriously wonder if 3/4ounce from a 20ga would not be just as effective and fun as a 28ga!

And while I also haven't killed any (valley) quail recently here in WA state, was informed by the owner of the ma&pa gun store I shop that average quail shots are at 16-20yds. I wonder if a full-house 7/8oz 20gauge load at that range would not be abusive on birds that close?

Also, something I'm going to try to do later when (12 and 20) hulls start to crack around their petals and near the end of 2 3/4inch life, is see if I can cut them back to 2 - 2 1/4inches and make reduced loads from those hulls. And data is indeed available! I'd resort to roll crimpimg if it gives slightly more volume.

But regarding your original post, I don't see why you couldn't "tweek" some reduced 3/4oz, 7/8oz or 1oz in a 20 gauge hull - as low as @1000 fps, or 1150-1180 is what I'd strive for.

Besides Hodgdon's site, the fourth edition of the manual "Reloading for Shotgunners" was co-authored by Kurt Fackler, son of Dave Fackler - founder and president and owner of Ballistic Products.

In that 4th ed Kurt Fackler and his pardner include data for 3/4ounce 20gauge shells, 2 1/2inch 20ga shells, 2inch and 2 1/2inch 12gauge shells, and even 3/4ounce and 7/8ounce 12gauge shells. Actually there's quite a few loads listed for 7/8oz 12gauge rounds.

And for whatever reason, the fifth edition of "Reloading for Shotgunners" is a bust! Very poorly written and edited, FYI.

Plus I'd use whatever powder that works - GreenDot, possibly RedDot, possibly AA2, or whatever Hodgdon "Clays" such a light load called for. Ballistic Products offers the wads for those reduced and "shortened" loads I mentioned, although I'd not be averse to also "stacking" my own wad column made from felt or cardboard wads, etc.

StubbleDuck, I'm a big fan of moderate loadings in hunting shells. I shoot 1 oz. in my 2 1/2" guns and 1 1/8 oz. in the 2 3/4" 12 gauges. I load 3/4 oz of 7 1/2 shot in the 28 gauges. I use hard, copper plated shot only and try to keep velocity around 1,100 fps. These loads pattern beautifully which is what makes them so effective.

When I was developing the loads for the old 2 1/2" guns I sent the final one to Tom Armbrust for pressure testing. He fired five of them in a pressure barrel and measured an average of 7,200 psi. My guns are all in excellent condition and have been proof tested. To date, I have probably fired a thousand rounds or so through those old guns with that load and it has worked great.

In regards to the 28 gauges, I use them on blue and ruff grouse, huns, sharptails and an occasional pheasant here in Montana. I have never felt under gunned when using them for these birds. When hunting specifically for pheasants, I take one of the 12 gauges. I know the 28s will work fine but I my "comfort level" is a little higher when using the 12's on the bigger birds.

Here's another photo. This time it's of my 1 1/2 year old setter May and I'm packing a Cogswell 12 gauge.

I shoot a lot of 28, 28, and .410,because of nerve damage in my shoyulder.
the lighter guns help as well as the recoil.
I use te lighter loads in the Hodgdon book, and the Ballistic
Products Clys book, t6hey work great....
Cat