Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Why do I need a guide?

This might stir the pot a bit but.....
Why do I as a Canadian require the services of an Outfitter/Guide to hunt in my own country? Here in Alberta as a resident I can hunt any legal species of game yet travel to another province and all of a sudden I am not qualified to hunt on my own. A deer is a deer, a moose is a moose, an elk is an elk etc.
Move to another province and I am a resident qualified to hunt there after a few months. Other than economics, is there a good reason why this is so?
Just seems to me, if I am born a Canadian then I should be able to hunt/fish as a Canadian.
What say the "Fire?

troutfly;
OK, now you�ve done it!

Until 9/11, it was less hassle for folks in BC to go down to Wyoming or Montana to chase pronghorn than to hunt next door in Alberta. That from folks who tried or did both, not personal experience.

I think I can now go back to the farm in Saskabush and chase whitetails without a guide, but I don�t believe I can chase mule deer with my nephew around Moose Jaw even if he�d guide me.

Frankly I can�t think of a logical reason that these rules are in place other than they were put in place at the behest of the guide/outfitting industry.

If you�ve followed any of the guide/outfitter vs. resident �discussions� that take place here on this side of the hills, you know it�s a hot topic. If you go onto the HuntingBC site sometime when it comes up it makes the Campfire seem downright polite and sedate!

I could see having a guide maybe for �wilderness areas� or for grizzled bears where the neophyte can get beaten on I guess, but that would presuppose one born and raised in downtown Vancouver is better equipped to deal with bears than an Albertan from a ranch near, lets say Edson for the sake of argument.

Anyway, as I�ve said before, I�ve friends who guide and friends who strongly believe there should be no non-resident hunting, so I�ve heard most if not all sides of the debate.

For myself, I�d like to chase mule deer on the Milk River maybe, perhaps with that nephew near Moose Jaw or even near my grandfather�s old spread on the Forty Mile Coulee without having to hire a guide or get a resident sponsor.

Being nothing if not a realist with a slightly pessimistic lean, I�m not holding my breath!

Here�s to a good weekend for you and yours.

Dwayne

troutfly,

I'm not Canadian, but I surely do have an opinion. It's BS and that's all it is. I've no doubt there are some "Guides" who would disagree. Some states in the U.S. also have such restrictions.

This is the last year that Non-Resident Canadians can buy a tag for whitetails in Saskatchewan.I believe next year there will be a draw to limit numbers.This regulation was pushed through by Saskatchewans Guide/outfitters.The Guide Outfitters of BC will make sure that other Canadians cannot hunt big game unguided in BC.They are very successful in their lobbying of Government,to the point where their allocations are increasing while those for BC Residents are decreasing. Monashee

Dwayne, I know I've "gone and done it" with this post. lol

Just thought it was worthy of serious discussion. It is something which I have given much thought to over the years.
And yes, I do know how much of a hot button issue it is in BC.

Seriously though, I feel if one is a Canadian citizen then one should be able to hunt and fish across Canada without the need for a guide. When I was in the Forces, I was posted in Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario. Within a few months of moving to each province, I was deemed a Resident and could hunt/fish/trap at will as the seasons dictated. All I had done was live there for a few months. Move away and all of a sudden you are required to hire a guide to hunt if returning on vacation. What changed other than my address?

I realize there are some who are against anyone hunting/fishing in a province if they do not live there. I also agree that anyone who is not a Canadian Resident should be required to hire an outfitter/guide to hunt, after all those folks are not Canadian residents. Same as if you or I were to travel to another country. What I am struggling with is the concept of being born and bred a Canadian yet being treated as though I am not competent enough to find my way in the wilds of Canada.

I am a "Resident Hunter" ie I only hunt where I live but I do live in Canada. I'm not a trophy hunter, I hunt for food and pleasure. I would like to climb into my truck and and just head out across this great land of ours and hunt and fish at my leisure. Tired of Rotten Ronny burgers on the road? Look over there, that is a nice cutline over there beside that beaver pond. I sure do like pan fried trout along side roasted fresh grouse breast, but dang it, I don't live in Newfoundland so I can't legally harvest those grouse.

For the most part, our Fish and Wildlife regulations are pretty much the same Canada wide so that would not be an issue. So yes, you are quite correct in stating that it is likely industry driven. I realize there are folks in Canada who travel across the country to go on outfitted hunts but compared to the money spent by non-resident alien hunters I think that the industry would still survive if Canadians were able to hunt unfettered across Canada.

I'm not suggesting a Canada wide tag, the provinces should still control them as each region has management goals etc. Just factor in X number of tags for the travelling Canadian. Price them fairly and drop the requirement for hiring a guide. I have never been on a guided hunt nor do I want to go on one. I can think of much better uses for the several thousand dollars an outfitted trip often costs. No, I don't holiday in Mexico either, I spend my money at home. (I do visit Branson Missouri fairly regularly but that is because my Mom and Dad live there. We do take in the shows but my reason for being there is family)

I thought it was likely similar in the US. Same thing, there: US resident should be able to hunt hunt country wide w/o guide restrictions in your own country.

The only situations in the USA that require a non-resident to hire a guide is Alaska for Mountain Goat, Sheep and Grizzly/Brown Bear. Non resident aliens in Alaska need a guide for all big game hunting. This was started because there were parties of over 50 hunters coming in from Northern Europe and the First Nations people and the residents got upset which is understandable. If they would have limited there hunting parties to 2 to 4 hunters no one would have complained. I far as I know no other state restricts non-resdient aliens to guided hunts.

In the wilderness areas of Wyoming a non-resident needs a guide. This law will one day be tested in court and if over turned then the Alaskan law will follow. I do not know if it will effect t he non-resident alien law.

Within the last few years, I have become aware of a number of Canadian hunters in my home state of Montana. I understand one wanting to hunt antelope. One of the reason is that they are here is because of the guide laws in Canadian for non resident hunters. If one is from eastern Canadian and wants to hunt elk in Canadian then they must hire a guide so instead they come to the states -- I welcome them. I am not for allowing Americans to hunt in Canadian without a guide because the same situation would happen that happen in Alaska.

The best kept secert is New Zealand. One does not need a guide as of yet.

Caribou hunting: non-residents can only obtain the hunting licences for sector B of zone 22 winter and for the zone 23 (north) autumn and winter. Non-residents must use the services of an outfitter. A specific licence is available for non-residents domiciled in Canada.
White-tailed deer hunting: non-residents are not entitled to hold a licence to hunt antlerless deer (random draw) or a 1st harvest antlerless deer hunting licence (random draw).
Moose hunting: non-residents are subject to the measure that applies to the zone licence (see page 8). He may however use his licence even if it is bought during the firearm hunting season. He cannot be the holder of a moose cow hunting licence (random draw).
Black bear and american woodcock hunting: non-residents must make use of at least two services of an outfitter, including lodging, unless they are hunting this species in a wildlife sanctuary or a controlled zone (zec). Furthermore, the non-resident who hunts black bear at an outfitter without exclusive rights in zones 13 and 16, must in addition to his regular bear hunting licence, be holder of a special licence issued by this outfitter.


taken from http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/english/...ulations/special-rules/non-residents.asp

can be understable for Caribous as most hunters never been in the far north and are urban so mostly we can agreed on that but and for canadian from other provinces there is a specific tag ... that question is so true for black bear and woodcock nothing can tell me why ...!!

Yeah, I hadn't checked for all 50 states, but the Alaskan example was what stood out to me when I first saw this thread and made my first post. I hope it does get challenged and falls. I can understand with foreigners, especially if coming in such large groups. But I fail to understand the need for Alaska to restrict American citizens that way; likewise, for Canadians in their country.

I think BC30 hit the nail on the head when he blamed the guiding industry. They're the only ones that have a stake in it so they're the logical suspects.

You think it's bad down there, try moving North. 2 years to become a resident to hunt big game. Then deal with the "private lands" in the various settlement areas and it's near enough to make you want to move.

That is one of the reasons I never tried to get a posting to Yellowknife. Most postings to areas like that are only two years so I would have been living in paradise yet unable to sample it without spending mega bucks.

This a good discussion. That was my reason for posting it, just to get folks thinking and some honest, non BS opinions. I truly feel that one should be able to hunt anywhere in your own country but as BC30 said, it is an industry driven requirement.
Can it be changed, I don't know? Constitutional challenge?
It is interesting that the Outfitter/Guide industry hasn't the same sway as here in Canada.
Have a great weekend folks.

Money.

Okanagan;
If I wanted to, I could have written a response that succinct too�.

OK, maybe not�.

Oh, they are starting to get some cherries in Osoyoos I hear. Is there any particular type that you are looking for?

Dwayne

Hi Dwayne,
I guess that means the BC fruit trucks will be in Medicine Hat soon. Sure is nice to get fresh cherries, buy a basket and they don't always make the 15 min drive home.
Have a great weekend,
Jeff

The main political reason for exclusion of / discrimination against non-resident Canadian hunters is the Natural Resources Transfer Agreement dated about 1935. The feds gave up the administration of non-migratory wildlife. Each province has exclusive jurisdiction over wildlife resources, - and in every province, the attitude is "the rest of Canada be damned". One of the many ways our federation is less than perfect. Our wildlife department is not legally required to cater to non-voters, so they gouge them or shut them out.
As far as mule deer hunting is Saskatchewan goes, ( or Elk for that matter) it never was available to guided hunters, so the argument that the restriction is due to the outfitters is not logical. Mule deer and Elk have been restricted mostly because of supply and demand, and the influence of the Wildlife Management advisory board, which has been strongly influenced the the Sask Association of Rural Municipalities. SARM has lobbied against out of province hunters on our agricultural land for some time.
It is kinda sad if access to whitetail hunting is becoming more restricted to other Canadians though, I wasn't aware of that.

Jeff;
Thank you kindly, we will do our best to do that.

As it was a late spring here, I'm not sure how many cherries there will be.

I live here in the apple growing part of the world and I prefer cherries.

You folks have a good week end as well Jeff.

Dwayne

castnblast;
Thanks for that explanation, I either forgot that was the case in Saskatchewan or never knew in the first place.

Thanks again and I hope you and yours have a good week end.

Dwayne

Dwayne, thanks for the update. We're after the dark red cherries: Bings, Lapins, etc. I think the yellow ones like Royal Anne ripen first.

I'm heading to a wedding in Merrit today and it is tempting to go on over the hill. If you're around your computer this morning, PM me. Another week sounds like it would be closer to prime cherry time.

The simple fact is that hunting and fishing is regulated by the provinces,not by the federal government.As such,each province can do as it pleases.

We have the same instances here in the states. A hair dresser can move to Alaska and hunt all manner of game on their own after a year. As a nonresident I will need a guide for brown bear, sheep, goats, and musk ox. Same if I want to hunt in a wilderness area in Wyoming for elk. I'll need a guide there, but not on the rest of their national forest.

Me thinks it's due to successful politicing by the guides and outfitters. If one can not generate a product or service that will stand on its own in the market place, have the government mandate it use.