24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
FreeMe Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
Originally Posted by safariman
OK, I admit it. I just dremeled a WHOLE BUNCH on my perfectly good,much loved, awesome feeding RIA 10mm....


Well, there ain't much to risk on a chocolate gun, eh? wink


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




BP-B2

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
FreeMe Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by FreeMe


IMO, no one should be touching a tool to a ramp or a barrel unless they have the skill and the tools to check if the geometry is correct.
Been throating barrels and polishing feed ramps for decades, I don't have any tools to check if the geometry is correct. Honestly, I'm unaware of any such tools.

No geometry changes should ever be made. Polishing a feed ramp involves taking as little metal off the feed ramp just to remove any machine marks up; geometry shouldn't come into play.

Throating a barrel that has not been throated means taking the throat that's already there and carrying it up about 80 degrees on either side. The geometry of the throat never chances, nor should there be any less support on the case head. I will check with a fired case periodically, but it's a visual check (you I can eyeball down to a thou).


Kevin, I figured y'all would know I'm not talking about that kind of work. Maybe you haven't noticed as many posts as I have where guys have taken recent production 1911's and as much as admitted to removing enough metal to change the depth, angle, what have you, of the barrel throat and/or frame ramp. Maybe I exaggerate the frequency of it - but I bet for every reported incident, there are several others.

And all I'm referring to is simple measuring tools and math - and the knowledge (or references) of the proper measurements (which would result in the proper geometry). Probably bad terminology on my part.

I know that you know it doesn't require the use of power tools to remove a little burr or minor machine mark (ridge). And I know that you know the difference between a raised edge and a gouge. I'm definitely not speaking to the actual gunsmiths here.

And I fixed that last line for ya, BTW. wink


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by FreeMe


IMO, no one should be touching a tool to a ramp or a barrel unless they have the skill and the tools to check if the geometry is correct.
Been throating barrels and polishing feed ramps for decades, I don't have any tools to check if the geometry is correct. Honestly, I'm unaware of any such tools.

No geometry changes should ever be made. Polishing a feed ramp involves taking as little metal off the feed ramp just to remove any machine marks up; geometry shouldn't come into play.

Throating a barrel that has not been throated means taking the throat that's already there and carrying it up about 80 degrees on either side. The geometry of the throat never chances, nor should there be any less support on the case head. I will check with a fired case periodically, but it's a visual check (you I can eyeball down to a thou).


Kevin, I figured y'all would know I'm not talking about that kind of work. Maybe you haven't noticed as many posts as I have where guys have taken recent production 1911's and as much as admitted to removing enough metal to change the depth, angle, what have you, of the barrel throat and/or frame ramp. Maybe I exaggerate the frequency of it - but I bet for every reported incident, there are several others.

And all I'm referring to is simple measuring tools and math - and the knowledge (or references) of the proper measurements (which would result in the proper geometry). Probably bad terminology on my part.

I know that you know it doesn't require the use of power tools to remove a little burr or minor machine mark (ridge). And I know that you know the difference between a raised edge and a gouge. I'm definitely not speaking to the actual gunsmiths here.

And I fixed that last line for ya, BTW. wink
I hear ya, and I agree.

BTW, you can eyeball down to a thou; probably have done it more times than you ever know.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
FreeMe Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
Originally Posted by GunGeek
....BTW, you can eyeball down to a thou; probably have done it more times than you ever know.


Well...without checking it with a measuring device, how would I know? laugh


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,812
J
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Sleepy
Campfire 'Bwana
J
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,812


A lot of smiths throat and polish feed ramps incorrectly. A 1911 does not need a polished feed ramp to function properly. What a 1911 needs is a feed ramp that is the proper angle the proper distance from the magazine. Normally only a few thousandths needs to be removed to acquire proper function. FreeMe is more correct than many are giving him credit for.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
IC B2

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
FreeMe Offline OP
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,235
When I had more time to waste, I used to do a lot of reading at m1911.org. There were/are a lot of "help me" threads there, and some of the close-up photos would be shocking to you guys. I remember one in particular (I think that was where I saw it) that showed the bottom edge of the barrel actually cupped away from the breech after the owner had dremeled deeply. The excessive clearance to the top of the frame ramp was obvious even to my eye.

Wish there was an easy way to compile all the photos of and direct references to frame ramps that were "polished" (with dremel) into oblivion. Nice and shiny, those ramps. Top edges rounded over, and all. A compilation of those would make your hair stand on end.

And yeah, MM - I seem to recall a few photos of a ruined aluminum ramp floating around there....


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Originally Posted by jwp475


A lot of smiths throat and polish feed ramps incorrectly. A 1911 does not need a polished feed ramp to function properly. What a 1911 needs is a feed ramp that is the proper angle the proper distance from the magazine. Normally only a few thousandths needs to be removed to acquire proper function. FreeMe is more correct than many are giving him credit for.
JWP's right, it's almost NEVER the feed ramp that is the issue unless:

A - Someone has ruined it
B - It was done incorrectly from the factory.

I've seen feed ramps with BAD machine marks and the gun still fed well. It's usually the magazine, barrel throat, extractor, or breech face if there is an issue; very rarely is it the feed ramp.

Back in the day it wasn't uncommon for feed ramps to need some serious attention on non-Colt 1911's. There were a lot of cast guns that had feed ramps that weren't cut deep enough (not horribly uncommon on Essex), or were under-cut badly (AMT & Vega were famous for under-cutting). The nice thing about Essex frames is if you encountered this (which wasn't all that common), the fix was easy. A feed ramp cut too deep is a cast iron be-otch to fix.

As a gunsmith I recognize that polishing the feed ramp, while unnecessary; is just an expectation from customers. So I do it because that's the expectation. They feel all warm and fuzzy if they can comb their hair in their feed ramp. But guess what, I haven't done it on my 1911's because it's just not needed.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by safariman
OK, I admit it. I just dremeled a WHOLE BUNCH on my perfectly good,much loved, awesome feeding RIA 10mm....













On the Rosewood CT GRIPS that I just put on it! I did not and will not touch the metal parts with any kind of cutting tool. The grips were pretty fat and slippery, and can be removed/replaced in seconds with only the removal of four screws. I dremeled in a way for my thumb to reach the magazine button as well as get a better overall grasp of things, and a place for my fingertips to reside and grip on the left panel of the grips. Last I heard, the grips don't have much to do with function so long as one can keep a firm hold of the gun.

I also added skateboard tape to the front of the non checkered grip frame.


Boy you really screwed things up now that gun will never work again. laugh

How you doing BTW?


Yeah, I had better go test it out today.

I am feeling a bit worse, have to sleep a lot etc. but I FINALLY have paperwork in hand and all of the approvals (Insurance co, my Nephrologist, their chief of the Kidney Transplant center) to now be an official patient of the U of W Kidney Transplant center aka Virginia Mason transplant hospital. So, whhile I feel pretty craappy a lot of the time I try to live life to the fullest my body will allow me, and I am hopeful and excited about the future now. Getting a Nurse coach conversation today, then off to a 3 day battery of tests and testing to determine my Kidney match markers etc.

THANK YOU for asking!


Your welcome. Hope all works out okay for you.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Originally Posted by jwp475


A lot of smiths throat and polish feed ramps incorrectly. A 1911 does not need a polished feed ramp to function properly. What a 1911 needs is a feed ramp that is the proper angle the proper distance from the magazine. Normally only a few thousandths needs to be removed to acquire proper function. FreeMe is more correct than many are giving him credit for.


Dang something we both agree on. smile That's how I ended up with a full ramped Colt 1911.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Originally Posted by FreeMe
When I had more time to waste, I used to do a lot of reading at m1911.org. There were/are a lot of "help me" threads there, and some of the close-up photos would be shocking to you guys. I remember one in particular (I think that was where I saw it) that showed the bottom edge of the barrel actually cupped away from the breech after the owner had dremeled deeply. The excessive clearance to the top of the frame ramp was obvious even to my eye.

Wish there was an easy way to compile all the photos of and direct references to frame ramps that were "polished" (with dremel) into oblivion. Nice and shiny, those ramps. Top edges rounded over, and all. A compilation of those would make your hair stand on end.

And yeah, MM - I seem to recall a few photos of a ruined aluminum ramp floating around there....


Here's some bad ones

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

IC B3

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,564
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,564
I don't have the words to express how bad those are............

MM

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
This one

[Linked Image]



Isn't just bad, it's dangerous. The throat on the barrel has been RADICALLY changed to the the point to where he has lost a LOT of case head support. That barrel is not safe to fire.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 27,500
Kevin,

With some of the really bad one's you show here (thank you, BTW). Could the guns be salvaged with the installation of a ramped barrel from a good maker and properly installed? Seems like the only hope for a couple. What say you? Might even be the upgrade the owners were seeking, and really good case head support.

Since my big ten feeds about everything like clockwork, I have left it the hail ALONE.

If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Originally Posted by safariman
Kevin,

With some of the really bad one's you show here (thank you, BTW). Could the guns be salvaged with the installation of a ramped barrel from a good maker and properly installed? Seems like the only hope for a couple. What say you? Might even be the upgrade the owners were seeking, and really good case head support.

Since my big ten feeds about everything like clockwork, I have left it the hail ALONE.

If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!


I would think so. Wilson fixed my Colt by squaring up the frame and putting in a ramped barrel. The sucker is a real shooter now.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,634
Originally Posted by safariman
Kevin,

With some of the really bad one's you show here (thank you, BTW). Could the guns be salvaged with the installation of a ramped barrel from a good maker and properly installed? Seems like the only hope for a couple. What say you? Might even be the upgrade the owners were seeking, and really good case head support.

Since my big ten feeds about everything like clockwork, I have left it the hail ALONE.

If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!
Yes, a ramped barrel could fix everything.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by safariman
Kevin,

With some of the really bad one's you show here (thank you, BTW). Could the guns be salvaged with the installation of a ramped barrel from a good maker and properly installed? Seems like the only hope for a couple. What say you? Might even be the upgrade the owners were seeking, and really good case head support.

Since my big ten feeds about everything like clockwork, I have left it the hail ALONE.

If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!
Yes, a ramped barrel could fix everything.


It did for me.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
R
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
R
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,055
Those pics give me the shivers... Geez...


Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,450
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by FreeMe
When I had more time to waste, I used to do a lot of reading at m1911.org. There were/are a lot of "help me" threads there, and some of the close-up photos would be shocking to you guys. I remember one in particular (I think that was where I saw it) that showed the bottom edge of the barrel actually cupped away from the breech after the owner had dremeled deeply. The excessive clearance to the top of the frame ramp was obvious even to my eye.

Wish there was an easy way to compile all the photos of and direct references to frame ramps that were "polished" (with dremel) into oblivion. Nice and shiny, those ramps. Top edges rounded over, and all. A compilation of those would make your hair stand on end.

And yeah, MM - I seem to recall a few photos of a ruined aluminum ramp floating around there....


Here's some bad ones

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


HO LEE FLUK

MM was right, words cannot begin to express

Last edited by Boococky; 07/22/14.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
-Thomas Jefferson
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
689 members (10Glocks, 10gaugemag, 06hunter59, 222Sako, 257 roberts, 222ND, 74 invisible), 2,793 guests, and 1,332 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,628
Posts18,398,765
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.201s Queries: 16 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8982 MB (Peak: 1.0685 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 16:05:34 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS