Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing What to usefor a matte oil like finish on stock

For an easy to use finish that replicates the Winchester finish, you need to check out Timberluxe. The Timberluxe website has a video showing how to use the product to repair a stock's finish without stripping and completely refinishing. I have used both Timberluxe's stain and finish on a Winchester 52 Sporter that had too light wood. The stain penetrated the existing finish and Timberluxe finish gave the stock the proper red/brown color and appropriate oil finish level of sheen.

Wouldn't "penetration" compromise the integrity of the original finish, thus establishing a shaky foundation for anything you lay down on top of it?

It would but paint does not really "stain" if you catch my drift.

Worked fine for me, you should give it a try before being so quick to offer criticism.

The fact you think I have not tested it is funny... There comes a point where the obvious is just that. I do not ever guess without pointing out it is a guess.

gunswizard, you may have noticed that Sitka only offers criticism. Maybe at one time he offered help or useful suggestions, but now all he does is rant at anyone with any sort of idea that they didn't get directly from him. Undoubtedly, he does know what he's doing and may even be quite good at it, but his attitude is 'somewhat' negative. He could offer helpful suggestions just as easily as he rants on. It does occur to me that if he actually did that, others may pick away at his suggestions and he could wind up being exposed, as was the Wizard of Oz in the movie of that name - just an old guy with a megaphone and no more knowledge than anyone else.

Honestly, I wish he did offer suggestions or tips. I'd be willing to listen, and heaven knows that it'd be much more pleasant than what he spouts nowdays.

Work hard for an even, lint/dust speck free finish. Then rip the hell out of it with great big scratches using steel wool. Then partially fill in the scratches with soft paste wax so it doesn't look absolutely like hell because the scratches are too big and all different sizes.

See, Sitka isn't the only critic here.

I believe it was Sitka who explained the method of starting with an oil modified varnish and increasing the proportion of oil as you go. That method has been around a long time. Then, when the finish is as hard as it gets rub down with pumice on felt pads, or FINE abrasive of choice. That makes uniform fine scratches in the finish which cuts the gloss to the level you like. Or you can just use Tru-Oil which is an oil modified resin. (Resin sounds better than varnish.) No point in thinning it except it's easier to get the first few applications on (brush). Yes it is more work.

The only use I've ever had for steel wool is to level a finish and that was before nonferrous alternatives.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there is no accounting for taste. But I feel better getting that off my chest after holding back on this and the other thread.

Haters just gotta hate...

Where was your earliest exposure to increasing the oil cut on a spar varnish finish? I have no references to it older than about 30 years. My father wrote about it then in Guns and Ammo...

I think Newell mentioned using oil with resin in changing proportions but I could very well be wrong. The book "Gunsmithing" did mention using oil with resin and as I recall increasing the proportion of oil in the later coats. "Gunsmithing" was a reprint of articles published by Wolfe, the book is out on loan so I can't check. I'll check Newell's book.

I must have gotten the varying proportions idea from an article in "Gunsmithing."

Newell, "Gunstock Finishing and Care," 1949, Stackpole

p. 131
Formula #5
Boiled linseed oil 4 oz.
Spar varnish 3 oz.

The two constituents are merely mixed together. Standard rubbing application, the same as for the other formulae, should be used.

The presence of spar varnish will increase the water resistance of the final film to a great extent. Inasmuch as these varnishes normally are not brittle adhesion will be satisfactory. Excellent lustre will be obtained from the use of this mixture and resistance to handling will be much greater than that of oil used alone. [Emphasis added. See "Oil Rubbing A Varnished Stock" below.]

Personally I do not see the value of using drying oils with varnishes. If you wish the lustre of the varnish then use it alone as mentioned in the chapter on varnishes. Great lustre obtained from the use of such varnishes may easily be cut down by the use of abrasives and rubbing compounds.

p.168 - This one always stuck with me, it's the process more than the materials.

I remember one of the first stocks I ever finished for anyone. I had a really good rubbed varnish finish on it and it looked like a million bucks, if I may say so. There was an overcritical lad who strayed in and saw it and he let me know that "that sure looks a lot better than those *'$%&# varnished stocks you had in here a while back. What have you got on that one, anyway?" At that point I casually mentioned something about a "special resin solution" and let it go at that.

p. 174

Oil Rubbing A Varnished Stock

Maybe some of you want the old Dull London Oil Finish which has been so long admired and so seldom produced. This can be effected over the fine, durable varnish base by actually using oil... We built up our primary film when we built up the varnish coating on the wood.

Once you have gotten this builtup varnish base take a boiled linseed oil and spread a little on the stock. Then, using the palm of your hand, really go after it. Rub as hard and as fast as you can. Spread the oil completely over the stock in a very thin film until the film is so warm and thin that it seems almost dry. You will not need more than about ten drops of the oil to completely cover the stock. Set the stock away in a fairly warm place for 36 hours, or until the oil seems to have completely dried. You can tell this point as the oil will remain tacky or sticky while unoxidized. As long as the stock has the least little bit of stickiness to it forget about putting any more oil on it. You can rub it from time to time while it is still wet but that is all.

When the oil has dried examine the stock. It will not have taken on the appearance you want, but it will be a start. Go after it again with another treatment of the boiled oil, rubbing hard and fast all the time. It will take about three treatments [ At least! - ed. ] to give you what you are after. You will find, however, that the stock takes on the rich, rubbed appearance of the true Dull London Oil Finish that no other treatment will bring out. When your final coat of oil has been applied and has hardened well you can then polish with the rottonstone and felt.

While these are similar in ways they are still miles apart as application methods, which is the point with my suggestion.

BLO is junk for finish...

The concept of starting with straight spar varnish and adding oil to refill the container is so the make-up of the finish will change gradually as you get closer to the surface.

Being well past the days of expensive finish oil, application with a heavy hand, allowing it to dry and wiping dry is hugely easier than the above methods.

Adding a top coat of oil works on most varnishes, but not all. It would be a shame to go through a bunch of work just to find out it does not work...

The method I detailed I believe was unique at the time my father started using it, significantly more than 30 years ago. He changed to epoxy base coats before the oil in spar varnish article was published.
art

Well yeah. I included the stuff by Newell to show that he considered oil/varnish at some level and wasn't particularly impressed, preferring varnish. His opinion of course. And I thought those reading along might be interested in a little more detail.

As I recall the proportions of Formula #5 (3 parts varnish, 4 parts oil) is about where I noticed the character of the film begin to change. Going past 3 parts varnish and 6 parts oil and it looked about the same. Wish I'd kept notes.

I think that the addition of oil makes application easier but that may just be my technique. I started out with Tru-Oil. I tried boiled linseed and tung oil alone and while I wouldn't call them junk for finish I was less than thrilled and no contest on utility. And to reiterate the point it does look nice over varnish but not very durable insofar as the drying oil film is concerned.

I've never had good results using the gunk on - wipe off method. Not that there's anything wrong with it but it doesn't work for me. It seems that there are enough subtle differences in technique and maybe workshop conditions that one method will work well for one guy but not necessarily for the next.

Apply heavily and wipe dry after a short wait does not look as good initially, but the eventual build is going to happen and the sheen is produced after the fact, regardless of the appearance of the oil.

Old school rub-in produces a weaker finish because the oil is being heated and rubbed around, compromising linking of the polymers. Being somewhat plastic the layer will do some fusing over time, but alligatoring is more likely when layering on varnish.

Maybe I'm too impatient. And then rubbing on a stock makes you feel like you're actually doing something. In an article Carmichel wise-cracked rubbing oil on a stock was a sensual experience. (Rubbing oil on a woman kind of sensual that is!)

this thread is useless without pictures!!!

That's one way to settle the arguments! Post pics

Mike

This discussion is much like the ones arguing over the 260 Remington versus the 6.5 creedmore, or the 270 versus the 06. My point being that the issue will not be settled.

Very early in this chat I mentioned that I was finishing a stock with Waterlox Original in Satin. That stuff is expensive and I've used it on several indoor projects, but never on a gunstock. Review and discussions on the internet said good things about it, and I had some, so I used it. Turned out great. I couldn't be more pleased. Durability, once cured, is an unknown but time will tell. Sure looks good though. I did do a final rub-out with steel wool and wax, which Sitka says will cause the stock to rust out like an old Allis-Chalmers tractor fender. But...I'm not worried.

why not use what a professional stockmaker uses?

http://www.customgunandrifle.com/in...amp;view=article&id=15&Itemid=14

I was just trying to taunt some gun porn high quality wood pics outta folks that I know (Sitka) have a couple safes worth to show off!

Mike

Because Duane is using wood most will never began to match in their stocks. I have seen quite a bit of Duane's work and it is spectacular! But a lot of what he does is stuff that is not done the easy way.

Because the wood he uses is so tight-grained he gets away with sanding some mud into the pores to fill them... AFTER he has them mostly filled.

He has a particular style that he uses and the Alkinet root red stain is a big part of it. It is about taste.

Now don't go giving 603 the idea he is arguing with someone with a clue or he will stop posting his comedy routine...