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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
He was not saved. Here's the quote:

Luke 18:18 A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No-one is good� except God alone.
20 You know the commandments: �Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honour your father and mother.�"
21 "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

He asked what he needed to be saved and Jesus told him he lacked one thing, to give up his wealth. He couldn't be saved until he did that one thing and he refused to do it. He put his money ahead of his soul. Jesus must be first in everything.
Jesus doesn't require us to be paupers. He just requires us to put him 1st. He knew where this man's heart really was.
Cross reference with Matthew 19:21. What he lacked was not what's needed for salvation (unless you suggest that all must sell all they have and become priests or monks), but what was needed for perfection, i.e., to also store up treasures in heaven, in addition to saving one's soul. He was offering him a higher calling than merely to be personally saved, which he understood him to be looking for, but Jesus knew he wasn't willing to pay the price for that.

"We shall do well to recognize that there are two ways of serving God acceptably - there is the good life required from all religious Christians, and there is the life of perfection to which some, by God's special grace, are called, and which they embrace and fulfill. It was the latter life that Christ put before this young man."

- Pulpit Commentaries, H. D. M. Spence (1836�1917)

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Originally Posted by Steelhead
It's AMAZING the amount of stupid I read on the 'Fire. No damn wonder the likes of Obama had no problem getting elected.

There it is, in only 23 words, and only one of them has more than two syllables. 15 are a single syllable! I'd vote for making that a sticky!

Steve.


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Quote
Cross reference with Matthew 19:21. What he lacked was not what's needed for salvation (unless you suggest that all must sell all they have and become priests or monks), but what was needed for perfection, i.e., to also store up treasures in heaven, in addition to saving one's soul. He was offering him a higher calling than merely to be personally saved, which he understood him to be looking for, but Jesus knew he wasn't willing to pay the price for that.

"We shall do well to recognize that there are two ways of serving God acceptably - there is the good life required from all religious Christians, and there is the life of perfection to which some, by God's special grace, are called, and which they embrace and fulfill. It was the latter life that Christ put before this young man."
Now you cross reference that with Luke 18:18. All scripture must be interpreted by other scripture. The x-ref in Luke clarifies Matthew. We can see in the x-ref that he wasn't saved because he was lacking. If he was saved, Jesus wouldn't have told him he was lacking what he needed for salvation. He can't be saved in 1 passage but not in the other.


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Originally Posted by bubbajay
Originally Posted by Everyday Hunter
Originally Posted by Steelhead
I've yet to find a church that exists without money.

You don't get around much. Yes, the most visible churches are visible because of what they do with money, but there are thousands of house churches that try to follow the New Testament. They are not visible because they have lay leadership and give their money away. The third world is full of them, and a movement exists in the United States that is pursuing this model. There could be one in your town without you knowing about it.

Steve.

I am sorry but you really must not get around much.......my grandfather taught me me a few things but this one stuck....
be wary of a church that has to have the nicest building, the newest equipment, and is trying to out-do the neighboring church.

You make me say, "Huh?" I pointed out that there are small, humble churches which are not generating cash for self-fulfillment. Period. Being invisible to most people, they're not competing with other churches. And you tell me "be wary of a church that has to have the nicest building, the newest equipment, and is trying to out-do the neighboring church"? Yes, that kind of church is familiar to all, but I said nothing about that kind of church. What, pray tell, are you talking about?

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Quote
Cross reference with Matthew 19:21. What he lacked was not what's needed for salvation (unless you suggest that all must sell all they have and become priests or monks), but what was needed for perfection, i.e., to also store up treasures in heaven, in addition to saving one's soul. He was offering him a higher calling than merely to be personally saved, which he understood him to be looking for, but Jesus knew he wasn't willing to pay the price for that.

"We shall do well to recognize that there are two ways of serving God acceptably - there is the good life required from all religious Christians, and there is the life of perfection to which some, by God's special grace, are called, and which they embrace and fulfill. It was the latter life that Christ put before this young man."
Now you cross reference that with Luke 18:18. All scripture must be interpreted by other scripture. The x-ref in Luke clarifies Matthew. We can see in the x-ref that he wasn't saved because he was lacking. If he was saved, Jesus wouldn't have told him he was lacking what he needed for salvation. He can't be saved in 1 passage but not in the other.
What he was lacking was the extra mile that would have gained him "treasures in heaven." Jesus was calling him to that (perhaps even martyrdom, as he mentioned taking up his cross), and he declined. He was showing him that he didn't actually want what he was asking Jesus for, particularly due to what it implied, i.e., persecution and (likely) martyrdom for becoming closely associated with Jesus.

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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by RMulhern
My attendance has fallen by the wayside when the Latin Mass was abandoned....and we've had priests which I couldn't understand what they were saying!

Whatever happened to....Benediction and Irish priest??


I'm impressed you understand a Latin Mass!


That was the final straw for me was the end of the Tridentine Mass and the fact that my perpetual missal was THE book one Sunday and was useless the next Sunday. Try as I might I never could get into the "New" Catholic Church after Vatican Council II.

That's also when I realized that the Catholic Church was the Roman Pope's Church i.e. the ancient Roman Emperor's Church and the religion about Jesus or God, NOT the religion of Jesus or God. I left Christianity with no regrets.


I started serving Mass in 1946! The nuns taught us Latin...and I served Mass while in the military quite often up until I was 23 years old!


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That's definitely true Hawk. I know Catholics who have told me that the Church is asking parents to dictate at least one child to the priesthood or nunnery. The numbers are so low that the Church is using lay persons and deacons more and more. When I was a kid I never even knew that the Church had deacons because I never heard of one. We seem to have all the brothers, nuns, and priests the Church needed. Now the Church is hurting.


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Originally Posted by RMulhern
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by RMulhern
My attendance has fallen by the wayside when the Latin Mass was abandoned....and we've had priests which I couldn't understand what they were saying!

Whatever happened to....Benediction and Irish priest??


I'm impressed you understand a Latin Mass!


That was the final straw for me was the end of the Tridentine Mass and the fact that my perpetual missal was THE book one Sunday and was useless the next Sunday. Try as I might I never could get into the "New" Catholic Church after Vatican Council II.

That's also when I realized that the Catholic Church was the Roman Pope's Church i.e. the ancient Roman Emperor's Church and the religion about Jesus or God, NOT the religion of Jesus or God. I left Christianity with no regrets.


I started serving Mass in 1946! The nuns taught us Latin...and I served Mass while in the military quite often up until I was 23 years old!


That was a good point. Back in the old days everybody learned Latin and no matter where you went, no matter the language every Catholic could speak some Latin and one could get by. Not now.

BTW: Full Disclosure, I served a stint or two as a Catholic Chaplain's Assistant in the National Guard.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


You set your ministry up as a part time home business.

Actually you can, not under a charitable contribution, but as a business expense.


Please pray tell how that is done because as a tax preparer I would like to know.


Actually you can, not under a charitable contribution, but as a business expense.

In addition, you can write of the cost of your housing, even if you own your own home:

http://www.jewcy.com/jewish-religion-and-beliefs/home_church_means_big_tax_breaks



Quote


Let's assume the IRS would accept your ministry as a part time business you would have to show you were running your business to turn a profit and I don't see how one could do that. There are special tax laws for minsters but minsters have to be ordained from a credited seminary and work for a 501(C)3 church. It's highly unlikely that the IRS would accept a home ministry and church as a 501(C)3 or business as the potential for profit is not there.


Collect some tithes, perform marriages for a fee, sell some holy water and blessed silver projectiles on fleebay, write it all up in a business plan.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 10/15/14.

You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by derby_dude
That's definitely true Hawk. I know Catholics who have told me that the Church is asking parents to dictate at least one child to the priesthood or nunnery. The numbers are so low that the Church is using lay persons and deacons more and more. When I was a kid I never even knew that the Church had deacons because I never heard of one. We seem to have all the brothers, nuns, and priests the Church needed. Now the Church is hurting.


Hence, the current conference.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by Sako
The catholic Church has always been about money.... They think if they let them in and "accept their money -


That's all that the catholic church is about

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
You set your ministry up as a part time home business.

Actually you can, not under a charitable contribution, but as a business expense.

Please pray tell how that is done because as a tax preparer I would like to know.

Actually you can, not under a charitable contribution, but as a business expense.

In addition, you can write of the cost of your housing, even if you own your own home:

http://www.jewcy.com/jewish-religion-and-beliefs/home_church_means_big_tax_breaks

Well dere it is, right on da Innernet. Muss be true.

Steve.


"I was a deerhunter long before I was a man." ~Gene Wensel's Come November (2000)
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of the user." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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