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Originally Posted by RDFinn

Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by TheKuskokid
The Remington when fully worked over is made to be as close to perfect as possible, whereas the custom is already perfect from the factory.



Or is supposed to be.


I've read right here that even custom actions, from time to time, need a touch up on the receiver face, although much less likely. In the tactical rifle builder circles, there is a guy name Mike Rescigno, owner of Tactical Operations, who builds rifles that are considered by many to be the most accurate tactical rifle made today. Many articles have been written about the extreme accuracy of his Tango 51. His rifles are guarantied to shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yrds using factory Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Mike uses 700 actions and Krieger barrels. One of the things that Mike believes to contribute to the accuracy of his rifles is to "remove as much influence as possible the receiver has on a build...". He also believes that using absolutely min spec chamber reamers yields a more accurate rifle too.


[u][color:#000099][size:11pt]LINK[/size][/color][/u]


RD,
I'll have to raise the BS flag on this guarantee. It won't happen! You'd be surprised how many people would believe that.

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As soon as I started reading RD's post, I thought to myself that's the guy in L.A. I don't remember were I read it but there was a post somewhere maybe the hide saying that guy is FOS and doesn't delieve. Either way I am with Butch.


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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
As soon as I started reading RD's post, I thought to myself that's the guy in L.A. I don't remember were I read it but there was a post somewhere maybe the hide saying that guy is FOS and doesn't delieve. Either way I am with Butch.



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IMHO it all depends on what accuracy you are after and at what distances to a bit.

Answer that and you will get your answer.

Being you have a factory barrel on there, I"d be happy to an extent with that.

A good tube should cut that in half more or less.

Truing will help and I would suspect a custom action might help even more.

But what are you after in the end?

Being that I've owned ARs that are far from custom that run around .3/.4 moa out to 600 yards, just because a good true barrel was put on, we really need to know what you are after.

Not what others want, what you want, regardless of if you need it in any of our opinions or not.


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Originally Posted by ExtremeHunter16
The group buy that Chad Dixon of Long Rifles has going over on Sniper's Hide is about as inexpensive of a truing job I've seen.
For around $750 you'll get his full boat of accurizing, 8-40 scope base holes, recoil lug resurfaced, bolt fluted, barrel chambered and installed, and a full cerakote job.


Not even close to a full action blueprint, as you said it's more an accurizing job!

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I have both and can see no difference in accuracy. All things being "normal", I've always thought the quality of the work put into the chamber and barrel were more important.

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by RDFinn

Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by TheKuskokid
The Remington when fully worked over is made to be as close to perfect as possible, whereas the custom is already perfect from the factory.



Or is supposed to be.


I've read right here that even custom actions, from time to time, need a touch up on the receiver face, although much less likely. In the tactical rifle builder circles, there is a guy name Mike Rescigno, owner of Tactical Operations, who builds rifles that are considered by many to be the most accurate tactical rifle made today. Many articles have been written about the extreme accuracy of his Tango 51. His rifles are guarantied to shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yrds using factory Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Mike uses 700 actions and Krieger barrels. One of the things that Mike believes to contribute to the accuracy of his rifles is to "remove as much influence as possible the receiver has on a build...". He also believes that using absolutely min spec chamber reamers yields a more accurate rifle too.


[u][color:#000099][size:11pt]LINK[/size][/color][/u]


RD,
I'll have to raise the BS flag on this guarantee. It won't happen! You'd be surprised how many people would believe that.


Maybe the fine print of the guarantee states, based on a one shot group form a .25 caliber.






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Originally Posted by Ackleyfan

Not even close to a full action blueprint, as you said it's more an accurizing job!


What am I missing? Here's what is done with his group buy:

A detailed list of services:
Tier One Action Work: (Work performed on a Kitamura MyCenter 2x CNC Vertical Machining Center-a process pioneered by LongRifles, Inc.)
Receiver Accurizing:
1. Resurface Receiver Ring square to bore centerline
2. Helically bore ID of receiver ring bore parallel/concentric to bore centerline
3. Resurface Lug abutments square to bore centerline
4. Qualify lug abutment/receiver ring height to 1.1350”
5. Interpolate/Thread Mill receiver ring to a thread pitch of 1.085-16tpi
6. Qualify Threads with custom built gauging- (we are the first shop to do this)
7. Truncate lead thread of receiver ring to mitigate galling during final assembly
8. Chamfer ID bore/receiver ring
9. Chamfer/relieve bottom of front scope base screw hole/receiver thread intersection.

Receiver Accurizing Options:
1. Helically bore and interpolate/Thread Mill Receiver scope base holes to 8-40tpi on the receiver bore centerline
2. Locate and drill dowel pin holes for pinned recoil lug

Bolt Accurizing/fluting: (Work performed on a Hardinge HLV Tool Room Lathe and HAAS VF1, 4-axis Machining Center)
1. Resurface rearward lug surfaces square to bolt centerline
2. Resurface bolt face square to bolt centerline
3. Mirror polish extractor shoes on factory M700 “floating” extractor

Bolt work Options:
1. Bolt fluting for cosmetic appeal/weight reduction. SIX flute pattern on all fluting work
A. High Helix Pattern
B. Std Helix Pattern
C. Straight Pattern

Barrel Fitting: (Work performed on a Doosan Mecatec 280N II slant bed CNC turning center and HAAS VF1 4 Axis CNC Vertical Machining Center)
1. Measure and document tennon geometry
2. Edit program to individual receiver dimensions
3. Profile barrel tennon
4. Thread tennon to fit receiver threads
5. Setup/select chamber reamer
6. Chamber barrel
7. Chamfer breech ring/entrance to chamber
8. Qualify Headspace to a value of GO+.001”/.002”
9. Cut to finish length
10. Crown ( choice of True 11* Tgt crown or Recessed 11* Hunter Crown)
11. CNC Engrave Cartridge Designation on Barrel Cylinder





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Bolt timing
firing pin bushed
Bolt bushed or a new bolt ground and fitted!

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Quote

RD,
I'll have to raise the BS flag on this guarantee. It won't happen! You'd be surprised how many people would believe that.


His guarantee reminds me of Klienguenther back in the '90's. He guaranteed 1/2" groups at 100 yards with correct hand loads. I purchased one in 1977 and did get it to do half inch with a does H4831 and Sierra 175 grainers. After on jacket seperation on a deer's shoulder I switched to Nosler Partitions and never had a problem. In fact I never recovered one.

Maybe most folks didn't believe him. But I'm with you on the 1/4" stuff with factory ammo.


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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by RDFinn

Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by TheKuskokid
The Remington when fully worked over is made to be as close to perfect as possible, whereas the custom is already perfect from the factory.



Or is supposed to be.


I've read right here that even custom actions, from time to time, need a touch up on the receiver face, although much less likely. In the tactical rifle builder circles, there is a guy name Mike Rescigno, owner of Tactical Operations, who builds rifles that are considered by many to be the most accurate tactical rifle made today. Many articles have been written about the extreme accuracy of his Tango 51. His rifles are guarantied to shoot 1/4" groups at 100 yrds using factory Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Mike uses 700 actions and Krieger barrels. One of the things that Mike believes to contribute to the accuracy of his rifles is to "remove as much influence as possible the receiver has on a build...". He also believes that using absolutely min spec chamber reamers yields a more accurate rifle too.


[u][color:#000099][size:11pt]LINK[/size][/color][/u]


RD,
I'll have to raise the BS flag on this guarantee. It won't happen! You'd be surprised how many people would believe that.


Butch, I take no offense to you or anyone else raising the BS flag. After all, I'm not the one making the claim. I guess I've have to make my point a little clearer, in that Mike builds one of the most accurate tactical rifles available today and many agree that he does as well. He uses 700 actions and that was my point, that a 700 can be made to shoot as accurately as anything out there, but more importantly, 700's also don't need to be completely rebuilt to achieve superb accuracy either.

Here is a little back and forth about his rifles, and the last post in the thread speaks to his accuracy claims. It was written by the owner of SH.


[u][size:14pt][color:#000099]LowLight[/color][/size][/u]


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I’ve decided to go all in on the custom action. I talked to The guy at peirce engineering on the phone and I think we have a good plan started. The 1-11.25” bartlien was what they recomended for 155-175 match kings.

I am not planning on hunting with this rifle. I want something very accurate, and consistantly accurate. It will be for punching steel at varied distances and shooting tiny little groups in paper. I probably won’t do any competition but would never count it out.

The originaly rifle was actually shot very little, but it wasn’t done right from the start. The action wasn’t trued, they just turned down the recoil lug to fit in the tube chassis and went from there. I sold the barreled action to a guy looking for a tactical/hunter, it should fit him better.

My current plan is to have pierce screw on this bartlien barrel and chamber it with a no turn neck 308, throated for 155-175gr match kings with a COL of 2.85” to fit the magazine with a little spare room. Thread the end for a suppressor and send it back to me. I already pinned the scope rail and just need to screw it all together once it gets here.

Thanks for the insights guys.

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Ackleyfan,
Gotcha. Thx

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Rd,
No where did I say he did not build a good rifle. His 1/4" claims are BS.
Also if you read the post on the long rifles guy about what he does should take about 1/3 of what is printed. If you don't ream the raceway and either fit a bolt or bush the OD to match, you ain't got a properly machined receiver. I don't think bushing the boltface and using,say, a .062 firing pin, you are still missing the elements of a custom.
Josh,
I think you made a real great choice in the way you are going with the project.
Rd, I'm not jumping you, just giving my opinion on the guy you posted about and long rifle.

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Another question: how much does a custom action like a Defiance Rebel weigh vs a Rem 700? Short action.

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[/quote]

Maybe the fine print of the guarantee states, based on a one shot group form a .25 caliber. [/quote]

Well that would be a group of 0.0000


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by Ackleyfan
Bolt timing
firing pin bushed
Bolt bushed or a new bolt ground and fitted!
Right about the bolt bushing/sleeving. Without that step (or a larger diameter bolt as you point out) all the other squaring operations are meaningless. Without this step the top lug doesn't touch.

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My post say 1/3 of what long rifle guy said means 2/3 of what he said was superfluous.

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