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So, you know more than one of God's chosen apostles? How do we get this same knowledge?

Actually, it's Paul commenting on how to keep orderly worship in a service that includes the gifts of the Spirit, specifically prophetic tongues.

Some like to use such specific verses out of context as support for other concepts. Sometimes that could be appropriate, but given the particular specificity of this verse, I would doubt such a use applicable.

He seems to be saying that the "litmus test" for being recognized as a "spiritual " person was accepting what Paul wrote as being "God breathed".

Yeah, that might be what he's trying to show, but the verse used refers to the topic of chapters 13 and 14 and does not lend itself well outside that context. What he usually tries to "prove" is the need to be perfectly obedient with all of God's commandments. Of course, this negates the need for a Savior and I doubt Jesus likes that notion much. Just Ringman being Ringman.

Personally, I have no problem accepting what Paul wrote as primarily inspired by the Holy Spirit. I have neither the inspiration or inclination to do otherwise, and genuinely find a good fit with the rest of the Book. Others may differ, but we all have our problems.

If anyone has taken the time to read the first few verses of Apostle Paul's letters to the churches they know he claims to be speaking from God. Therefore I will not post them. But these few verses will suffice to convince the serious Christian What Paul wrote is God's Word for us today. Even Apostle Peter accepted Paul's writing as Scripture.

1 Corinthians 4:6,17
"Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, and he will remind you of my ways which are in Christ, just as I teach everywhere in every church."

1 Corinthians 7:17
"Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches."

Galatians 1:12
"For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ."

1 Thessalonians 2:13
"For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what It really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe."

2 Timothy 2:15-16
"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,"

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."

2 Peter 3:14-18
"Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

Some like to use such specific verses out of context as support for other concepts. Sometimes that could be appropriate, but given the particular specificity of this verse, I would doubt such a use applicable. [/quote]

So very true and to THE point. You see so much of that here at The Campfire and elsewhere regarding these discussions on Religiosity.

Put another way and regarding the above, it can be accurately said that using Text without the Context is merely simple Pretext and nothing more.

Thank you, sir.

Well said.

Were the quoted Scriptures taken out of context? What should They be saying?

Wasn't aimed at you, Ringie.

One of the biggest problems and failures of Biblical discussions, particularly from avowed atheists, is to pick a text and hang their total belief of disregard for the bible on that or a few like that and most especially as it regards the OT and the directives of all of the hosts of Mosaic Laws within.

I think you might agree that whole Chr*stian denominations were created and stand upon singular verses as interpreted by their respective founders. Then, again, maybe you wont.

The main problem with all of, so called, Chr*stianity is that we Chr*stains dwell, disagree and in fight upon our minor or major theological differences as opposed to examining and expounding upon our like beliefs and "The Big Picture".

And the main reason for such strong beliefs and oppositions on them (on the "differences") is that we are discussing the final disposition of our very own, individual, immortal souls! From that, we all want to believe that we and only we are correct and have made the "right" decision as to the religion (or no religion) that we prefer to embrace.

It is all too easy for me to see how someone witnessing this ongoing, everlasting horse schitt would embrace agnosticism or even atheism, wanting no part of any of it. I think this also explains in a nut shell the rapid growth of splinter group Community type churches. Parishioners and members of congregations haven't left Main Stream Churches so much as the main stream ones have left the congregations and veered far away from their core beliefs.

Edited to add: I have no scripture to support any of the above opinions. My free will kicked in. Heh.

That's enough for now.

Old_Toot,

A little rambling....



There is a little Scripture in First Corinthians about people going off in the wrong direction. One is claiming to follow Paul and one is claiming to follow Peter while another claims to follow Christ.

Recently I read an article where college folks claimed to be atheists because they were mad at God.

I agree with you completely about Christian denominations springing up from a verse or two. Or even from no verse at all: Mormons, Christian Science and Jehovah's Witnesses for example.

To me there is nothing minor in God's Word. How many times are we told "In the beginning was the Word" and "The Word became flesh" yet no one in Christendom seems to back off from believing Jesus is the Word. On the other hand "Greet one another with a holy kiss shows up five times. One time I was having a conversation with a Church Of Christ member. He showed me Romans 16:16 to convince me that is the correct name for the Christians.
"Greet one another with a holy kiss. all the Churches of Christ greet you." It reads.

I responded, "The second half of that verse is pretty important, isn't it!?"
"Yes, it sure is," he enthusiastically said.

"How 'bout the first part of that verse? Do you guys obey that?" I continued.

You might guess, that ended our conversation.

One time I worked for a guy who claimed to be a Christian. He flatly said,
"Rich, you're a hypocrite."
"Why do you say that?" I wanted to know. I used to is to I don't get defensive.
"You never greeted me with a kiss."
"Does that tell you something?" I asked.
"What do you mean? You sayin' I'm not a Christian?"
"The men I am convinced are Christians are greeted with a holy kiss by me and they greet me with a kiss."

Jesus tells us, "The heart speaks from that which fills the heart." This boss tried to convince me Apostle Paul made a lot of mistakes. The men I greet unapologetically accept all the apostle's writings as God's Word.

So how can this scholar be so led astray?
Ezekiel 18:24

n from his ways and live? 24"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. 25"Yet you have

Even though the patriarchs and prophets understood regarding the unspotted lamb, I doubt any, but possibly Isaiah, knew God would set aside Glory and become that Lamb to define His Grace for all the world. In that, He was no longer the God of a few, but truly the Father of all.

Jesus was smart not writing scripture. Man's propensity to micro analyse the message to the position of each is, it, a and I... the message is to be lived.

Kent