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Bigriver,

The .270 WSM does not have a 300 fps advantage over the .270 Winchester, at least not when both cartridges are loaded to the same pressure, in the same length barrel. If you are getting 300 fps more in yours, it’s because you’re loading the .270 WSM to higher pressures or the .270 Winchester to lower pressures, or both. This is backed up by all pressure-tested loading data, plus the 4-to-1 Rule.

If you’re expecting similar magical results from the .325, you may get them. But most handloaders won’t.


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On average I'm getting about 70-100 fps more out of my 270WSM than with the standard 270 from 24" barrels.

I got a bunch of Nosler factory 325 WSM 200gr AccuBond ammo for a give-away price and have been using it. I can't beat it by hand loading so far, and it gives right at the factory claimed 2,950 fps with good groups...around 1" out of the Kimber.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
TopCat,

From what I heard from people in the industry, the .325 WSM came about because Winchester couldn't match the ballistics of the .338 Winchester Magnum when using the WSM case. And they had claimed they could match .300 Winchester Magnum ballistics with the .300 WSM, which was true ONLY because the common SAAMI muzzle velocity with 180-grain bullets in the .300 Winchester at the time was only 2960 fps. (Since then there have been two other SAAMI-acceptable velocity levels created for the .300 Winchester Magnum, both higher.)

Winchester claimed that the .300 WSM was able to match the ballistics of the .300 Winchester Magnum due to the magic shape of the WSM case. This was BS. Nobody in any ballistics lab has ever found a smaller case that can match the velocities of a bigger case thanks to any magic case shape. Instead it was due to the somewhat wimpy .300 Winchester factory muzzle velocity.

But the Winchester publicity BS also forced them into a corner with the cartridge many shooters expected, a .338 WSM. They found the .338 WSM case could NOT match .338 Winchester Magnum velocities with 250-grain bullets, because the long bullets took up too much powder room. Also, due to the short magazine, many existing .338 bullets had to be seated too deep inside the .338 WSM case the ogive to remain outside the case neck.

So Winchester side-stepped the whole deal by claiming they'd developed a cartridge equal to the .338 Winchester Magnum using 8mm bullets. This also turned out to be BS, because the only factory-loaded bullet over 200 grains was a Power Point that didn't penetrate nearly as well as the premium 200-grainers also used in the .325. (I know this partly because a hunting companion brought a .325 WSM to South Africa for a month-long hunt I did in 2007. Within a few days his PH told me he had to switch to the .375 H&H he also brought along, with 300-grain Trophy Bonded Federal loads, because the 220 Power Point simply wasn't penetrating deeply enough on larger plains game animals like zebra.)

As a result the .325 turned out to basically be a .300 WSM with slightly fatter bullets, not a .338 with a wide range of bullet weights up to deep-penetrating 250's. And anybody who looked at the downrange ballistics found 180 and 200-grain .300 WSM loads caught up to the .325 180 and 200-grain loads within about 300-400 yards.

That doesn't mean the .325 doesn't work. It does, just like the .300 WSM, or any cartridge with 180-200 grain bullets of around .30 caliber at those velocities. But that doesn't mean it somehow matches the .338 Winchester Magnum, any more than the .300 WSM will match .300 Winchester Magnum muzzle velocities due its magic case shape.


I well remember the marketing--Winchester could just as well named them the WBSM's.

Edited to add, not that they do not serve well but they are not quite equal to their corresponding "long" magnum counterparts, all things being equal. For example, I remember specifically, with the 270 WSM, the Winchester advertisement showed this WSM equaling and beating the 270 Weatherby at four hundred yards with a sleek, high BC bullet compared to a bullet with the BC of a tomato out of the Weatherby.

A little hyperbole there but the point is a real one.

Last edited by George_De_Vries_3rd; 07/04/15.
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Among my little group of enthusiastic friends, there has been a long parade of different calibers and chamberings that have been experimented with over the years in an attempt to find the optimum round that brings the most advantages on live targets in the field.

Mostly all in custom rifles where issues of economy and practicality were not really considerations, and all of them were different, and they all worked well with good bullets.

Like I mentioned previously, I like the 300 WSM for a few reasons, but a 30-06 is similar when loaded to it's potential...and I do have a lot more of those around here..:) I admit to a bias toward 30 cal, but I don't think it's the best.

The 6.5 is a contender, and I think the 7 WSM is closest to being the most perfectly balanced in most respects, and would be my choice for the "optimum" chambering; but my buddies are real impressed with their 270 WSMs, even though it was first looked upon as about the last choice, and solely because of the performance advantage it gives at all ranges over the others!

It gives the most downrange performance they can get for the cost in recoil, and can be run comfortably without a brake in a lighter rifle, and they really like that. Even the slower twist barrels that are commonly available in that bore diameter haven't proven to be a handicap. There are less great bullet choices available, but those that are available are very good and you only need one!

Looking back a decade ago, anyone even suggesting that the 270WSM is where they would end up would have been laughed off the range and forced to buy beer.

This is the reason why there are such stern warnings on this forum not to shoot the donor!

I could make do with any of these rounds, and all will do stellar work if the same amount of intelligent consideration would be directed toward bullet choice as is given to the hole in the back end of the barrel we call a chamber!



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Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
TopCat,

From what I heard from people in the industry, the .325 WSM came about because Winchester couldn't match the ballistics of the .338 Winchester Magnum when using the WSM case. And they had claimed they could match .300 Winchester Magnum ballistics with the .300 WSM, which was true ONLY because the common SAAMI muzzle velocity with 180-grain bullets in the .300 Winchester at the time was only 2960 fps. (Since then there have been two other SAAMI-acceptable velocity levels created for the .300 Winchester Magnum, both higher.)

Winchester claimed that the .300 WSM was able to match the ballistics of the .300 Winchester Magnum due to the magic shape of the WSM case. This was BS. Nobody in any ballistics lab has ever found a smaller case that can match the velocities of a bigger case thanks to any magic case shape. Instead it was due to the somewhat wimpy .300 Winchester factory muzzle velocity.

But the Winchester publicity BS also forced them into a corner with the cartridge many shooters expected, a .338 WSM. They found the .338 WSM case could NOT match .338 Winchester Magnum velocities with 250-grain bullets, because the long bullets took up too much powder room. Also, due to the short magazine, many existing .338 bullets had to be seated too deep inside the .338 WSM case the ogive to remain outside the case neck.

So Winchester side-stepped the whole deal by claiming they'd developed a cartridge equal to the .338 Winchester Magnum using 8mm bullets. This also turned out to be BS, because the only factory-loaded bullet over 200 grains was a Power Point that didn't penetrate nearly as well as the premium 200-grainers also used in the .325. (I know this partly because a hunting companion brought a .325 WSM to South Africa for a month-long hunt I did in 2007. Within a few days his PH told me he had to switch to the .375 H&H he also brought along, with 300-grain Trophy Bonded Federal loads, because the 220 Power Point simply wasn't penetrating deeply enough on larger plains game animals like zebra.)

As a result the .325 turned out to basically be a .300 WSM with slightly fatter bullets, not a .338 with a wide range of bullet weights up to deep-penetrating 250's. And anybody who looked at the downrange ballistics found 180 and 200-grain .300 WSM loads caught up to the .325 180 and 200-grain loads within about 300-400 yards.

That doesn't mean the .325 doesn't work. It does, just like the .300 WSM, or any cartridge with 180-200 grain bullets of around .30 caliber at those velocities. But that doesn't mean it somehow matches the .338 Winchester Magnum, any more than the .300 WSM will match .300 Winchester Magnum muzzle velocities due its magic case shape.


I well remember the marketing--Winchester could just as well named them the WBSM's.

Edited to add, not that they do not serve well but they are not quite equal to their corresponding "long" magnum counterparts, all things being equal. For example, I remember specifically, with the 270 WSM, the Winchester advertisement showed this WSM equaling and beating the 270 Weatherby at four hundred yards with a sleek, high BC bullet compared to a bullet with the BC of a tomato out of the Weatherby.

A little hyperbole there but the point is a real one.


I remember that article. They may have been pulling the wool over some guys' eyes, but didn't fool anyone who knew a thing or 2 about ballistic coefficient and downrange performance. I remember having a good laugh about that particular article. I'm trying to think if it were JRS or Boddington who wrote it...Maybe neither one and I probably still have it in my collection. I was just reading an article earlier today about the 270 and 7mm wsm that was written by MR. Sundra and he explained how the original WSM's (pre production rifles) were all the same length, but someone demonstrated how you could load a 7mm WSM into a 270 WSM and Winchester quickly redesigned the case and gave it a hair more length or pushed the shoulder out a bit more. If some guys want to believe it is a magical design, they have that right. Some guys still like lucky charms too, cause they are magically delicious... whistle


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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The claim I always liked was that WSM's fit in lighter, handier rifles, yet the rifles kicked less than "conventional" magnums.

Don't get me wrong. I've killed a bunch of big game with the .270 and .300 WSM's, from pronghorns to big bull elk. They definitely work just as well as any other cartridges of the same caliber, but they're not magic.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer

Don't get me wrong. I've killed a bunch of big game with the .270 and .300 WSM's, from pronghorns to big bull elk. They definitely work just as well as any other cartridges of the same caliber, but they're not magic.


How true. Everyone wants to think their round is magic but it does the same thing 2 dozen other rounds will do.


Scott
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