Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Can anyone identify this M98?

You won't.



Of coarse they did. How do you think they got prepared for WWII? The fact remains, the Germans were allowed 18000 Kar98's after WWI under the Treaty of Versailles. These were all marked with the 1920 stamp. Later the number was increased to to 50000. I'm sure the Germans had thousands upon thousands of Kar98's left after the war that never saw circulation because of the treaty. A rare number of them were factory refurbished for the Waffen-SS and have the "dirty bird" stamp but these are very, very rare finds. Why would any country besides Germany put that 1920 mark on their rifle? The simple fact that the rifle has 2 dates on it, a German origin (Erfurt) , German proof marks including a German rejection proof mark pretty much proves the rifles origin and history. especially the 1920 re-marking.

Now if that rifle could talk there is no telling how many countries it's been to in it's lifetime, who carried it and what was done with it. Sometimes when I hold these old rifles that runs through my mind.



If you'll go back and look at the NRA page you'll find it's not a complete history. The way Erfurt did it was the small crown on the left side was the the proof mark. The letter under the crown was the actual inspector that proofed the rifle. If you'll look at the OP's picture you'll see the first proof mark (little crown) with a "B" under it. The inspector who did the inspection on that rifle was assigned the letter B and all his inspections could be linked back to him. In the case of the rifle pictured he didn't like what he found and rejected it on it's first inspection, hence the R/C stamp above his proof mark. Later the rifle was corrected and the assembly and function proofs were added.

William, It's been a fun thread and you've added to it. I just don't think there is anything that would indicate this was ever a Swedish rifle. It could have been a Swedish rifle but I've never found anything that distinguishes a Kar98 Swede from a German Kar98 other than the modified magazine box. I think/assume the rifles Sweden bought in 1939 were arsenal storage rifles (new) not the ones that were re-stamped for German use.

That's my best guess - But I'm not at all sure where to find studs that will fit those!

TCI

I want to direct this post to your personal attention, because you have been so helpful, and to renew my thanks and appreciation.

I spent lots of time researching these past days and I found not only a surprising number of gun/shooting/hunting websites but also a surprising number of posts by other owners of the KXA98. Indeed old posts on this website a few years back.

I have seen enough other photos of the receiver stampings to say they are similar to the opening photos here above of the crown and Erfurt with double date stamps. The typeface/font is identical and the crown is also. One little caveat may be that the KAX98 is incorrectly referred to as a "German" Mauser. Here's a link to Prussia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia

So the KAX98 is actually a "Prussian" Mauser. And the crown refers to the Prussian Royalty justifiably.

So the pendulum swung the other way and it now looks as though the rifle above is a legitimate Erfurt product. *( Note also that I did find posts by owners who had KAX98's with stampings obliterated and re-stamped ).

I do not now see any connection, or recycling to, or through, Sweden or Turkey although there is evidence of guns being processes by Turkey and apparently returned. There was no shortage of hanky panky.

I had a lengthy and interesting conversation with Mitchell's Mauser's.

http://www.mauser.org/

I commented that all of their M98's were sold out. He said: not only here in the USA but world wide. They're gone. No more. The price has escalated to $2,000. *( Note I posted that Cabela's had two in their gun library and one private owner in Texas ). Further he said his company has commissioned Serbia to produce new M98's.The order is placed and they are waiting shipment. Price isn't yet set but expected to be around $900. He related a story about a young boy who inherited one of these rifles and re-sold it for $500. It was worth 4 times that according the Mitchell's rep.

There is one little caveat that remains open in my mind. The above custom rifle is 6.5 mmm caiber!

From what I gather Prussian/German military rifles were produced in 7mm - 8mm and in between. There is lots of checkered history that is very time consuming to track. The above rifle was chambered in 6.5mm. A new barrel was installed. That left only the bolt/bolt face to consider. I checked Ken Howells book and found the various 6.5, 7, 8mm case heads were not listed as convertibles or interchangeable. Thus I can't discern if the original bolt was altered or replaced. So the remaining open question is - what was the original caliber of this rifle".

The owners opening question was asking to identify the receiver. The place of origin has surely been confirmed by now but the original caliber still remains open.

The original caliber was marked on the top of the front receiver ring as "7,92". Sorry my pictures left that out.

And MANY THANKS to all who have contributed!

Prussia pretty much ceased to exist as a country when Germany unified in the 1870's. The Prussian monarch became kaiser so imperial Germany used the Prussian eagle as it's symbol. Saying something made in Prussia 50 years after unification isn't German is more than a little like saying something made at Springfield arsenal isn't american because Massachusetts wasn't always part of the US.

Just curious but other than the crown proof mark and the chambering what lead you to believe that the rifle was Swedish?

CZ:

Thanks for confirming the caliber. You have a fabulous rifle. I'm sure that you realize that it has ascended in value now.

Kelly:

I won't try to argue the Prussia/Germany history. My ancestral Bentheimer's are very hard headed and well established here in the USA predominantly in Michigan where my father was born. They organize trips back to the old country every few years. I communicate with the Pastor of my ancestors church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Bentheim

To answer your question:

I owned Swedish Mauser 6.5 mm and numerous other Mauser's. Gave two to my grandson a couple of months ago along with my Mauser Military book. So I was disadvantaged.

From memory I was very much into Swedish King Gustaf 6.5 mm's extensively. Sweden manufactured some Mausers there in Sweden and some came from Germany *( Prussia ).

The 6.5m was an odd ball seemingly unique to Sweden. *( Actually that is somewhat open to further scrutiny because I have further info about other caliber also in the mix over time.

I floated some trial balloon and they were promptly shot down.

At the risk of repeating myself I marvel at the expertise of the gunsmiths who conspicuously have extraordinary talent.

Norway and Sweden used the 6.5x55

Greece used the 6.5x54 MS

The Netherlands and Romania used the 6.5x53R

Portugal used the 6.5x58 for awhile

Italy used the 6.5x52

Right.

I was referring to the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser specific to SAAMI nomenclature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5%C3%9755mm

I knew about Noway. Wikipedia lists only those top countries.

The 6.5 is diameter. The 55 is length. That case only applies to Sweden & Norway. The others referred to were different cartridges.

All too often people are too brief and refer to a caliber only such as 30-06 neglecting the rest of the ID. With all of the wildcats and proprietary cartridges there could be half a dozen 30-06's and even with rimmed, rimless or belted cases.

Right.

But what you wrote was this: "The 6.5m was an odd ball seemingly unique to Sweden.".

What I was pointing out was that multiple countries adopted 6.5mm bore military cartridges, so the 6.5m was neither an odd ball or unique to Sweden.

and Japan used the 6.5x50...

Good catch!

Gustaf made a copy of the commercial FN action.I have owned them.Made in Sweden not Belgium.

Gustav was just one of the brand names that rifles built by Husqvarn were sold under, Norrahammar and FFV being among the others. According to the Husqvarna guys, all of the large-ring 1898 style actions that Husqvarna built on were imports from FN "in the white", without any markings other than Belgian proof marks as required. My understanding is that Husqvarna's Swedish production went directly from the "strengthened" 640 small rings, those without the thumb-slot in the left receiver rail, to the 1640 HVA small ring "improved" 98. This is another time when SBHVA's untimely death has left us with a hole in our knowledge base.

Luxemburg also used the 6.5x55 in the M1900 Mauser.
--Bob

So did Britain and Russia

The Finns also used the 6.5x55, in the 135,000 Mausers they received from Sweden.

There might be another explanation. In the early 1930's, the Swedes adopted the 8X63mm (M32) cartridge for machine gun use. They similarly adopted the M98 Mauser chambered for the same cartridge to be issued to machine gun troops; the reason being that the troops could always use the machine gun rounds and thus simplify logistics. These rifles were manufactured in and purchased from Germany.

Recoil was pretty severe (according to one man I met in Sweden) and the rifles were despised. In the 1970's these rifles were re-barreled for the 7.62X51mm NATO.

It is conceivable that these German made M98's were stamped with the Swedish crown after acceptance.

"Gustav was just one of the brand names that rifles built by Husqvarn ...."

The Carl Gustav factory was the government-owned arms factory; Husqvarna was a privately-owned manufacturing company that produced arms, chain saws and industrial products - no relation to Carl Gustav (whose facilities survive today as a military museum).

Swedish Crown Variations:

see: http://swedishmauser.blogspot.com/2009/02/three-different-crown-stamp-variations.html

You are correct, Carl Gustav is to Sweden what Springfield is to the U.S. However, starting the in late 1960s, Husqvarna made/sold sporters built on the 1900 action under the FFV, Carl Gustav, and Husqvarna brands, as well as the Tradewinds and S&W brands for the U.S. market.

I have a FFV/Carl Gustav in 30-06, #5093xx, that is built on a 1900 action.

There has been some discussion on this topic on the Gun Boards Swedish section and Stuart Otteson wrote about it in one of his bolt action books, I think Volume 2.