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In your examples are you saying the glass is 6X and the lens is 24mm?


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My bad man it's a 6x24x56, a 4x16x56 and a 3x12x56. Outta all mine ziess are still my favorite for low light hunting, just haven't had anything that outperforms one, this is far past legal shooting times btw. Schmidt is awesome and as consistent a glass as I've ever used but has more glare than I like for a 2000 scope. Meaning at dusk looking into the west they have glare that others do not. It's only at power above 8x or so though .Someone mentioned the vx6 and it's an awsome scope. Been running one and love it. Great glass but they've had the glass part down a while, they finally opened the angular fov to match many of the German scopes with the new eyepiece, that's why so many like it. It's hard to beat imo short of the absolute top scopes made, think sb, German Zeiss-hensoldt and Swarovski top end stuff. Forget the ads like coating and sells pitches, only thing that matters to me is I can or cannot see my target while hunting and a big Zeiss can't be beat. This Has been my experience the last 15 years anyway. Good thing is there's lots of great scopes out there without having to spend a small fortune.

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Originally Posted by ingwe
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by ingwe
Marketing hints: 50mm objectives on one inch tubes are pretty much a marketing gimmick, they work better on 30mm tubes....56mm obj beg for a 30mm tube, and usually have it.


What's your basis for this?



This is the optics forum. You can say anything you want, with minimum actual knowledge, and zero actual usage.


But basically I based it on who I saw buying them, and what they were buying.....3x9s predominantly...cranked up to 9x it gave you a whole 4mm exit pupil, really 'gathering' light there! Same thing your old 3x9x40 would give them at 8X.
But John Q. Public lined up to buy them, and the craze eventually died down....

However there is no place better to sell the " Bigger is Better" concept than in America!

As for the 30mm tubes,looking at exit pupils on them it was easily apparent they transmitted more light, though I never bought or used one personally. ( Since the garden variety 3x9x40 will allow you to shoot anything during legal hours...)

Now, Im gonna go ice down some bourbon, and attempt to wash my sins away!




grin


I agree on all points except the purpose of a 30mm tube. A 30mm tube gives you added windage and elevation movement in the errector system over a 1 inch tube.

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Originally Posted by fishybobtrout


But my question would be has anyone noticed if a more reasonably priced scope for example a VX-2 with a 50mm objective would be better than the VX-3 with a 40mm objective in low light? Or do the better coatings in a higher tier scope, of any brand really I just happen to like Leupold, trump the objective size?


Bob.


That is the heart of your post. The quality of glass is the key. I do not think you would percieve any quantifiable difference between the VX-2/50 and the VX-3/40.

This was settled for me many years ago. I have a farmer friend whose motto for deer hunting is, "they only come out 15 min. before dark." Base on that, he went out and bought a "low-light" scope...a 3-9 X 50mm Tasco.

He asked me to sight it in for him, as he does every year. What a waste of metal. Worst scope I ever looked through. For years I hunted with a Leu. 1.5-5 X 20. Best low-light scope I ever used for my type of hunting. Putting the rifles side-by-side, my little 20mm scope shed a lot of light on the subject.

Short answer. First is good glass. Stay with what you have. To your question about the K-series Weaver. The glass in your Leu is better.

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Having owned and run about every mid to high end optic out there except for USO extensively I will add :

As mentioned the tube diameter increase from 1" to 30mm has nothing to do with light gathering and every thing to do with both windage and elevation travel.

There is a formula for exit pupil but it doesn't fit every bill due to the variables in scopes due to the difference in glass quality, coating quality and the actual status of of the particular eye viewing through the scope. Since everyone of us has a different eye including different numbers of rods, cones and lense qualities this formula simply can't apply to all situations.

In general the best combo is to have great glass + great coatings + lower magnification + large objective.

For my eye great glass with 3x and 40 mm front objective doesn't come close to a great glass 3x with 56mm objective in low light, clarity or any other realm except for the weight savings.

Also someone brought up the point of the toilet paper roll.. the Europeans have known for years that if you block out the ambient light from entering your eye around the rear ocular that you will get a much better and brighter sight picture in low light situations. It will blow your mind if you have not tried it.. Web search "Rifle scope eye cups for something better than toilet paper rolls".

Until I find something better I will continue to run Kahles 3x12x56 on rigs where long shots are not the norm. On rigs that may see long range that need to retain the ability to shoot close in low light then the NXS 56mm in both 3.5x15 and 5.5x22 come into play. The Kahles beats the NF in Clarity and weight savings but doesn't dial.

The newer Tactical Kahles line loose against the NXS in weight and pricing.

I have found no better combinations out there and I truly am happy but bored with the optics that I currently run..


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Originally Posted by Strick9
Having owned and run about every mid to high end optic out there except for USO extensively I will add :

As mentioned the tube diameter increase from 1" to 30mm has nothing to do with light gathering and every thing to do with both windage and elevation travel.

There is a formula for exit pupil but it doesn't fit every bill due to the variables in scopes due to the difference in glass quality, coating quality and the actual status of of the particular eye viewing through the scope. Since everyone of us has a different eye including different numbers of rods, cones and lense qualities this formula simply can't apply to all situations.

In general the best combo is to have great glass + great coatings + lower magnification + large objective.

For my eye great glass with 3x and 40 mm front objective doesn't come close to a great glass 3x with 56mm objective in low light, clarity or any other realm except for the weight savings.

Also someone brought up the point of the toilet paper roll.. the Europeans have known for years that if you block out the ambient light from entering your eye around the rear ocular that you will get a much better and brighter sight picture in low light situations. It will blow your mind if you have not tried it.. Web search "Rifle scope eye cups for something better than toilet paper rolls".

Until I find something better I will continue to run Kahles 3x12x56 on rigs where long shots are not the norm. On rigs that may see long range that need to retain the ability to shoot close in low light then the NXS 56mm in both 3.5x15 and 5.5x22 come into play. The Kahles beats the NF in Clarity and weight savings but doesn't dial.

The newer Tactical Kahles line loose against the NXS in weight and pricing.

I have found no better combinations out there and I truly am happy but bored with the optics that I currently run..


As I understand it the formula for determining exit pupil applies to all scopes regardless of glass quality or coatings. Divide the objective lens diameter by the magnification for exit pupil diameter.

If you have a variable with larger objective you can use a higher magnification to get the same width exit pupil. As mentioned, everyone's eyes are different and one person might be able to see better with a 50 MM objective at 8X while another may do better at 6X or 7X.

If I'm hunting late in the afternoon, I'll play with the power setting to see what magnification lets ME see best regardless of what theory says about how big a 65 year old's pupil will get in low light.


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It does apply but only to exit pupil not to actual light transmission of different glass which is what actually matters and totally different.

Take two scopes with same exit pupil now decrease the light transmission of one glass or add a coating that works for one eyes wavelengths and not anothers and you have a different story.. As mentioned the eye can only use so much light as can enter the pupil.

I know that per the formula and the transmission of glass that I have unusable light coming in from my scopes which is far better than not enough.

I agree with adjusting your scopes power setting to give you the best light performance at that exact time of day or daylight available.

Last edited by Strick9; 09/10/15.

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