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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,962
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,962 |
"Buffing the ballistic banana," LOL, very apropos.
When the thread is done, he'll be ready for a cold beer.
Wanker Steam Ale most likely.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,866
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,866 |
Sorry but a 1.76" load doesn't work in a 1.7" cylinder.
Obviously, the .45 runs away at equal pressure. It has greater case capacity. Which is why I always say it doesn't even really come into its own until you get into five-shot territory. At which point, I'd rather have a .475 or .500. It's irrelevant in this case because the guns are not of equal strength and cannot be run at equal pressure. And if you're going to run the .45 at 40,000, then let's run the .44 at 50,000. I've never experienced a problem seating a bullet a few thousands deeper when needed. Subtract .5 grain and truck on. Not difficult at all.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124 |
Okay, so let me get this straight. The .45Colt overshadows the .44Mag if you can actually get bullets with a larger 80% meplat, use .454 data with bullets seated all the way to the end of the cylinder, forget about using a crimp groove and run at pressures 10,000CUP higher than is deemed safe by any respected authority. Got it. 
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,047
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,047 |
Jim,
May I borrow "buffing the ballistic banana" sometime? It might be a little much for a book title, but would work pretty well in an article for RIFLE LOONY NEWS....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,362
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,362 |
Please be my guest. Although I would not be unhappy if you didn't mention who you got it from. 
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,047
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,047 |
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
Asked about N frame 29 vs. N frame 25. I know about the Rugers.
Edit: thanks for all the info regarding the difference between a .44 mag and .45 C. I really just wanted to discuss N frame smiths and pressure. SakoL, I've no dog in this fight, as I like the 44 and 45 equally, but I think people have forgotten that you asked about N-frames and pressure. This might have been posted earlier, and if so I apologize for the repeat. From Linebaugh link, below: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htmIn reality the Model 25-5 is about 80% as strong as the Model 29 in the cylinder area. The frames are the same and are designed for a 40,000 psi load level even though we know this is a bit more than they are happy with. It's too bad S&W built a 40,00 psi cylinder and installed it in a 30,000 psi frame, so to speak. (note: since this writing S&W has worked on the problem of the cylinder unlatching and rolling back under recoil after it gets a bit worn) The 25-5 in .45 Colt is safe to 80% of the 40,000 psi of the .44 Magnum Model 29. This allows a load of 32,000 psi in this frame. I have shot hundreds of the 32,000 psi class loads listed at the beginning of this article in several Model 25-5's. Recoil is heavy due to the S&W "hump" on the grip, but I do not see these loads as being dangerous in this fine gun. I do consider 32,000 to be ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM for this gun and prefer to hold my personal loads to 5% under those listed loads for approximately 25,000 psi. I carry a S&W 4" in .45 Colt daily and shoot a 260 gr. Keith at 900 fps for general duty. When I saddle up and go into the hills I pack the same gun with a 310 gr. NEI Keith over 23 gr. H-110. This gives me about 1080 fps and all the punch I need for anything on our mountain. As with any gun and load data, work up carefully. I assume responsibility only for the ammo I myself assemble.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
Note that in the quote that I posted above, from Linebaugh, he stated that he prefers to keep his 45 Colt loads under 25k psi in N-frames.
I have an article written by Brian Pearce about the 45 AR. This was in the August 2008 Handloader magazine. In that article, he stated that there are really no "weak" revolvers in 45 ACP, with each designed to handle the SAAMI spec of 21k psi. And +P being 23k psi, and safe in revolvers of proper working order. I suspect that the same is true of N-frames chambered in the Colt cartridge.
So, it would seem that 23-25k psi is reasonable for an N-frame based on Linebaugh and Pearce. If you want more details on that Pearce article, let me know.
Jason
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,466
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,466 |
Jason, I think I have that issue. Thanks.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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