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you wouldn't know Milton Friedman from Milton Berle. You weren't even alive when Reagan was first elected while I had the pleasure of voting him in and Jimmy Carter out.

It was neither Reagan nor was it Bush that continued the expansion of government programs, but Tip O'Neill (I'm sure you'll need to Google him) and the Dems.

To school you on your own chart, Reagan had to immediately rebuilt the US military that was eviscerated under Carter. His work with a GOP Senate got the economy stimulated and increased revenues. We would have seen a drop in the debt by 1990-91 if not for expediters of the Gulf War. Once the Gulf War and the mini recession of '91 shook out, the policies Reagan put in place yielded the reductions seen in the Clinton years. Even Newsweek Magazine - liberal rag powerhouse of the era- proclaimed that Clinton's economic policy was "don't mess with Reaganomics".

Now, go back to your basement and continue online gaming.


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Originally Posted by hatari
you wouldn't know Milton Friedman from Milton Berle. You weren't even alive when Reagan was first elected while I had the pleasure of voting him in and Jimmy Carter out.

It was neither Reagan nor was it Bush that continued the expansion of government programs, but Tip O'Neill (I'm sure you'll need to Google him) and the Dems.

To school you on your own chart, Reagan had to immediately rebuilt the US military that was eviscerated under Carter. His work with a GOP Senate got the economy stimulated and increased revenues. We would have seen a drop in the debt by 1990-91 if not for expediters of the Gulf War. Once the Gulf War and the mini recession of '91 shook out, the policies Reagan put in place yielded the reductions seen in the Clinton years. Even Newsweek Magazine - liberal rag powerhouse of the era- proclaimed that Clinton's economic policy was "don't mess with Reaganomics".

Now, go back to your basement and continue online gaming.


Don't waste your time with facts. The adolescent Aussie is only here to lie and troll.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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RJ is just a bitter man from our communist western state that is burning up. Next will be the rains to cause massive floods and erosion. Then watch out for the San Andreas kicking in big time.


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"Free trade" sounds nice but the devil is in the details.


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hatari you can ignore reality and I'm happy to change my opinion when the facts change, but you cant deny that both Reagan and Bush had expansionary monetary polices in place during their terms, expansion thru Debt binges just creates bubbles.

Happy to do some readin on Tip, hindsights a wonderful thing you should try it some time !!

And Trump would be an absolute disaster as Stagflation would overtake should he grab hold of the levers.

Unfortunately i suspect youve got ur head up ur ass when it comes to Global economic theory and the effects of Stagflation !

Last edited by Stevil; 07/26/16.


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I made this post for RJ, the drive by Clintonista, but it applies to you.

I'm getting my information from the people who were making the history that you are trying to understand. I can believe one of the World's best minds on Economics, one who has set successful US policy and is a Global Market expert going on 50 years, or be swayed by a Millennial without a job.

The choice is easy. I'm getting my "facts" from the people who made history. Your "facts" seem to come from the Democrat Underground.




Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by RobJordan
I realize Donald Trump and the rest of the neo-Marxists on this forum want to reject Adam Smith and classical economics in favor of Karl Marks, but Smith (and Friedman) are not going down without a fight...


The Case for Free Trade by Milton and Rose Friedman






Dear Clueless,

It is a good think there are other avenues of credible information than your constant anti Trump droning.

As a rebuttal to your assertion that Trump rejects what Milton and Rose Friedman espoused, I'll enlighten those who care with info from a credible source than yourself.

I had dinner Saturday evening with Dr. Thomas Conrad, economist and a member of Reagan's Cabinet. According to Tom, he has been meeting with both Mike Pense (and Gary Johnson for those who care) to discuss economic policy, and he assures me that the team Trump is putting together a "decidedly Austrian team of economic advisors".

There you go, from someone in the mix.


Dr. Thomas Conrad:

http://www.thedailybell.com/exclusi...obal-equity-trends-and-blown-up-markets/


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Originally Posted by Stevil
hatari you can ignore reality and I'm happy to change my opinion when the facts change, but you cant deny that both Reagan and Bush had expansionary monetary polices in place during their terms, expansion thru Debt binges just creates bubbles.

Happy to do some readin on Tip, hindsights a wonderful thing you should try it some time !!

And Trump would be an absolute disaster as Stagflation would overtake should he grab hold of the levers.

Unfortunately i suspect youve got ur head up ur ass when it comes to Global economic theory and the effects of Stagflation !


For the sake of engaging you civilly (only God knows why I bother), please Identify who held a overwhelming Majority in the House during the Reagan-Bush years, and then tell me what happened to the debt as the GOP took the House and Senate in '94 and held until 9/11? Try those facts.


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Nope I own my own place, gainfully employed and I get to look at the mistakes and ignorance of the Baby boomers.

Im no fan of Bill CLinton he was the Goose that allowed legislation that ultimately allowed the packaging and sale of CDO's that caused the GFC !!

Youre ignorance is rather cute Hatari but I get that alot from your generation that had it easy !!

Im the smart [bleep] er who's pulling the cushions out so you can feel your Hemarhoids, your perception and reality are 2 different things !!



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Clintons are Boomers, and hemorrhoids on society. That's about all you've scored on.


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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The Federal Reserve Act and the 16th Amendment made Keynesian economics possible, and have gravely compromised our kids lives, and their kids lives ad infinitum. The Federal Reserve Act and the 16th Amendment have made a lot of political insiders and their homies very, very rich at American taxpayers' expense.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property -until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
---Thomas Jefferson---

“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.” ---Woodrow Wilson after he signed the Federal Reserve Act---

The Federal Reserve Act must be repealed before we can restore a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.




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Originally Posted by JoeBob
Okay, I'll say it once again, free trade is a wonderful policy. It is a terrible ideological position and only morons or liars elevate it to that position.

Free trade is the best possible policy for peace and prosperity, no question. But as long as there are nation states, then trade isn't free. So while it might seem like we are engaging in free trade by taking in loads of Chinese goods, we aren't because China is not. So how do we get to free trade if other nations don't practice it. One solution is to use the carrot and the stick approach. And obviously, the stick is trade restrictions of our own to encourage them to be more fair

Someone who sees free trade as a policy to achieve peace and prosperity will recognize this approach. Someone ideologically wedded to free trade will be incapable of recognizing it and like idealouges everywhere, merely turn off his brain and shout "Free trade, free trade." Mark Levin come to mind.


Pat was a prophet along the way of our national suicide:

Riding the Free Trade Raft Over the Falls

by Patrick J. Buchanan
April 18, 2005

These are not the halcyon days of the Republicans' champion of open borders and free trade, Jack Kemp.

The "Minutemen," who appeared in Cochise County, Ariz., April 1 to highlight the invasion President Bush will not halt, are being hailed by conservative media and congressmen as patriots, as they are dismissed by the president as "irrational vigilantes."

Comes now the trade shocker for February. The deficit hit an all-time monthly record: $61 billion. The annual U.S. trade deficit is now running at $717 billion, $100 billion above the 2004 record.

Smelling political capital, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer are co-sponsoring a 27 percent tariff on goods from China. Beijing ran a $162 billion trade surplus with us in 2004 in what trade expert Charles McMillion calls "The World's Most Unequal Trading Relationship."

The waters are rising around the Kemp Republicans. For these gargantuan deficits are sinking the dollar, denuding us of industry and increasing our dependence on imports for the components of our weapons, the necessities of our national life and the $2 billion in borrowed money we need daily now – to continue consuming beyond our capacity to pay.

Brother Kemp is correct in his Washington Times column in saying Beijing has not been manipulating its currency. China fixed the value of the renminbi at eight to the dollar in 1994, just as we once tied the dollar to gold. Beijing rightly objects, "It is not our fault your dollar is sinking."

But here, the free-traders enter a cul de sac. They recoil at tariffs like Lucifer from holy water, but have no idea how to stop the hemorrhaging of jobs, technology, factories and dollars, except exhortation and prayer. For as 19th-century liberals, they believe free trade is "God's Diplomacy." Whoever rejects it sins in the heart. True believers all, they will ride this raft right over the falls and take us with them. This unyielding belief in the salvific power of free trade is, like socialism, one of modernity's secular religions.

As Kemp's column testifies, these folks are as light on history as they are long on ideology. Kemp claims "there is no demonstrable instance in economic history where nations were made worse off by free and open trade. There are only the doomsday scenarios spun out of the imagination of half-baked economists ..."

But between 1860 and 1914, Great Britain, which began the era with an economy twice the size of ours, ended it with an economy not half the size of ours. Britain worshipped at the altar of free trade, while America practiced protectionism from Lincoln to McKinley to Teddy Roosevelt to Taft. Tariffs averaged 40 percent and U.S. growth 4 percent a year for 50 years.

Bismarckian Germany did not exist in 1860. But by 1914, by imitating protectionist America, she had an economy larger than Great Britain's. Were it not for protectionist America shipping free-trade Britain the necessities of national survival from 1914 to 1917, Britain would have lost the war to Germany, so great was her dependence on imports. A real-life "doomsday scenario," thanks to a few dozen German U-boats.

Jack Kemp notwithstanding, protectionism has been behind the rise of every great power in modern history: Great Britain under the Acts of Navigation up to 1850, the America of 1860 to 1914, Germany from 1870 to 1914, Japan from 1950 to 1990 and China, which has grown at 9 percent a year for a decade. As China demonstrates, it is a mistake to assume free trade, or even democracy, is indispensable to growth.

Kemp trots out Smoot-Hawley, the 1930 tariff law, for a ritual scourging, suggesting it caused the Depression. But this, too, is hoary myth. In the 1940s and 1950s, schoolchildren and college students were indoctrinated in such nonsense by FDR-worshipping teachers whose life's vocation was to discredit the tariff hikes and tax cuts of Harding and Coolidge that led to the most spectacular growth in U.S. history – 7 percent a year in the Roaring Twenties. Under high-tariff Harding-Coolidge, the feds' tax take shrank to 3 percent of GNP.

As high tariffs and low or no income taxes made the GOP America's Party from 1860 to 1932, the Wilsonianism of Bush I and Bush II – open borders, free trade, wars for global democracy – has destroyed the Nixon-Reagan New Majority that used to give the GOP 49-state landslides. Bush carried 31 states in his re-election bid. He would have lost had Democrats capitalized on the free-trade folly that put in play, until the final hours, the indispensable Republican state of Ohio.

Kemp calls China our trade partner – surely a polite way to describe a regime that persecutes Catholics, brutalizes dissidents, targets 600 rockets on Taiwan, lets North Korea use its bases to ship missile and nuclear technology to anti-American regimes, and refuses to denounce racist riots designed to intimidate our Japanese allies.

As some on the Old Right have said since Bush I succeeded Reagan, open borders, free-trade globalism and wars for democracy are not conservatism, but its antithesis. And they will drown the GOP.

The Republicans jumping off the raft into the river and swimming desperately for shore testify to it more eloquently than words.


© 2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.


Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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