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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I know at least one local store kept cases of .22 rimfire ammo in the back room for regular customers who actually needed some, rather than put it out on the shelves where everybody who came in would buy a brick--and text all their buddies about where to find it. Same deal with one local Wal-Mart: They kept it hidden until somebody actually asked, rather than out in the open where word got out immediately and swarms of buyers showed up.

Also know of at least one American rimfire manufacturer who tried to keep up with demand during the first year or so of the "shortage" by manufacturing .22 Long Rifles 24/7. But they had to pay overtime to do it, and many workers eventually grew weary and quit. It also didn't seem to make any difference: As soon as they shipped out ammo, stores were clamoring for more. So they went back to their regular manufacturing schedule.

Meanwhile there was plenty of higher-priced .22 ammo available, and the supply of .223's and handgun ammo rebounded within a year or two. If the government was hoarding ammo, why were they hoarding cheap Long Rifles? Are people with squirrel rifles more of a threat to the government than people with AR-15's and semiauto handguns?


Are you then saying that after Trump was elected, masses of Americans immediately quit buying 22 ammo, primers, and powders--and thus the shelves could suddenly have vast supplies within two weeks that no one wants to buy?


I think we're all happy to have things 'normalize'. My LGS/powder shop was never a gouger, they were either in or out. The powders have been getting better for about the last year. For that I am thinking a lack of 'prepper/panic" buys because, well how may pounds of powder/ of 10K's of 22 ammo can a guy have to feel right.

I don't claim to hold any answers. I would like to just be able to buy a pound of H4350 when I need it and not have to forecast for shortages. Will say that thanks to previous admins I have quite a bit of powder on the shelves. Way more than I would if I could just buy enough to load for the next match.


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Originally Posted by gaperry59
.257 Roberts brass is still unobtainium.


Pricey, but available.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/681?

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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer


Are you then saying that after Trump was elected, masses of Americans immediately quit buying 22 ammo, primers, and powders--and thus the shelves could suddenly have vast supplies within two weeks that no one wants to buy?


That is exactly what I was saying in my earlier post. I do not believe there has been a significant change on the supply side since the election. The big change is on the demand side.


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DakotaDeer,

Why not? The stores were basically emptied of .22 rimfire ammo two weeks after Obama was reelected, and it wasn't because factories suddenly quit making it. Shooters bought it all--and kept buying it, every chance they got. Some were afraid of not finding any when they wanted it, and some bought it to resell to those who were afraid.

Now many shooters who really wanted a stock .22 rimfires have a supply, and Trump's election calmed the fears others had of another buying panic after a Clinton victory. So yeah, I believe many people suddenly quit buying .22 rimfire after election night, in the same way they started buying it immediately after Obama's reelection. And stores that had a supply in the back room started putting more out on shelves, because the shelves wouldn't be stripped bare in a day or two.

I also believe a big part of the "shortages" was cell phones and the Internet. Any time anything showed up anywhere, whether on store shelves or Internet sites, shooters texted, called or posted other shooters about the supply. And it would be gone within a day, or even within a few hours. More than once I saw people, with the store's limit of .22 rimfire already in their hands, taking cell-phone photos of shelves and sending them to friends. One guy even posted here that he'd go buy his limit of .22's, then take them out to his pickup and put on a "disguise" and go back in to buy some more. How the hell were supplies supposed to last in stores?

As for primers and powders, they've been pretty easy to get for at least a couple of years now, if not in stores then off Internet sites. Many shooters still somehow refuse to accept the Internet as a major part of American retailing, despite the fact that the percentage of Internet sales for the majority of goods keeps rising every year. Instead they still judge supplies on store shelves.

There have been exceptions, such as Federal primers and certain kinds of brass, apparently because shooters have been buying bunches of ammo, so more primers and cases are going into factory ammunition. But Federal has also been making lots of stuff for the military, which has priority over the civilian market.

There have been actual shortages of certain kinds of powders. Some of the problem with certain Hodgdon powders was caused by a bottleneck in New Zealand while shipping powders to the U.S. The plant that makes Ramshot rifle powders in Belgium had a fire about 2-1/2 years ago, which put them way behind--and when they got back on-line military contracts in Europe were the first priority. But TAC started to show regularly up almost two years ago, and within a year the others started to follow, with Big Game, Hunter and Magnum easily available on several websites.

I don't know for sure what's going on with H4350, but have my suspicions (based on some inside knowledge) that it's due to business dealings that have nothing to do with "shortages." If so, it's connected to the introduction of the IMR Enduron powders. Other Hodgdon Extremes have been relatively easy to buy for a year or more.


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Originally Posted by hanco
Now that I have 10,000 primers and 50 lbs if powder. Better get a few more!!


Thats a start in our books. But of course it depends on how much you shoot and how old ya are. LOL.

Couple hundred pounds of powder and at least 5000 primers of each kind spare ain't a bad idea. Not like its going to go bad really.


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And on another note, an email from a friend, that says his LGS got a call after the election, well seems we can now "afford" to sell you a full pallet of rimfire, not just some.

So seems the wholesalers were into trying their best to rip off the retail buying public for the most they could, in the end. At least to some point.

But of course in the end part of that is death of demand.

Honestly I"ve put off a few things that we wanted and thought would be banned like normal cap glock mags.... we can wait a bit until supply comes up and price goes to normal.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
DakotaDeer,

Why not? The stores were basically emptied of .22 rimfire ammo two weeks after Obama was reelected, and it wasn't because factories suddenly quit making it. Shooters bought it all--and kept buying it, every chance they got. Some were afraid of not finding any when they wanted it, and some bought it to resell to those who were afraid.

Now many shooters who really wanted a stock .22 rimfires have a supply, and Trump's election calmed the fears others had of another buying panic after a Clinton victory. So yeah, I believe many people suddenly quit buying .22 rimfire after election night, in the same way they started buying it immediately after Obama's reelection. And stores that had a supply in the back room started putting more out on shelves, because the shelves wouldn't be stripped bare in a day or two.

I also believe a big part of the "shortages" was cell phones and the Internet. Any time anything showed up anywhere, whether on store shelves or Internet sites, shooters texted, called or posted other shooters about the supply. And it would be gone within a day, or even within a few hours. More than once I saw people, with the store's limit of .22 rimfire already in their hands, taking cell-phone photos of shelves and sending them to friends. One guy even posted here that he'd go buy his limit of .22's, then take them out to his pickup and put on a "disguise" and go back in to buy some more. How the hell were supplies supposed to last in stores?

As for primers and powders, they've been pretty easy to get for at least a couple of years now, if not in stores then off Internet sites. Many shooters still somehow refuse to accept the Internet as a major part of American retailing, despite the fact that the percentage of Internet sales for the majority of goods keeps rising every year. Instead they still judge supplies on store shelves.

There have been exceptions, such as Federal primers and certain kinds of brass, apparently because shooters have been buying bunches of ammo, so more primers and cases are going into factory ammunition. But Federal has also been making lots of stuff for the military, which has priority over the civilian market.

There have been actual shortages of certain kinds of powders. Some of the problem with certain Hodgdon powders was caused by a bottleneck in New Zealand while shipping powders to the U.S. The plant that makes Ramshot rifle powders in Belgium had a fire about 2-1/2 years ago, which put them way behind--and when they got back on-line military contracts in Europe were the first priority. But TAC started to show regularly up almost two years ago, and within a year the others started to follow, with Big Game, Hunter and Magnum easily available on several websites.

I don't know for sure what's going on with H4350, but have my suspicions (based on some inside knowledge) that it's due to business dealings that have nothing to do with "shortages." If so, it's connected to the introduction of the IMR Enduron powders. Other Hodgdon Extremes have been relatively easy to buy for a year or more.


Thank you for that explanation.

BTW, I don't have a cell phone, so I may not be up on the latest and greatest "flash sales."

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The manufacturers are the biggest hoarders to drive demand as well as prices through the ceiling..

Takes no genius to figure that out.

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Availability has slowly been improving around here for a year or so. However there is no Remington or Winchester brass, no Federal Match primers or many of the old standby Alliant powders, like 2400 or Unique. Some calibers like the WSM's and 257 Roberts are still scarce. Maybe this will improve in time.


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Great to see shelves full again!!!

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