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JJHACK Offline OP
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What do you guys know about finishing a walnut stock. Lets start from a blank being set in front of you and being sanded perfect with 100 grit paper, what next? We also need to install a recoil pad. What's next? This should be done with a hand rubbed oil finish not a gloss finish.jj


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Jim,<P>There was a good thread on stock finishing on the gunsmith board awhile back. I copied the posts, and will forward them to you. <P>If you want to do some of your own gunsmithing work, I highly recomend Brownells gunsmith kinks books, there is so much good info in there, even if you don't do all your own work, you'll have a better appreciation of what the gunsmith does, or should do.

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JJ, I would advise using 200 grit paper next and then 400 grit paper and then perhaps even some 4-0(0000)four ought, steel wool. Be sure to use a sanding black with the 100 grit and rougher so to avoid waves in the wood. You want the wood nice and flat on the flat spots and nice and smooth curves on the curves. A doll rod with sand paper will work well for the curved spots. The last stock I did, which was several years ago, I used sprayed on Flecto Verathane in a satin finish. This finishes extremely tough and you don't have to wait forever as with the tru-oil products. In order to avoid finger prints use a bent clothes hanger to hold the stock thru one of the cuts in the stock. Then, when finished with a coat, just hang the stock up by the clothes hanger hook. Put on several thin coats rather than one heavy coat that can run. The big key is to use good sanding technique before applying a finish.


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On page 321 of The Rifle Book (1964 edition), Jack O'Connor gives a very good description of how to apply an oil finish to a wooden gun stock. It definitely isn't an overnight operation. <P>It's too long to type in here, but if you like drop me an email and I'll be happy to copy it and send it via snail mail. Justin

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JJ,<P>Talk to Sheister, he's done it all and I've seen his work and it's outstanding. He's in the process now of working on a stock so it's fresh in his mind and can give you 'do's and don'ts'. He's too humble to admit it but he's got a talent.

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I've had a couple done, but not by myself..<BR>So I understand that the sanding and prep is 90% of the job, and where the "make it or break it" quality aspect kicks in...<P>I think my gunsmith said something about keeping it wet for 40 days??


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JJ, -- food for thought, you have mentioned several times about your guns being tools of the trade. Save yourself a lot of work, since you have it sanded to wood, hang it, spray it with the grey no slip junk we use on boat trailer fenders. Nice no slip, textured, tough, working finish, you can walk on it without damage. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] -- no


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Good thought Sonnie but this is not a work rifle. This is for a small caliber(.22) special rifle I am refinishing. If it were a work rifle I would not even bother with wood. <P>Although My 458 Lott will have a wood stock, and it most certainly is a "work" rifle.jj


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Okay Spike, I'm getting suspicious. What is that compliment going to cost me? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>JJ, try this site- http:www.gunstocks.50megs.com/<P>Whatever you do, don't use steel wool on your stock. I've seen stocks where the little metal slivers rusted under the finish and it looks pretty bad. Use Scotch pads for the finish sanding after going with 100, 200, 320, 400, and 600 if you are ambitious enough. Then use super fine wet/dry paper of 600 grit or so and rub in a good oil finish mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits until it won't take any more finish. If it looks dry after about an hour, it needs more. Once you get to this point, the stock is completely sealed from moisture- let it dry for at least 30 days to completely cure.<P>After the curing, add very thin coats of oil with a very soft rag or your finger tips. A thimble full should be enough for the whole stock. Then let it dry for a few days. This may take a while as you are trying to build up the finish and let it cure completely between coats. Once you have enough finish on, (10-20 coats), look to see if all the "orange peel" is completely gone. If it is all flat and even with no dull spots when inspecting it in the sunlight, then get some rottenstone at a paint supply store, mix with whatever oil you are using, and rub it carefully over the entire stock until the desired finish is reached, removing the rottenstone and oil residue between rubbings and polishing slightly with a cloth. You'll know when it is right.<P>I probably don't need to tell you this, but the wood preparation is the most important thing in the whole project. If you leave a scratch in the wood anywhere, from damage, dings, or the early grades of sanding paper, it will show in the finished product. Take your time at this stage and you won't be refinishing at the final stages. Don't ask me how I know this. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Recoil pads are actually fairly easy to install. First, you need to determine your Length of Pull. For most guys, this is about 13 5/8" or so. Put the action in the stock, measure back from your trigger face to a point where your LOP will be. You will need to deduct the thickness of the pad from this measurement before preceeding. Do this before you start work on shaping the stock in case you chip the stock slightly when making this cut. You can then hopefully have enough material left to repair any small chips the saw may take out while shaping and sanding. <P> When you have the stock to the final dimension you wish to work to, buy a Recoil pad of your liking,(I like the Old English and the Pachmeyer's the best) of the size closest oversize to your stock size. Use a very sharp razor to open the rubber over the screw holes but cutting a small X in the rear of the recoil pad. Hold the recoil pad over the buttstock in the final position, reach through the screw holes with a thin nail or awl and mark the rear of the stock where the screws will be installed. Remove the pad and drill a couple of holes the appropriate size for the pad screws supplied with the pad. Put some masking tape on the front surface of the pad (the side against the stock). Install the pad with the screws, very carefully so as not to enlarge the holes in the rear of the pad. Using a good pen or pencil, mark around the stock on the tape on the pad where it meets the stock and remove the pad. Take the pad to a belt sander and remove the material on the sides only being sure to keep the sides square, not the bottom (pointed part) of the pad, until you have about a 1/16" of pad around the line. Reinstall the pad, and using the belt sander, sand all the way to the wood along all sides of the pad. You will see now is the time to shape the bottom point of the pad, so you can continue the bottom line of the stock down to a taper instead of straight back which would not look professional. Once you are happy with the finished shape, carefully remove it and set it aside. Repair and sand the spots where the sander touched the stock, and finish as above. The pad then is installed last, after all the other finishing is done. Don't forget to seal the wood under the pad and in the inletted areas. <P>Installing the tip material and cap material is a little more involved, so if you are contemplating doing this yourself, let me know and I can walk you through it. <P>Any other questions, let me know. You have my number. Another great resource for these tips is Ray Atkinson. In fact, I stole a lot of this information from his tips on other boards, especially where it was the same or better than my own techniques. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] -Sheister


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JJ,<P>I think Sheister covered all the bases pretty well. There are perhaps a few more tidbits to throw in.<P>The following is a recommendation from Boyds' Gunstocks on finishing wood stocks:<P>To get a professional finish on your stock, finish sand to 180 grit. Spray or pour on a liberal coat of Tru-Oil and wipe away any runs. Once dry, repeat the process with Tru-Oil again, this time, however, lightly sand with 180 grit sandpaper the stock while the finish is still wet. This will mix small sawdust particles with the finish and assist in filling in the pours of the material. Allow to completely dry and repeat the process as many times necessary until the pours are completely filled. Let set for 24 hours, then scuff the stock with a very fine grit sandpaper or use steel wool, be careful not to sand to raw wood. When this is completed use compressed air to remove small particles and a tack cloth to remove any excess debris. The stock is now ready for waxing for a low sheen finish.<P>Boyds recommends Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil and Wax. I'm sure there are many others that would do as well.<P>For recoil pads, the advice is similar to Sheister's, although his advice is much more in depth. For installing a pad, push a sharp scribe coated in vaseline through the screw holes form the inside out the back of the pad, then remove the scribe. Use a razor blade to cut an X in the top of the pad at the location where the scribe holes came through the pad. Next, coat the screw and screwdriver shaft with vaseline and install the screws where your Xs were placed. This leaves a presentation of the screw holes in the pad being invisible.<P>Good Luck, <BR>~rossi~

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Doesn't anyone whisker a stock prior to applying the finish any more><BR>BCR


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Boggy, whiskering (or raising the grain) can be done before putting on finish or when sanding the first couple of coats of finish. Either way it seems to work about the same and doing it with the first coat of finish eliminates a step. <BR>Personally, I prefer to whisker the stock first before finishing.- Sheister


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That is about the same way I do it too Sheister. I wet it, dry it quick and cut off the whiskers with some new 600. Then rub off the first coat of finish if I am not using a filler. I just hadn't seen it mentioned so wondered if there was a new method I hadn't heard about.<BR>BCR


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JJ<BR>Hate to say it, but I disagree with the whole works here. I gave a couple very long-winded versions of my approach on a thread under gunsmithing some time back. I believe 458 Lott was sending you that thread via an alternate route.<P>Oil, even cured oil, absorbs atmospheric water alarminly fast and then sheds it slowly. No oil seals water from any stock... ever.<P>I use a coat or two of epoxy under an oil finish. It looks like an oil finish, wears like an epoxy finish, seals like plastic, and repairs just like the oil finish it mostly is.<P>Part of the playing I have done with this involves finishing many hundreds of cubes of walnut with various finishes and weighing them very carefully under many different atmospheric conditoins, most of which are brought about in a steam box.<P>Oil finished wood absorbs water faster than bare wood... period.<P>Don't really want to start the kind of running engagement Mr Atkinson and I had in the last thread, but it is still available there.<BR>art


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JJ, I had a bit of a hand in the Sitka Deer Vs. Atkinson debate. For what it is worth all the above mentioned finishes work as do their applications. Some are just better suited to wet climes than others.<BR>I use a bone from the leg of a beef to finish prep my wood. This is done with a large diameter bone about 4 inches or so long. The bone is rubbed on the wood to close up the pores and polish the wood. This takes some practice to get rite. Go easy it is not difficult to leave lines in the wood from too much pressure, the results are outstanding when done. Linspeed makes a very good stock finish, expect to spend several weeks finishing or even months when using oil. Oil finishes are durable and water resistant when bone properly, look at firearms from the past century. It just can't be rushed. I am currently into my third month of finishing two rifles. Custom gun makers just can't afford to use oil due to the time it takes to do it rite. Thus the many finishes to make a finished stock in the shortest time possible.


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Art, can I put epoxy varnish over my oil finish?pak


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PAK<BR>Don't think I would try that. The epoxy would likely seperate over time and would be a surface finish which would be a bit thick for my esthetics, also.<P>Getting the epoxy soaked into the wood and just barely covering the surface is the way. Then the oil finish on top looks just like a plain oil finish.<BR>art


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Well I guess I got more then I bargained for on this! No wonder I chose synthetic stocks for all my rifles til this one!<P>Just for an example what does a company like Winchester or Remington do to there mass produced rifle stocks? How is it they look decent and are mostly functional without the months of hand rubbed finsh. They certainly cannot be doing it the same way that is has been described here!<P>Sitka, I am glad you spoke up and I understand what it is exactly that your explaining. For the purpose of this piece of wood, it will never see a drop of water, maybe some humidity but it is not a big game rifle which will ever get wet. <P>I have completely sanded with the 100 grit, it looks nice. I am going to use the 200 grit and the 400 grit this week. I will finish the stocks recoil pad as well this week. So I am about a week away from any type of finish.<P>I would like the wood a bit darker so I must think about either a thin stain or maybe the finish I use will darken it enough? If I were to use a little thin stain to get a darker finish what would you suggest? jj


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JJ: When you get the 400 done and then do a 600 or even 800 grit on top of that (JMHO, if you spend enough time with the 400 the 600 and 800 will not take long) wet the stock with water. You need to wetsand to get it smooth. When you wet it, you will feel the grain "raise" again as the water soaks in, and not be truely smooth. You need to just knock off the raised pores or when you finish it, it will be as rough as it feels when you hit it with water. You will know what I mean when you do this. Your fingers will tell ya when it is right.<BR> <BR>The color when wet is about what you will get when finished. I love doing this type of work and it has been interesting seeing the comments ...... and I want no part of the arguements. Sitka is right BUT if its a showy gun that will never see wet humid environments then the oil is easy to apply and hard to f*ck up. I have used poly's and very very hard two part epoxy's used to do countertops. That sh*t is hard as a rock and does not have to be glossy (I know you hate that) but is a royal pain in the ass to apply and get to looking good.<P>You have tons of advice here. Pick the one that sounds good and give it a go. Based on what you have said the gun will be subjected to a simple oil finish and a GOOD bedding job will work for you I am sure. Whatever finish you apply rememeber to have a good bedding job done. I am sure you know this..........<P>Good Luck <P>Tex


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JJ<BR>Based on the fact you do not really think it needs to be sealed, are you sure it won't be moved around, even indoors, between 2 distinctly different climates? Will you always live where the humidity matches your current address? What about when you pass it on?<P>If you decide to use plain oil finish, varathane 66 is my favorite, followed closely by Tru-oil. Do not think you would have a problem with either. As texas-hunter said they are pretty much worm-proof.<P>Make sure that most of your sanding is done with a block or you will be creating ripples in the surface as you cut away softer areas of the figure faster than the harder areas.<P>Remember to use high quality sandpaper, it cuts a lot of time and effort out of the job. <P>Color can be accompllished many different ways. Careful scorching, not to black, but just to a bit darker than it is, is a good way. It will also be permanent color, where a stain might change color over time and cause problems. Color-fast dyes and stains are not always what they claim. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>art


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