24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
Higbean,

My post about Travis was a joke--well, to a certain extent. It was certainly no comment on what you posted. Looks like a happy and well-armed kid!


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,179
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,179
John, I knew it was a joke and did not take it any other way. Probably should have put a smiley in there. I meant I knew nothing about beer.

Now back to this beer stuff. I went to a party once and people had some of it. They were even drinking it!

Last edited by Higbean; 07/26/15.

Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
I've been to parties where people thought they were drinking beer, but they weren't.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,179
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,179
Now this is no surprise.


Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
obie,

How many big game animals have you killed (or even seen killed) with .224 centerfires?

As for your ".233" typographic error, it's interesting because when I first started hunting big game in Montana the state (like many others) had a .23-caliber minimum for big game. This was primarily due to the .220 Swift, because the people who made the rules for many game departments had a visceral reaction to any "twenty-two" caliber rifle being used on deer. Most had never seen a .220 Swift used on deer (or often even varmints) but they KNEW it wouldn't work. (This resulted in a bunch of .23-caliber wildcats, at least before the .243 Winchester appeared.)

Thankfully, Montana got rid of that rule many years ago. By the 1980's my wife and I were using the .220 Swift on big game, and I even used it as my "recoil cure" rifle when guiding pronghorn and deer hunters who flinched violently because they thought a 7mm or even .338 magnum had way more power so killed "better."

This isn't true. A "twenty-two" bullet through the lungs kills deer and antelope just about as quickly as a larger bullet, if you use the right bullet and put it in the right place. Usually they either die on the spot, or go 25-40 yards before keeling over, just like they do with a .243, 7mm-08 or even bigger rounds. Hell, I've seen one mule deer doe go 80 yards after a perfect hit through the lungs with a 200-grain bullet from a .300 Winchester Magnum--and no, the bullet didn't leave blood trail until about 5 yards before the deer fell.

If you have contrary experience I'd sure like to hear it.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
IC B2

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Obie...Im with John, especially with todays bullets, killing deer with a .223 is a slam dunk...


Back in the day I trained a couple step kids to shoot and hunt. They each got a .223 and the best bullets I could find for the day. They were made to practice from position and by their first season they were almost-not-quite- sick of their rifles.

End result- each killed their first 3 deer with one shot apiece.


Its even easier now...


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,895
S
SLM Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,895
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
obie,

How many big game animals have you killed (or even seen killed) with .224 centerfires?

As for your ".233" typographic error, it's interesting because when I first started hunting big game in Montana the state (like many others) had a .23-caliber minimum for big game. This was primarily due to the .220 Swift, because the people who made the rules for many game departments had a visceral reaction to any "twenty-two" caliber rifle being used on deer. Most had never seen a .220 Swift used on deer (or often even varmints) but they KNEW it wouldn't work. (This resulted in a bunch of .23-caliber wildcats, at least before the .243 Winchester appeared.)

Thankfully, Montana got rid of that rule many years ago. By the 1980's my wife and I were using the .220 Swift on big game, and I even used it as my "recoil cure" rifle when guiding pronghorn and deer hunters who flinched violently because they thought a 7mm or even .338 magnum had way more power so killed "better."

This isn't true. A "twenty-two" bullet through the lungs kills deer and antelope just about as quickly as a larger bullet, if you use the right bullet and put it in the right place. Usually they either die on the spot, or go 25-40 yards before keeling over, just like they do with a .243, 7mm-08 or even bigger rounds. Hell, I've seen one mule deer doe go 80 yards after a perfect hit through the lungs with a 200-grain bullet from a .300 Winchester Magnum--and no, the bullet didn't leave blood trail until about 5 yards before the deer fell.

If you have contrary experience I'd sure like to hear it.


That is going to cause a few heart attacks.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
I'm not even sure about how much help a bullet designed for bigger game helps. The bullet we used in the Swift for everything from prairie dogs to big game was the 60-grain Nosler Solid Base, which both "sploded" PD's (as my West Virginia friends put it) and went right through bigger stuff, leaving a quarter-sized exit hole. This was supposedly a "varmint" bullet at 3650 fps.

Dober and I talked about this one day when he stopped by a year or so ago. His experience with the Swift and .22-250 is that any bullet that makes it out the muzzle intact will work on big game. In the days before "official" .22-caliber big game bullets, he was partial not just to the 60-grain Solid Base but the 63-grain Sierra ProHunter, which he once used to kill a big black bear (with one shot) using one of Elmer Keith's "raking" shots.

I do know that a small bullet in the right place beats a bigger bullet around the edges (which is kind of like saying fire is hot), and a .223 is a LOT cheaper to shoot than anything bigger, especially for anybody who doesn't handload, which was plainly stated by the OP.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Odd you mentioned that one. The 60 gr. Nosler solid base was our go to bullet back in the day. 60 Gr Hornady SP a close second.


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,722
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,722
If I had a kid I would buy them a Kimber MT and have it turned into a 22-250.



IC B3

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,179
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,179
I loaded some 60 gr Vmax in a .223 for a friends boy to deer hunt with several years back. The guy couldn't have been happier with the performance. I made mention of it here and got lit up for using a varmint bullet on deer. Have heard of guys using the 50 gr Vmax with great results. Guess things aren't always what we thought.


Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
Higbean,

Gotcha! I should probably have used a smiley too....


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,042
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,042
Originally Posted by obie458
Well reduced 7mm-08 ammo still has way more power than even the most powerful 233 loads. I do think the 22lr is what you should start kids off with and the next step is the 223 but for deer hunting? I know with proper shot placement you can kill any animal with just about any caliber ever made but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to try it.


Wan Kenobi should know better...

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
mathman,

Travis prefers Tumbleweed IPA, which is real beer.

When my stepson was just drinking age in Montana, he was at a party with his peers and repeated something his mother said about a long-time favorite regional beer, comparing it it to equine urine. He really didn't know the difference, and neither did his friends, but the comment became somewhat notorious.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,707
My brother was an active member of a brewing club a few years back, and I'd get invited to their "show your latest keg" parties. There was a poster on the wall, a list of things you don't want to hear when your beer is being judged. "Your horse needs to see the vet" was one.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,853
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,853
Recently found this bullet base in a whitetail doe tender loin (inner loin). Head on running shot. Momentum carried her body a few feet, essentially dumping her on the run.

[Linked Image]

40 grain Ballistic Tip, muzzle velocity 3550. Impact not much less.

Unfortunately, 22 caliber rifles are not any good for deer.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,804
T
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
T
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,804
I knew a farmer who went to Russia on a cultural exchange. He advised the locals that their cow had diabetes. Almost caused an international incident.


"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
M
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,903
Billy,

Found something similar (maybe a little bigger) when Eileen shot a doe pronghorn a couple years ago with a 40-grain Cutting Edge Raptor at 4300+ fps from a .22-250. the bullet landed just inside the left shoulder and the shank was found in the broken right shoulder blade. The doe went two feet, straight down.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,261
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19,261
Originally Posted by SamOlson
If I had a kid I would buy them a Kimber MT and have it turned into a 22-250.




That would be uber.


MAGA
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,871
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,871
I came to revisit this thread because I too, am looking for a rifle for my kids.

Seems like our laws have changed and I am going to be able to take the rugrats hunting this year.

I am definitely looking at a 223. Considering a tikka or an AR. Kids shoot Ar 15-22s a fair amount so they are familiar with the platform. It's light and easy for them to shoot. And, it is versatile. Anyone and everyone in the family can pick it up and use it.

On that note, what Ar and more importantly, what barrel would you guys recommend if I went the AR route? I have a 10 and soon-to-be 12 year old.


Montana MOFO
Page 5 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
719 members (11point, 12344mag, 10gaugemag, 10Glocks, 160user, 117LBS, 92 invisible), 2,749 guests, and 1,307 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,695
Posts18,399,872
Members73,820
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.188s Queries: 15 (0.007s) Memory: 0.9041 MB (Peak: 1.0623 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 23:14:46 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS