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If I was the state I would just tell the FEDS we ain't issuing marriage licenses to gays, period.

Liberal states are always passing sheit that will never stand up to the courts (lots of gun things come to mind), but they do it. Knowing that it will take years of legal battles and money to overturn it.

Hell, the FEDS say NO to pot, but some states do it anyways, why not turn the [bleep] tables.


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Define intervene.

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intervene
ɪntəˈviːn/
verb
verb: intervene; 3rd person present: intervenes; past tense: intervened; past participle: intervened; gerund or present participle: intervening

1.
take part in something so as to prevent or alter a result or course of events.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
intervene
ɪntəˈviːn/
verb
verb: intervene; 3rd person present: intervenes; past tense: intervened; past participle: intervened; gerund or present participle: intervening

1.
take part in something so as to prevent or alter a result or course of events.


By a strict adherence to your definition, I would have to say I don't know.

If I loosely take that definition, I would say that God has and does intervene. First in giving his Word. Secondly by appealing to our concious. In both cases there is an appeal made - intervention - not a prevention nor a predetermination.

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I think many Christians would say he does indeed intervene hence the phrase "the power of prayer"

but you know as well as I that direct intervention is a conflict of free will



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Originally Posted by KFWA

I think many Christians would say he does indeed intervene hence the phrase "the power of prayer"

but you know as well as I that direct intervention is a conflict of free will



I do not concede the point that direct intervention is in conflict of free will. To quote one passage of scripture, "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me."

Since you mentioned "Christians", the Bible is replete with examples of how God's people chose to disobey God, and God did not directly intervene in sparing them from the consequences that followed.

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Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by KFWA

I think many Christians would say he does indeed intervene hence the phrase "the power of prayer"

but you know as well as I that direct intervention is a conflict of free will



I do not concede the point that direct intervention is in conflict of free will. To quote one passage of scripture, "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me."

Since you mentioned "Christians", the Bible is replete with examples of how God's people chose to disobey God, and God did not directly intervene in sparing them from the consequences that followed.


According to the Bible, God does intervene. In Exodus, Pharaoh is willing to let the Jewish people go, but God intervenes, and hardens Pharaoh's multiple times so he can continue raining plagues upon the Egyptian people.

We also have this little intervention called The Flood, where God murders all but 8 people on earth.

And many Christians are just waiting for the last intervention when Jesus returns to end the earth as we know it.

As for God's intervention on a daily basis, does not everything go exactly according to God's plan?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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All I know is that I should be dead, a couple of times.

If its luck, than I also should have won the lottery by now.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by KFWA

I think many Christians would say he does indeed intervene hence the phrase "the power of prayer"

but you know as well as I that direct intervention is a conflict of free will



I do not concede the point that direct intervention is in conflict of free will. To quote one passage of scripture, "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me."

Since you mentioned "Christians", the Bible is replete with examples of how God's people chose to disobey God, and God did not directly intervene in sparing them from the consequences that followed.


According to the Bible, God does intervene. In Exodus, Pharaoh is willing to let the Jewish people go, but God intervenes, and hardens Pharaoh's multiple times so he can continue raining plagues upon the Egyptian people.

Five times the Bible says Pharaoh hardened his [own] heart. After that, Pharaoh only offers to let the Jewish people go...under conditions. After that, it says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. After the plagues, Pharaoh was willing to let the Jewish people go...unconditionally. The complete story reflects free will first, then intervention in regard to Pharaoh. And this is consistent with the Biblical pattern.

We also have this little intervention called The Flood, where God murders all but 8 people on earth.

Only after God had given the inhabitants time to repent (or turn) from their wicked imaginations. Again, the complete story reflects free will first...then intervention.

And many Christians are just waiting for the last intervention when Jesus returns to end the earth as we know it.

Again, God is not slack concerning his promises. "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance." Again, free will first...then intervention.

As for God's intervention on a daily basis, does not everything go exactly according to God's plan?

I'll let you quote the verses for that. As for me, I understand that the free will of man does not thwart the purposes of God.

From your above examples, I can see that you are a cherry picker also. Misrepresentation or lack of full disclosure is also a form of dishonesty.



I'll respond in the quote in bold.

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Since antelope sniper doesn't acknowledge that we were created by God, and therefore his possessions to do with as He wishes, he doesn't understand that our deaths are not murder.

AS thinks everyone in history that died was murdered by God.


Islam is a terrorist organization.

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Originally Posted by BarryC
Since antelope sniper doesn't acknowledge that we were created by God, and therefore his possessions to do with as He wishes, he doesn't understand that our deaths are not murder.

AS thinks everyone in history that died was murdered by God.


You can be a slave, owned by something for which you can provide no evidence for it's existence, I choose not to.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by GB
I'll let you quote the verses for that. As for me, I understand that the free will of man does not thwart the purposes of God.


GB, You say free will does not thwart God's purpose, but does it thwart God's plan?

When God said "Let there be light.", Did he already plan to murder all except 8 people in the Great Flood?

So did God create humans such that he knew he would have to murder them all, or did he have to modify his plan due to free will?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by 12344mag
[Linked Image]


Not true, bruinruin and I are still alive and doing well.......... grin [/quote]

LMAO!



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Originally Posted by Snyper

Doesn't the bible say God made everything?




It also says there is one who corrupts everything that God made.

You read one line, and rely on it, as though you know the whole book.
A more lame argument could never be concocted.


Last edited by Archerhunter; 09/21/15.

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Originally Posted by Archerhunter
Originally Posted by Snyper

Doesn't the bible say God made everything?




It also says there is one who corrupts everything that God made.

You read one line, and rely on it, as though you know the whole book.
A more lame argument could never be concocted.



God Made Satan, and everything goes according to God's plan, so all the corruption you speak of is part of God's plan.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by GB
I'll let you quote the verses for that. As for me, I understand that the free will of man does not thwart the purposes of God.


GB, You say free will does not thwart God's purpose, but does it thwart God's plan?

No. God's plan was to create a people with whom he could fellowship. God's plan was not thwarted by man's choice to sin. The Bible says that "Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world." That tells me that God foreknew man you sin...not that it was God's plan that man would sin. With Christ providing the atonement for sin, God's plan is not thwarted...except in the case of those who reject Christ.

When God said "Let there be light.", Did he already plan to murder all except 8 people in the Great Flood?

No, God's plan was to create light. You seem to be consistent in assuming that foreknowledge means predestination (plan). The two are different. "The Bible say that Noah was a preacher of righteous." The ark was a means of safety. It was available to all who chose to enter therein.

So did God create humans such that he knew he would have to murder them all, or did he have to modify his plan due to free will?

No. Again, you err because you equate foreknowledge with predestination (plan). From the first two people who sinned, God provided a way to be forgiven and justified. That same forgiveness was offered to their offspring. One chose to accept, one chose to reject. One through free will received forgiveness, one through free will rejected forgiveness.

The plan was fellowship with God. He who repents enjoys fellowship and life. He who rejects receives death.







I'll answer within the quote in bold.

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Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by GB
I'll let you quote the verses for that. As for me, I understand that the free will of man does not thwart the purposes of God.


GB, You say free will does not thwart God's purpose, but does it thwart God's plan?

No. God's plan was to create a people with whom he could fellowship. God's plan was not thwarted by man's choice to sin. The Bible says that "Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world." That tells me that God foreknew man you sin...not that it was God's plan that man would sin. With Christ providing the atonement for sin, God's plan is not thwarted...except in the case of those who reject Christ.

When God said "Let there be light.", Did he already plan to murder all except 8 people in the Great Flood?

No, God's plan was to create light. You seem to be consistent in assuming that foreknowledge means predestination (plan). The two are different. "The Bible say that Noah was a preacher of righteous." The ark was a means of safety. It was available to all who chose to enter therein.

So did God create humans such that he knew he would have to murder them all, or did he have to modify his plan due to free will?

No. Again, you err because you equate foreknowledge with predestination (plan). From the first two people who sinned, God provided a way to be forgiven and justified. That same forgiveness was offered to their offspring. One chose to accept, one chose to reject. One through free will received forgiveness, one through free will rejected forgiveness.

The plan was fellowship with God. He who repents enjoys fellowship and life. He who rejects receives death.

I'll answer within the quote in bold.


If God has foreknowledge of all that is going to happen, for the human players, yes, their destination is already determined.

As for the Ark being open to all, unless you are using a figurative, and not a literal interpretation of this story, that is just plain BS.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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You can argue free will and prayer all you want. All I want to know is why God allows all those kids at St. Jude's Children hospital.

I don't see how stopping cancer in children gets in the way of free will.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Archerhunter
Originally Posted by Snyper

Doesn't the bible say God made everything?




It also says there is one who corrupts everything that God made.

You read one line, and rely on it, as though you know the whole book.
A more lame argument could never be concocted.



God Made Satan, and everything goes according to God's plan, so all the corruption you speak of is part of God's plan.


Again, the concept of free will that alludes you distorts all that you conclude.

God created Satan (not how he was referred before his fall) with free will.

Of mankind, God said, "They have corrupted themselves."

You will not come close to the truth of scripture rejecting the free will of man.

Are you making a truth claim that everything goes according to God's plan? If so, please provide reference.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by GB
I'll let you quote the verses for that. As for me, I understand that the free will of man does not thwart the purposes of God.


GB, You say free will does not thwart God's purpose, but does it thwart God's plan?

No. God's plan was to create a people with whom he could fellowship. God's plan was not thwarted by man's choice to sin. The Bible says that "Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world." That tells me that God foreknew man you sin...not that it was God's plan that man would sin. With Christ providing the atonement for sin, God's plan is not thwarted...except in the case of those who reject Christ.

When God said "Let there be light.", Did he already plan to murder all except 8 people in the Great Flood?

No, God's plan was to create light. You seem to be consistent in assuming that foreknowledge means predestination (plan). The two are different. "The Bible say that Noah was a preacher of righteous." The ark was a means of safety. It was available to all who chose to enter therein.

So did God create humans such that he knew he would have to murder them all, or did he have to modify his plan due to free will?

No. Again, you err because you equate foreknowledge with predestination (plan). From the first two people who sinned, God provided a way to be forgiven and justified. That same forgiveness was offered to their offspring. One chose to accept, one chose to reject. One through free will received forgiveness, one through free will rejected forgiveness.

The plan was fellowship with God. He who repents enjoys fellowship and life. He who rejects receives death.

I'll answer within the quote in bold.


If God has foreknowledge of all that is going to happen, for the human players, yes, their destination is already determined.

This is ridiculous. If I see that the bridge is out, and I warn you, you have a choice to make. Your destination is only determined if you make the wrong choice to proceed.

As for the Ark being open to all, unless you are using a figurative, and not a literal interpretation of this story, that is just plain BS.

You may provide the scriptural reference to support your position. Otherwise your conclusion carries no weight...other than the weight of your own ego.



Answered in the quote.

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