Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Wanted: Flat shooter, light weight

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/10658724/WTS:_Tikka_T3_Superlite_7mm-08

I would agree with some here that the 270 Win is NOT gay. I've use it to take about everything in NA. As said above, it would be hard to beat in a 7lb rifle, though a little lively at the bench. I've begun to use 140s in 270 for a little more BC, and I happen to have a rifle that really likes the NAB.

With that said, I have leaned to the SA advantages of late, cartridges based on the 308 case, and specifically would recommend the 260 Rem, especially if you roll your own. I shoot 125 NPTs and 140 NABs lately.

My second choice would be the 7mm-08 (there is a better selection of factory rounds than the 260) with 140 and above bullets.

And my third, for your application, would be the 243. I like the 243, especially loaded with modern heavy for cal. bullets through a fast (8) twist barrel, and would be sufficiently adequate for your purpose. I've also taken a number of game with the 85 grain TSX and 85 NPT. Both performed well.

I know recoil is subjective but no way would I want a Montana in 270 over a 243 if recoil is in be picture....which it always is. Something to be said for a rifle you just want to keep shooting compared to a rifle you get good enough with and put it up. Just my opinion.

This!!

I'm shooting the 25-06/110NAB combo at 3160fps out of my Tikka T3 Lite. The recoil is very manageable. I've considered trying the 80gr TTSX to cut the recoil even more. I know that bullet has a ping-pong ball BC, but I doubt that would matter much out to 400yds and I have other rifles for use out further than that.

A T3 270 with 110TTSX wouldn't be a slouch either.

Both the 25-06 w/ 80TTSX and 270Win w/ 110TTSX have virtually identical trajectory to 400 and both have a hair less than 12" drop when zeroed at 250. That makes for a great point and shoot combo at moderate range if one doesn't like to dial.

Portability is not simply a matter of weight but length. The Kimber 84Ls are getting to be fairly long with their 24" barrels, while the 84Ms are a really nice length. So that rules out the long action rifles in my head.

A 243 or 257 Roberts is really all a guy needs for the biggest mule deer out there, and will boot a guy significantly less than a standard loaded 270, 308, or even a 25-06. Stay with 100 grain bullets in the 257, and you'll pretty well duplicate 270/130 grain ballistics. Go with an 80 grain TTSX or 90 grain Cutting Edge Raptor if you want really flat shooting.

In the 243, you have the previously mentioned 80 grain TTSX, and the 60 grain Cutting Edge Raptor.....which would make for an ultra flat shooter.

No need to rebarrel to a fast twist or some rifle looney cartridge such as the 260 - people may think it makes a difference, when the only place anything has changed is in their wallet and between their ears, when it comes time to actually go hunting.

Lots to chew on. A few of my thoughts.

The Kimber is a lightweight rifle - even the LA 84L is going to weigh 7 lbs or less, the SA likely 6.5lbs. I had a Montana in 300 WSM when they first came out. I discovered it sucked with full power loads - this is the level of recoil I'm trying to avoid while going to lighter rifles. I have a Ruger UL in 30-06 - bares bones just the rifle/scope it weighs a shade less than 7.5 lbs. It doesn't bother me from the bench at all. I currently have a 7 WSM that weighs ~ 7.5 just bare rifle/scope. With my 160 gr loads it is tolerable. In a 7lb rifle its not going to be a picnic - which is why I said what I did on the 280 AI. I'm thinking cartridges from the 30-06 on down are doable in light rifles. For comparison, a 280 AI in a Montana will recoil 29 ft/lbs, 270 about 23, 25-06 about 21.5, the Kimber 300 WSM about 34.

On bullets, I'm leery of light for caliber bullets at warp speed. I've done that with various 7mm's through the years and they produce a mess at close range. I also tried TSX's and found them less than satisfactory - at least in the early days. Many love them, I'm trying to warm back up to them. I've had 7mm 140 and 25cal 100 act like they didn't open. The TTSX may be the answer. I really like Partitions but not all guns shoot them well. From shooting woodchucks, I've seen the effects of wind on less than slippery bullets. Low BC bullets drift alot with a bit of wind and 300+ yards. I'll take a few more inches of drop to lessen wind drift.

Of everything mentioned, I like the 7mm-08 idea with 120-140 gr bullets. What vels are you guys getting with 140 AB's and 22-24" tubes?

I've also run some numbers this AM on the plain ole 30-06 shooting 150 AB's. It hangs in their with the cartridges mentioned.

Hard to outdo the .260/6.5CM/6.5x47L at light recoil and retained performance at distance. The 105gr stuff in the 243/243AI bears looking into as well, especially in open country. I'm going to try it too one of these days....

I've done that. Had two 7mm Remington Magnums, one .240 Wby, and a custom, 6 3/4 lb. .25-284. All of them would push decent bullets 3200-3400 fps. for very flat shooting.
If you want more, I'm very impressed with the .257 Wby Magnum. Kicks a good bit less than the 7mm magnums.
The trouble I found was by 300 yds., wind can be a much bigger factor than a little more bullet drop. It's pretty easy these days to learn how far away the target is, but calling the wind takes real work in the field to learn.
The other problem can be the rifle's weight. While one can argue that from a solid rest close to the ground, even a light rifle can make consistant hits out past 300 yds., but a heavier one makes that easier. If one must shoot well off the ground, say over grass and low shrubs, then a heavier rifle really helps. E

Recoil is very subjective and is more dependent on stock fit than caliber. As an example I had a post64 M70 that weighed about 9 1/4 lbs in -06 that kicked a lot off the bench. Had a M700 in -06 built with a custom fitted stock that came in at 7lbs. With the same load the M700 was perfectly comfortable off the bench. Also since you are talking about a hunting rifle how many times in a year are you going to shoot off the bench? Is recoil really going to be that big a deal?
As far as calibers go just about anything will fit your criteria although since your western trips are quite a hike from TN using something that would allow less than ideal target presentation may be a consideration so something between 257 and 284 seems like it would do the trick.
Hmmm I think I just recommended a Kimber in 270.
You have a lot of options.

This or a 260.

I would choose a 270, but a smaller case = less recoil.

The 270, 7x08, 7x57, and 308 are so close you are splitting hairs. Get the one you like the most and be done.

I'd go 7x08 of the bunch only because I love my 7x57 and they are effectively same cartridges. Shoot 140 TTSX and call it a day.

The TTSX is not in the same realm of what you witnessed with std pills. The light for caliber TTSX at warp speed behaves much like a much heavier Partition at a much slower MV.

In the Montana, with a desire for light recoil:

243 with Scenar 90 or BTip 95.
260 with Scenar 108 or TTSX 100.
7-08 with TTSX 110/120.
308 with TTSX 130.

There is very little felt recoil distinction between the above loadings. A long action would not even cross my mind. Why not make the best of the platform (short and light)?

The ideal rifle for your desires would be a Montana rebarreled to 6.5 Creedmoor in 8-twist. With great bullets available from 100 through 156 grains, you could hunt it all, everywhere. Such a rifle is available as the Adirondack, but I'd pass on that short of a barrel as being too loud unless you plan to hunt with a suppressor.

For simplicity's sake, start with the Montana in standard 243 with the Scenar 90, and only change if you end up seeing a performance need in the field. Odds are, you won't.

I'd go with the short action for weight savings. Caliber-wise, I would be concerned about the length of the magazine box in a short action and whether it would let the cartridge take full advantage of the long 6.5 (260) bullets without having to seat them too deeply and compromise powder capacity. I probably would go with the 7mm-08, although my personal lightweight rifle is a .308 that probably recoils more than the 7mm-08.

Maybe it's me, or the stocks on the rifles but my experience with recoil is that these all felt the same to me:

30-06 - 150 factory load
308 - 150 factory load
270 - 130 factory load

My 7x57 (which is the same as the 7x08) with 140s and 160 (handloads) recoils, IMO, far less than all three mentioned above. It's a lot more comfortable to shoot.

My 243 recoils less than the 7x57 as well.

So if I were purchasing a short action light rifle it would be a 7x08. YMMV.

There really aren't any wrong answers here. I'd echo those who've recommended 7-08 with 120's or .308 with 130's, both in TTSX.

Then again, maybe you want to talk about wind drift at distance, which might take some of the "flat shooter" out of the discussion. I'm sure those in the know will chime in about that.

Show us pictures of whatever you decide on.

FC

I'm a fan of the 284. You get the most for the least. Next up for me is a 6.5-284.

My 270 weighs 6lb 6oz scoped with a 6x36.

The 243 weighs 6lb 4oz scoped with a 2.5-8x36.


Like Prairie Goat mentioned the 84L is a couple inches longer than the 84M. I'm 6' tall and have fairly long arms and actually might prefer 84L, they're so close though that any difference in handling is very hard to tell.

Recoil between the two is very noticeable. The 243 basically doesn't kick at all while 20-30 rounds through the 270 begins to add up.

If you are worried about recoil, and like someone already mentioned, the 257 Roberts would be a fine choice. That or a 243 and a good bullet.

I've only shot one deer with a 243(90 Scenar) so can't comment much on performance.