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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
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I've seen those HEAVY, and razor sharp pointed trocars BEND on bullhide, and have helped a vet use a big rawhide mallet to get one of the things between a bull's ribs. So lots of shots to the chest where they won't over-penetrate kind of makes sense. with 9 mm hollow points ? .....having a hard time believing I just read that. real head shaker, that one. GTC Sometimes you have to improvise with what you are equipped with, at the time. Not ideal, but probably not an option to say, "wait here" while I drive back to the station and get something different and more suited to the job. (But maybe you and I should just mosey on down to the Pointless Arguments and Insult thread, cuz I think I see where this is going) Improvise ? Mister, you don't know a bull from your behind, and I seriously doubt you've ever shot or BUTCHERED one. not an option to say, "wait here" while I drive back to the station and get something different and more suited to the job. The fact that the Two deputies only had 9mm handguns in their units or immediately available while working in that particular area's a bit of a head shaker, too. Like they didn't have the first clue at what can be encountered there , by way of livestock and native wildlife. "pointless",.....ya' know, that's a better handle for you than some esoteric aircraft designator.... ....suits ya'. GTC "Mister, you don't know a bull from your behind, and I seriously doubt you've ever shot or BUTCHERED one." Wrong...steers and hogs, and shot in the head with a .22. "The fact that the Two deputies only had 9mm handguns in their units or immediately available while working in that particular area's a bit of a head shaker, too. Like they didn't have the first clue at what can be encountered there , by way of livestock and native wildlife." I think it quite likely they had some type of long gun in their squads, don't know. The post I made, that you jumped on was regarding a bull shot in England with an MP5. Probably all they had, or had trained with, and they made do with what they had. Guess they could have said, "Wait here Nigel, and cover him with that Bloody Unsuitable MP5 while I drive back and get the trusty .303."
"Put none but Americans on guard tonight."
-George Washington
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,164
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I don't much care about the advisability of trying to put down a bull with a 9mm pistol (although I think it's a dumb move).
I think there are two issues which affect people in the northwest. The first is, of course, the possibility of overreaction on the part of deputies which resulted in the killing of an innocent, law abiding, citizen.
The second issue is the danger posed by free ranging cattle on a major highway (and hwy 95 is a major highway by Idaho standards). Al though the owner of livestock has no obligation to do so, I think I would be inclined to try and make my cattle more visible if they were going to be on the road. A black cow on a black roaf, especially on a rainy night, might be on your hood before you see it. The owner is compensated but the driver can be killed and there is no compensation for that. Still, ranchers, generally speaking, do not want to lose cattle. As traffic levels increase, it may be time to re-visit the whole open range concept. Another point is, while locals are likely to be on the lookout, travellers passing through might be a little surprised to see cattle on the highway.
In a situation like this, I think it is a good idea to try and identify the root cause. In this case, the root causes may have been (a) cattle on the road or (b) inattentive driving. Of course, the police response, commencing at the time of Yantis' arrival at the scene, seems to be the cause of his death but if the bull had not been hit and the passengers in the car seriously injured, none of the rest of the tragedy would have occurred.
On another aspect: Reporters who reported this incident as a "shootout between armed rancher and police" should be taken out and flogged. There should at least be an effort made to report facts.
A question for those who live in the area: It is plain, from the photos, that the barn is right next to the highway; how far back is the house? Also, what is the usual response time for emergency responders? GD
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,228 |
Little know fact from the Deliverance scene below: ![[Linked Image]](http://blog.ctnews.com/meyers/files/2012/05/deliverance1.jpg) Here, the Reynold's character (the one most relied on by the others for their initial survival) suffers a compound fracture. The original script had him saying, "I ain't got time to bleed." That line fell victim to a second rewrite. Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
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Guess the bigger question Crossfire, is do you ever make a post where you don't insult or make unfounded assumptions about the person you disagree with?
"Put none but Americans on guard tonight."
-George Washington
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,074
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,074 |
Little know fact from the Deliverance scene below: Here, the Reynold's character (the one most relied on by the others for their initial survival) suffers a compound fracture. The original script had him saying, "I ain't got time to bleed." That line fell victim to a second rewrite. Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series. I thought that line was from The Bodies character in Predator?
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series.
Before he became a dick, Jesse uttered those words in Predator.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
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“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,449
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Little know fact from the Deliverance scene below:
Here, the Reynold's character (the one most relied on by the others for their initial survival) suffers a compound fracture.
The original script had him saying, "I ain't got time to bleed."
That line fell victim to a second rewrite.
Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series. Didn't Jesse Ventura say that line in Predator, too?
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,074
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,074 |
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
I don't much care about the advisability of trying to put down a bull with a 9mm pistol (although I think it's a dumb move).
I think there are two issues which affect people in the northwest. The first is, of course, the possibility of overreaction on the part of deputies which resulted in the killing of an innocent, law abiding, citizen.
The second issue is the danger posed by free ranging cattle on a major highway (and hwy 95 is a major highway by Idaho standards). Al though the owner of livestock has no obligation to do so, I think I would be inclined to try and make my cattle more visible if they were going to be on the road. A black cow on a black roaf, especially on a rainy night, might be on your hood before you see it. The owner is compensated but the driver can be killed and there is no compensation for that. Still, ranchers, generally speaking, do not want to lose cattle. As traffic levels increase, it may be time to re-visit the whole open range concept. Another point is, while locals are likely to be on the lookout, travellers passing through might be a little surprised to see cattle on the highway.
In a situation like this, I think it is a good idea to try and identify the root cause. In this case, the root causes may have been (a) cattle on the road or (b) inattentive driving. Of course, the police response, commencing at the time of Yantis' arrival at the scene, seems to be the cause of his death but if the bull had not been hit and the passengers in the car seriously injured, none of the rest of the tragedy would have occurred.
On another aspect: Reporters who reported this incident as a "shootout between armed rancher and police" should be taken out and flogged. There should at least be an effort made to report facts.
A question for those who live in the area: It is plain, from the photos, that the barn is right next to the highway; how far back is the house? Also, what is the usual response time for emergency responders? GD It's been years, but as I recall the road that's just below the Yantis Barn is the "New Highway" and all along that valley, lower down there are ( or were back in '93) vestiges of the original narrow track wagon and model A road evident. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Little know fact from the Deliverance scene below:
Here, the Reynold's character (the one most relied on by the others for their initial survival) suffers a compound fracture.
The original script had him saying, "I ain't got time to bleed."
That line fell victim to a second rewrite.
Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series. Didn't Jesse Ventura say that line in Predator, too? proving that once you place people on ignore, you end up repeating the very same post from the previous 3 responses, because your a candy-ass...
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,097
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,097 |
I for one, have seen a Bull where the hide was too thick on his forehead for a .22 long rifle to penetrate, at point blank range, had to use a 30-30. I also saw a sow that was brought to us to butcher, the had been shot multiple times in the head with .22 shorts, and they finally killed her with a claw hammer. The shorts had penetrated the hide and fat and were against the skull. My cousin that worked for a long time at a packing house, on the kill floor, told of numerous times that the blank powered knocker would not stun a bull and they had to get the sledge back out. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,228 |
Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series.
Before he became a dick, Jesse uttered those words in Predator. You want me to believe a guy that has Jack Black pole vaulting over a possum for an avatar, or, Detective John McClane?
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,366
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,366 |
I don't much care about the advisability of trying to put down a bull with a 9mm pistol (although I think it's a dumb move).
I think there are two issues which affect people in the northwest. The first is, of course, the possibility of overreaction on the part of deputies which resulted in the killing of an innocent, law abiding, citizen.
The second issue is the danger posed by free ranging cattle on a major highway (and hwy 95 is a major highway by Idaho standards). Al though the owner of livestock has no obligation to do so, I think I would be inclined to try and make my cattle more visible if they were going to be on the road. A black cow on a black roaf, especially on a rainy night, might be on your hood before you see it. The owner is compensated but the driver can be killed and there is no compensation for that. Still, ranchers, generally speaking, do not want to lose cattle. As traffic levels increase, it may be time to re-visit the whole open range concept. Another point is, while locals are likely to be on the lookout, travellers passing through might be a little surprised to see cattle on the highway.
In a situation like this, I think it is a good idea to try and identify the root cause. In this case, the root causes may have been (a) cattle on the road or (b) inattentive driving. Of course, the police response, commencing at the time of Yantis' arrival at the scene, seems to be the cause of his death but if the bull had not been hit and the passengers in the car seriously injured, none of the rest of the tragedy would have occurred.
On another aspect: Reporters who reported this incident as a "shootout between armed rancher and police" should be taken out and flogged. There should at least be an effort made to report facts.
A question for those who live in the area: It is plain, from the photos, that the barn is right next to the highway; how far back is the house? Also, what is the usual response time for emergency responders? GD It's been years, but as I recall the road that's just below the Yantis Barn is the "New Highway" and all along that valley, lower down there are ( or were back in '93) vestiges of the original narrow track wagon and model A road evident. GTC It's a damn good road, lots of 65 MPH and that is a safe speed where posted. Just more BS to wade thru.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,902 |
I for one, have seen a Bull where the hide was too thick on his forehead for a .22 long rifle to penetrate I haven't......
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,902 |
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Of course as we all know, Hollywood scriptwriters later recycled those words and they found legendary movie fame uttered by Bruce Willis in the Die Hard series.
Before he became a dick, Jesse uttered those words in Predator. You want me to believe a guy that has Jack Black pole vaulting over a possum for an avatar, or, Detective John McClane? Trust me.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,490
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,490 |
The trick to killing any animal with a 22 is the angle of the skull, if the bulls nose is up the skull plate will cause the bullet to deflect up and under the hide, you need to shoot from an elevated height or throw a hand full of grain on the ground, then shoot when the bulls head goes down and the skull is perpendicular to the shooter, obviously this is not possible on a rainy night along the side of the road, in this case a shot from the side with a 22 will be just as effective.
I would much rather use a 22 than a 9 mm, but thats another story.
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,902 |
They make MP-5's in 22LR?.....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,027 |
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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