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Originally Posted by 406_SBC
Originally Posted by shortactionsmoker
First time I've been on here today and just saw this....

Ship it back before you shoot it and I'll refund your money in full? That's not standard practice and I wouldn't sell it as a new gun, but I could sell it as used -- unfired. We'd take a hit, but that's life.

I've not taken any of these out of the box for inspection, but that's heavier than any I've owned.

If you're not happy now, you never will be.
This is absolute top shelf CS.


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Thanks for taking the time to write up your review. I have been wanting to order a MRC for about a year now and and posts like this make me consider saving my money for another rifle.
Bad customer service is a huge pet peeve of mine and for something that costs a lot of money (to me) it would really get me bent to not be treated politely.

By the way the part about your 12 year old driving your truck on the backroads to avoid the law cracked me up!

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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by taylorce1
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Order and Edge stock and PTG aluminum bottom metal (or go blind mag on the stock but you'll have to grind the current mag box). Sell the current stock and bottom metal (which is very nice, just heavy) to get some of the extra cost back.

Not what you wanted going in to this, but it will achieve your end goal.


Or sell it and buy a Kimber Montana and be money ahead. grin


Even if I had bought a Montucky I'd be swapping barrels, as I wanted a 1:8 twist. The MRC's judicious magazine was a plus as well. I just wasn't expecting it to be as heavy as it is turning out to be.

Rifle & Scope 8lbs 7.5oz
[Linked Image]

Rifle and Bases 7lbs 9.5oz
[Linked Image]

Scope and Rings 14oz
[Linked Image]

I emailed MRC about the difference between actual and advertised weight and the VP of Sales and Marketing basically told me to pound sand in a polite manner.

Quote
Chad,

We are very sorry to hear about your disappointment. Yes the rifle weights are approximates and are being updated on the website as the rifle stock design changed over the last year from using a 3 lb foam and Fiberglass to using a 6 lb foam mixed with Glass strands and Carbon fiber with Kevlar reinforcements.

We will continue to look for ways to make our products better, stronger and sometimes lighter. But weight has never been a consideration on the priorities of the design. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused but I do thank you for the information. We can only succeed when our customers give us information about the products and how they would like to see them better.

Jeff


Jeff Sipe, VP – Sales & Marketing


Wow!!!

That Dud needs someone to teach him how to respond to disappointed customers....

Or just someone to kick the pomp out of his ass.


That's funny as heck, mind if I use it?



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Well I talked to Darrik, and I'm not going to let him refund my money. This is a MRC problem and I want them to make it right. If they don't then I told Darrik I'd work a trade in deal with him at a later date. I just couldn't let him open that can of worms, what if everyone decided they were as upset as I with the weight of the rifle. I feel this is solely a manufactures problem and not a Whittaker's problem.

I've been on email quite a bit the last two days with Jeff these last two days.

Here is my original email:


I recently received a MRC Extreme X2 .243 Winchester 1:8 twist purchased through a group buy from Whittaker's Gun Shop. Your advertised weight for this rifle is 7lbs 14oz and I expected the rifle to be within a couple ounces of the advertised weight. However, that is not what I received.

I picked up my rifle yesterday from my FFL transfer agent, while the rifle was there I had a Leupold VXII 3-9X40 with Weaver aluminum two piece bases and medium Quad Lock rings. I was amazed at the weight I felt when I handled the rifle for the first time, so when I got home I weighed the rifle on a digital scale and to my surprise the rifle weighed 8lbs 7.5oz. I realize that I added nearly a pound of weight with my scope, rings, and mounts, but that would make your rifle nearly 10oz heavier than advertised.

I can't tell you the huge let down I feel in this rifle. I was all set to build a custom rifle that would hit the 8lb mark ready to hunt, I realized that going to your rifle was a sacrifice of 1/2 pound but it also saved me at least $500 over the custom rifle. When I add a sling and rounds to your rifle to hunt with this rifle I'll be closer to 9lbs, and a 9lbs rifle was not what I was wanting and now wish I had actually paid the extra money for a full custom rifle.

Overall I must say I'm impressed with the workmanship and quality of the rifle. However, I don't think I can recommend this rifle to anyone looking for a mountain rifle, since the weight misses the advertised mark by such a huge amount. I took a chance on this rifle for my young daughter to use on mountain mule deer hunts, but this is way to heavy for her to carry all day.

Sincerely one disappointed customer,

Chad Taylor


And here was Jeff's first response:

Chad,

We are very sorry to hear about your disappointment. Yes the rifle weights are approximates and are being updated on the website as the rifle stock design changed over the last year from using a 3 lb foam and Fiberglass to using a 6 lb foam mixed with Glass strands and Carbon fiber with Kevlar reinforcements.

We will continue to look for ways to make our products better, stronger and sometimes lighter. But weight has never been a consideration on the priorities of the design. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused but I do thank you for the information. We can only succeed when our customers give us information about the products and how they would like to see them better.

Jeff


Jeff Sipe, VP – Sales & Marketing



Well my leg pain woke me up at 2 am and I took time to write another email to Jeff.

Jeff,

I can't tell you how much your company continues to disappoint. No where on your web site does it say that the weights given are approximations. Several other rifle companies can list weights and be accurate, why can't your company be on the ball and update a web site?

Furthermore I'm sure you know it's common practice for gun shops not to accept returns on firearms sold. If there is a problem with a firearm you send it back to the manufacturer to get resolution. I'm surprised how casually you are blowing off complaint about your product, that is not how I'd expect any company to treat a customer with a legitimate issue of their product.

There aren't many stores stocking your rifles, so sometimes all us consumers have to go on is what is listed online on your web page. So when we purchase a rifle online based off the information given to us from the manufacturers web page how can you not expect a consumer to be upset when the product arrives not as advertised? Then when said consumer reaches out to the company for resolution they are told that it is a web site error and the company won't do anything about it. In my opinion that is a very poor business practice you have chosen.

Chad Taylor


After that the painkillers kicked in and I was able to sleep until about 7:30 this morning and by that time I had received a few more emails from Jeff.

email 1:

Mr Taylor,

I'm not sure it is going to matter what I say or what explanation I give you? You sent an email complaint asking for no resolution, just an email telling us how much we disappointed you. There really is no resolution to your complaint. It is what it is. We reserve the right to change our product at any time for any reason should we deem it beneficial to the design and strength of the product. We will continue to do our best to try and keep it within the original specs but we are always trying to better ourselves and our products.

We are still a small company and our budget does not allow for a full time person monitoring and updating our website on a daily or even a monthly basis.

I am sorry you are disappointed that your rifle weighs 6 oz more than what was on the website, we are in the process of updating and correcting the specs on the website. But I'm not sure we currently have a resolution that would make you happy. We are in the investigating steps of making our bottom metal for Synthetic versions in an aircraft grade aluminum in order to lighten the rifles. Our bottom metal which is stainless steel, weighs 8 oz. so depending on the weight of the bottom metal made out of aluminum we can possibly cut that weight in half. This may be a resolution for your weight issues but until I have that in hand it's not really something I can suggest for you.

Let me know if that is something that interests you and we can keep in touch if the new design is implemented.

Again, we are sorry for your disappointment, that is something no manufacturer wants to hear.

Jeff


Email 2:

Another option may be to convert it to a blind mag box and aluminum trigger guard. It would require repaint but it could cut out close to half a pound.


Email 3:

Also, just FYI on myself, I am usually available for a Phone call anytime. Emails are always so impersonal and can be construed and so many different ways. If you wish to call and discuss any of these ideas I am open.

Jeff


Jeff Sipe, VP – Sales & Marketing

2016 NRA “Gun of the Year”

2015 Field & Stream “Best of the Best”

2015 MDF “Gun of the year”


I finally got around to replying to the emails just after lunch:

Jeff,

I'm writing these emails so I have record of what is being said, though I'm open for a phone conversation. The problem is your rifle is more than the advertised weight. Like I said your web pages list the rifle to weigh 6lbs 14oz, your rifle weighs in at 7lbs 8.9oz . That is nearly 11 ounces over the listed weight which is almost 10% more weight than listed. If you follow the links below you'll see pictures of the rifle being weighed.
Rifle weight 1

Rifle Weight 2

I would have figured the new composites such as Kevlar and Carbon Fiber would have decreased the weight of the stock since both are lighter than fiberglass. I also realized that you doubled the weight of your foam per cubic foot by going from 3lb to 6lb foam. However, I would have thought that move would have actually reduced the amount of foam needed for filler allowing you again to reduce the weight of the stock by using less material making a slimmer stock. With the trend to lighter weight rifles, I can't imagine weight wasn't even a consideration in marketing of the Extreme X2 rifle.

All I wanted from your company is a "Well make this right". If that means you send a call tag, and do what you have to do to get this rifle down to the listed weight with no extra charge to me. That might mean weighing and hand picking a different stock, making it a blind mag with aluminum trigger guard as you suggested, fluting the barrel, or even contouring the barrel to a different profile. What I expected was a rifle to be within a couple of ounces of the listed weight of 6lbs 14oz with a 22" 1:8 twist barrel and that is not what I received.

My number is (xxx)xxx-xxxx, feel free to call me with what you're able to do to solve this issue.

Thank you,

Chad Taylor


Well see where it goes from here.

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A 22-250, 243, 260, 7mm-08 and a 358 for example, are all going to weigh different amounts. The web site weights would always be an approximation. The guy has been promptly responding and encouraging you to call him to try and work out a resolution. He offered 2 resolutions already.

They do need to update the website but when I see the same weight for all cartridges listed, I know they are an approximation. Based on the emails you are posting, I'd have no trouble working with MRC.


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The weight issue would be the last thing keeping me from one. The mediocre accuracy reports and major feeding issues are what kept me away. For less than that price, I bought a McMillan stock, custom barrel, bolt shroud, and a few other accessories to make my T3 what I was looking for in a stainless custom gun.

Sure, all these things may be glitches and changes they need to work out, but as a semi-custom gun company, all these issued should have been resolved before they hit the market. 1 bad report negates about 10 good ones.

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Originally Posted by 30338
A 22-250, 243, 260, 7mm-08 and a 358 for example, are all going to weigh different amounts. The web site weights would always be an approximation. The guy has been promptly responding and encouraging you to call him to try and work out a resolution. He offered 2 resolutions already.

They do need to update the website but when I see the same weight for all cartridges listed, I know they are an approximation. Based on the emails you are posting, I'd have no trouble working with MRC.



Yes I agree, but if you use a barrel weight calculator like Pac-Nor has on their web page the difference between a #2 contour .243 barrel and a #2 .338 barrel is less than two ounces..338 Fed is the largest diameter cartridge that MRC list on their X2 rifles. That's why I'm okay with a couple ounces of variation. I'm not okay with 11 ounces of variation. I'm not saying that the responses haven't been encouraging and believe me I'll be talking to him today.

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Why not just resell it to someone else on the 'Fire here, with full disclosure?

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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
Why not just resell it to someone else on the 'Fire here, with full disclosure?


Well with full disclosure how much of my $1100+ I spent would I get back? I'd rather have the rifle than take a huge loss.

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Originally Posted by taylorce1

Hopefully I can get my 12 year old to drive me to the range on Friday after basketball practice, since it's hard to drive my pickup with my broken leg. She's getting pretty good at driving a stick and taking the backroads to avoid the law. It's a little father daughter bonding time we both enjoy.




You serious ? That's pretty funny though either way.

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I don't see the big deal between a 8.5lb or 9lb rifle.


Last edited by Calvin; 01/08/16.
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While it hurts someone's pussy. Lose 5 lbs off your ass and life would be good. My 260 is what it is. I can and will haul it's light weight wherever. Don't understand the constant complaint over 5 onces. Again TFF!.


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Originally Posted by taylorce1
Well I talked to Darrik, and I'm not going to let him refund my money. This is a MRC problem and I want them to make it right. If they don't then I told Darrik I'd work a trade in deal with him at a later date. I just couldn't let him open that can of worms, what if everyone decided they were as upset as I with the weight of the rifle. I feel this is solely a manufactures problem and not a Whittaker's problem.

I've been on email quite a bit the last two days with Jeff these last two days.

Here is my original email:


I recently received a MRC Extreme X2 .243 Winchester 1:8 twist purchased through a group buy from Whittaker's Gun Shop. Your advertised weight for this rifle is 7lbs 14oz and I expected the rifle to be within a couple ounces of the advertised weight. However, that is not what I received.

I picked up my rifle yesterday from my FFL transfer agent, while the rifle was there I had a Leupold VXII 3-9X40 with Weaver aluminum two piece bases and medium Quad Lock rings. I was amazed at the weight I felt when I handled the rifle for the first time, so when I got home I weighed the rifle on a digital scale and to my surprise the rifle weighed 8lbs 7.5oz. I realize that I added nearly a pound of weight with my scope, rings, and mounts, but that would make your rifle nearly 10oz heavier than advertised.

I can't tell you the huge let down I feel in this rifle. I was all set to build a custom rifle that would hit the 8lb mark ready to hunt, I realized that going to your rifle was a sacrifice of 1/2 pound but it also saved me at least $500 over the custom rifle. When I add a sling and rounds to your rifle to hunt with this rifle I'll be closer to 9lbs, and a 9lbs rifle was not what I was wanting and now wish I had actually paid the extra money for a full custom rifle.

Overall I must say I'm impressed with the workmanship and quality of the rifle. However, I don't think I can recommend this rifle to anyone looking for a mountain rifle, since the weight misses the advertised mark by such a huge amount. I took a chance on this rifle for my young daughter to use on mountain mule deer hunts, but this is way to heavy for her to carry all day.

Sincerely one disappointed customer,

Chad Taylor


And here was Jeff's first response:

Chad,

We are very sorry to hear about your disappointment. Yes the rifle weights are approximates and are being updated on the website as the rifle stock design changed over the last year from using a 3 lb foam and Fiberglass to using a 6 lb foam mixed with Glass strands and Carbon fiber with Kevlar reinforcements.

We will continue to look for ways to make our products better, stronger and sometimes lighter. But weight has never been a consideration on the priorities of the design. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused but I do thank you for the information. We can only succeed when our customers give us information about the products and how they would like to see them better.

Jeff


Jeff Sipe, VP – Sales & Marketing



Well my leg pain woke me up at 2 am and I took time to write another email to Jeff.

Jeff,

I can't tell you how much your company continues to disappoint. No where on your web site does it say that the weights given are approximations. Several other rifle companies can list weights and be accurate, why can't your company be on the ball and update a web site?

Furthermore I'm sure you know it's common practice for gun shops not to accept returns on firearms sold. If there is a problem with a firearm you send it back to the manufacturer to get resolution. I'm surprised how casually you are blowing off complaint about your product, that is not how I'd expect any company to treat a customer with a legitimate issue of their product.

There aren't many stores stocking your rifles, so sometimes all us consumers have to go on is what is listed online on your web page. So when we purchase a rifle online based off the information given to us from the manufacturers web page how can you not expect a consumer to be upset when the product arrives not as advertised? Then when said consumer reaches out to the company for resolution they are told that it is a web site error and the company won't do anything about it. In my opinion that is a very poor business practice you have chosen.

Chad Taylor


After that the painkillers kicked in and I was able to sleep until about 7:30 this morning and by that time I had received a few more emails from Jeff.

email 1:

Mr Taylor,

I'm not sure it is going to matter what I say or what explanation I give you? You sent an email complaint asking for no resolution, just an email telling us how much we disappointed you. There really is no resolution to your complaint. It is what it is. We reserve the right to change our product at any time for any reason should we deem it beneficial to the design and strength of the product. We will continue to do our best to try and keep it within the original specs but we are always trying to better ourselves and our products.

We are still a small company and our budget does not allow for a full time person monitoring and updating our website on a daily or even a monthly basis.

I am sorry you are disappointed that your rifle weighs 6 oz more than what was on the website, we are in the process of updating and correcting the specs on the website. But I'm not sure we currently have a resolution that would make you happy. We are in the investigating steps of making our bottom metal for Synthetic versions in an aircraft grade aluminum in order to lighten the rifles. Our bottom metal which is stainless steel, weighs 8 oz. so depending on the weight of the bottom metal made out of aluminum we can possibly cut that weight in half. This may be a resolution for your weight issues but until I have that in hand it's not really something I can suggest for you.

Let me know if that is something that interests you and we can keep in touch if the new design is implemented.

Again, we are sorry for your disappointment, that is something no manufacturer wants to hear.

Jeff


Email 2:

Another option may be to convert it to a blind mag box and aluminum trigger guard. It would require repaint but it could cut out close to half a pound.


Email 3:

Also, just FYI on myself, I am usually available for a Phone call anytime. Emails are always so impersonal and can be construed and so many different ways. If you wish to call and discuss any of these ideas I am open.

Jeff


Jeff Sipe, VP – Sales & Marketing

2016 NRA “Gun of the Year”

2015 Field & Stream “Best of the Best”

2015 MDF “Gun of the year”


I finally got around to replying to the emails just after lunch:

Jeff,

I'm writing these emails so I have record of what is being said, though I'm open for a phone conversation. The problem is your rifle is more than the advertised weight. Like I said your web pages list the rifle to weigh 6lbs 14oz, your rifle weighs in at 7lbs 8.9oz . That is nearly 11 ounces over the listed weight which is almost 10% more weight than listed. If you follow the links below you'll see pictures of the rifle being weighed.
Rifle weight 1

Rifle Weight 2

I would have figured the new composites such as Kevlar and Carbon Fiber would have decreased the weight of the stock since both are lighter than fiberglass. I also realized that you doubled the weight of your foam per cubic foot by going from 3lb to 6lb foam. However, I would have thought that move would have actually reduced the amount of foam needed for filler allowing you again to reduce the weight of the stock by using less material making a slimmer stock. With the trend to lighter weight rifles, I can't imagine weight wasn't even a consideration in marketing of the Extreme X2 rifle.

All I wanted from your company is a "Well make this right". If that means you send a call tag, and do what you have to do to get this rifle down to the listed weight with no extra charge to me. That might mean weighing and hand picking a different stock, making it a blind mag with aluminum trigger guard as you suggested, fluting the barrel, or even contouring the barrel to a different profile. What I expected was a rifle to be within a couple of ounces of the listed weight of 6lbs 14oz with a 22" 1:8 twist barrel and that is not what I received.

My number is (xxx)xxx-xxxx, feel free to call me with what you're able to do to solve this issue.

Thank you,

Chad Taylor


Well see where it goes from here.


Ok, I see a 'little confusion'

1. [bleep] all the mumbo jumbo about scope mounts/rings, deal with the rifle. Don't litter it up with all the other stuff.


2. In your 1st email you state: "Your advertised weight for this rifle is 7lbs 14oz and I expected the rifle to be within a couple ounces of the advertised weight."


3. In a subsequent email you state: "I said your web pages list the rifle to weigh 6lbs 14oz"


Anyways, succinct and accurate always wins the race.


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And for the record I dealt with another Sipe back when they were coming out with the actions and because of that SOB I will NEVER own one.


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I talked to Jeff on the phone today and he's will to do his best to make this rifle work for me. I'll be shipping it back to MRC to have him install the blind magazine. Yes I realized I misquoted the weight, Jeff did too but he also knew what his web page stated. He didn't make a big deal out of my mistake.

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No
Originally Posted by sidepass
While it hurts someone's pussy. Lose 5 lbs off your ass and life would be good. My 260 is what it is. I can and will haul it's light weight wherever. Don't understand the constant complaint over 5 onces. Again TFF!.


I'm not worried about me carrying it, as I wouldn't I have lighter rifles. My soon to be 13 year old daughter will be the one carrying it most of the time, and she doesn't have 5 lbs to loose. I'm sure some of the time I'll be carrying it plus my rifle when we hunt together.

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Originally Posted by Pharmseller
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by taylorce1
Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Order and Edge stock and PTG aluminum bottom metal (or go blind mag on the stock but you'll have to grind the current mag box). Sell the current stock and bottom metal (which is very nice, just heavy) to get some of the extra cost back.

Not what you wanted going in to this, but it will achieve your end goal.


Or sell it and buy a Kimber Montana and be money ahead. grin


Even if I had bought a Montucky I'd be swapping barrels, as I wanted a 1:8 twist. The MRC's judicious magazine was a plus as well. I just wasn't expecting it to be as heavy as it is turning out to be.

Rifle & Scope 8lbs 7.5oz
[Linked Image]

Rifle and Bases 7lbs 9.5oz
[Linked Image]

Scope and Rings 14oz
[Linked Image]

I emailed MRC about the difference between actual and advertised weight and the VP of Sales and Marketing basically told me to pound sand in a polite manner.

Quote
Chad,

We are very sorry to hear about your disappointment. Yes the rifle weights are approximates and are being updated on the website as the rifle stock design changed over the last year from using a 3 lb foam and Fiberglass to using a 6 lb foam mixed with Glass strands and Carbon fiber with Kevlar reinforcements.

We will continue to look for ways to make our products better, stronger and sometimes lighter. But weight has never been a consideration on the priorities of the design. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused but I do thank you for the information. We can only succeed when our customers give us information about the products and how they would like to see them better.

Jeff


Jeff Sipe, VP – Sales & Marketing


Wow!!!

That Dud needs someone to teach him how to respond to disappointed customers....

Or just someone to kick the pomp out of his ass.


That's funny as heck, mind if I use it?



P


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Originally Posted by sidepass
While it hurts someone's pussy. Lose 5 lbs off your ass and life would be good. My 260 is what it is. I can and will haul it's light weight wherever. Don't understand the constant complaint over 5 onces. Again TFF!.


Spoken exactly like one that has never been "there."


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Originally Posted by Calvin
I don't see the big deal between a 8.5lb or 9lb rifle.



I sure do... there is a huge difference between the live weight carried in hand and something controlled by other things like straps and such...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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This is not a Whittaker issue. And it is not a stock issue. My LA LH MRC X2 stock weighs 30 ounces and my SA LH MRC X2 stock weighs 31 ounces. They are fairly typical fiberglass stock weights. My MRC .243 weighs in at 7lbs 10oz. Bare. A full 12oz (3/4lb) more than advertised. I am OK with the weight. But wanted to understand the discrepancy. First contact to MRC said "It was the group buy specs." When I responded back and inquired "Which part of the rifle was different spec for group buy?" Got another email from different individual asking "What is serial number?" Provided serial number more than one week ago. Still no response from MRC.



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