Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Bad Idea part two. Anatomic measurements of a winter kill.

Well done. What I would like 2 add is the artists rendition of the broadside bull shows the scapula as being too far foreword toward the head of the bull. The scapula is also not to scale...it is too small. The last piece of art work where the rumen is drawn in shows the lung field on that bull is not to scale....it is too large. The rumen starts between rib number 7 and 8. Thanks. Ass a side note I do not believe scavengers displaced much of anything on the dead cow photos. The cow was frozen hard and immovable. However the front leg is angled foreword due the cow laying down as opposed to standing.

Thanks guys for the collaborative tutorial! Its a great refresher course for all elk hunters, with the excellent illustrations. Its really helpful for prospective elk hunters.

Hey Angus.........you read too much!
Regards,
Knarley

By the way...gnarly sending u a Glenfield also.

This may be the most informative post I have ever seen on a hunting forum. Thanks for taking the time to put this stuff together, well done guys.

Thank you. At least that winter kill cow accomplished more than making my house stink from the dogs belching. John

Thanks LDB, our aim was to provide something useful.

Angus got the gaggy part of gathering data, but as a large animal vet he must be used to this stuff, eh? Then again, he did start this with a nearby dead elk, and did volunteer to gather data.

On the other hand, I got to push the pixels around - light work, but frustrating. It took a while to get all the illustrations done.

It was interesting to work on this with a complete stranger. Thanks for doing the gaggy part Angus. Feel free to add anything you think I missed.

I just think the guy that took the time and posted my carcass photos also needs to be thanked! Without those photos it would have never happened. T Inman Thank you.

No prob...I always look for info on this type of thing...

I appreciate it.

Tipmover,

We could not answer your question with what Angus had available, but here is an answer that may help to get to what your question was. There are a lot of ways to weigh a dead elk, and most are not easy in the field.

The information from a study done at the University of Wyoming gets to the answer of the questions of how much does a field dressed elk weigh, how much boned out meat can you get off it, and what was the probable live weight.

The whole paper can be found at this address. http://www.wyomingextension.org/agpubs/pubs/B594R.pdf

It was a thorough study of bulls and cows and the weights expected.

I am putting some excerpted parts of the paper here for information since this was a good question. I will say that for weight measurements on a few whole animals I was able to make, the UW weights line up closely to what I had. Their boning method of trying to get every scrap of lean meat matches mine.

This is part of the paper:

"The Elk Carcass
R.A. Field, EC. Smith, W.G. Hepworth, and W.J. Means‘
University of Wyoming Agricultural Experiment Station - August 2003 - B-594R

The amount of boneless meat to expect was determined by processing hunter-harvested carcasses. Factors affecting the flavor of elk meat and the relationship between aging and tenderness are discussed [in the actual paper, but not here]. The new knowledge obtained from this study makes it possible to better utilize meat obtained from harvested elk.

Information collected:

Field-dressed carcasses of six bulls and six cows were delivered to the University of Wyoming meat laboratory. Each was split, and one side of each was skinned immediately. The sides were placed in a 38-degree-Fahrenheit cooler at 70 percent relative humidity. Both sides were aged two weeks except for a loin sample which was removed for tenderness tests.

Weight losses during aging were recorded. After aging, one side of each carcass was cut into retail cuts, and the other side was separated into bone, fat, and lean. Loin roasts from both sides were saved for flavor and tenderness determinations. Lean and fat from the boned side were later ground together and sampled to determine moisture, fat, protein, and ash content. The shoulder was removed at the natural seam and boned. All remaining muscles were removed from each hanging carcass. The knife was kept close to the bone so that more meat could be saved and so that large muscles could be used as steaks and roasts. Natural seams were followed when removing muscles from the round between the major round muscles were removed.

Previous printings of this bulletin listed weights of semi-boneless retail cuts, but this printing lists boneless cut weights only. The boneless method of cutting is recommended for elk harvested in areas where chronic wasting disease (CWD) exists and is commonly used by game-meat processors.

The six bull elk studied had an average field-dressed weight of437 pounds. They ranged in age (determined by the wear of mandibular cheek teeth) from 1.5 to 9.5 years with four bulls being 2.5 or 3.5 years old. The six cows averaged 339 pounds and were 2.5 to 5.5 years old. The field-dressed carcass weight included the head and hide, but the legs were removed at the knees and hocks, and all contents of the abdominal and thoracic cavities including the entire gullet and windpipe were removed.

The boneless lean yield averaged 50 percent of the field-dressed weight. When one locker plant processed hunter-harvested elk carcasses, the yield averaged 43 percent. Yields for the elk described in this bulletin were higher because the carcasses were kept clean, most of the elk were shot in the ribs, and all edible lean from every cut was included in the boneless meat yield. When elk are shot in the shoulders or hind legs, when more trim is discarded because of fly strike or dirt on cuts like the ribs and flanks, and when most of the fat from excessively fat, barren cows is trimmed, the lean yields are lower. These factors help explain why locker-plant figures are often lower than the 50 percent boneless lean obtained in this study.

The six bull elk studied had an average field-dressed weight of437 pounds. They ranged in age (determined by the wear of mandibular cheek teeth) from 1.5 to 9.5 years with four bulls being 2.5 or 3.5 years old. The six cows averaged 339 pounds and were 2.5 to 5.5 years old. The field-dressed carcass weight included the head and hide, but the legs were removed at the knees and hocks, and all contents of the abdominal and thoracic cavities including the entire gullet and windpipe were removed.

The boneless lean yield averaged 50 percent of the field-dressed weight. When one locker plant processed hunter-harvested elk carcasses, the yield averaged 43 percent. Yields for the elk described in this bulletin were higher because the carcasses were kept clean, most of the elk were shot in the ribs, and all edible lean from every cut was included in the boneless meat yield. When elk are shot in the shoulders or hind legs, when more trim is discarded because of fly strike or dirt on cuts like the ribs and flanks, and when most of the fat from excessively fat, barren cows is trimmed, the lean yields are lower. These factors help explain why locker-plant figures are often lower than the 50 percent boneless lean obtained in this study.







1) According to a mail-in survey by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, the proportion of bulls including spikes, cows, and calves harvested in Wyoming in 2001 was 48.1, 43.7, and 8.2 percent, respectively.

2) From Hay, et al. (1961)

3) The field-dressed weight times 50 percent is equal to the weight of boneless meat. Because field-dressed weights often vary within age class, boneless meat yield can also vary as much as 20 pounds from the averages listed.

4) The percentage of calves and 1 ½ and 2 ½-year-old hunter-harvested animals from 115 hunt areas throughout Wyoming in 2001 is based on the age structure of 4,185 field-checked animals. Wyoming Game and Fish laboratory tooth-ring data from hunter-harvested animals 3 ½ years and older were used to calculate the percentage in each age class over 2 ½ years because accurate ages for older animals are difficult to determine at check stations.

I was only a little disappointed when I got all the way to the end in their section on meat care. There they kept a backwoods legend that it is appropriate to "Stick or cut the throat" of a dead animal to "bleed it out". A dead animal is not going to pump blood out of its jugular or carotid artery with the heart not pumping. So while it may bleed a little, the damage from the shot already bled it out. This is a holdover from when people whacked a pig on the head to stun it and then hung it and "stuck"it to bleed it to death. That and saying you need to add fat to nice healthy lean meat. Adding beef or pork fat seems to defeat the purpose of lean meat, and the fats are what carry the load of artificial hormones I am trying to avoid.

It is worth looking at the whole article.

Wow! Great info! Thanks again.

Maybe this is a good time to resurface this photo discussion Angus and I had last year. Some of his photos are not showing, but scroll down some.

Might answer DALLDER's question on Bull Elk depth of chest.

Thanks Jag, this is interesting information. So far looks like 28 to 32 inches is average answer to my question.

Great post folks! You guys did some incredible research, appreciate the effort greatly.
Jeff

Good stuff! Thank you, gentlemen!

Too bad all of Angus' photos are not still available, but Photo 1 shows pretty well how far forward the rumen and stomach are in the chest cavity. It comes up in the lower part of the chest cavity about as far as the fifth rib from the rear.

Jag

Ok, the chart has some fantastic information but for this newbie it raises another question. In Montana, a legal bull must have 4 inch eye guards, my question is how old will he be?? Thanks Daniel

usually a 2 year old. most yearlins are spikers, few with browtines

The typical spike is a long yearling, born in May-June, often around Memorial Day around here. So by October is about 1 year 5 months. They seldom have brow tines, and almost never have long brow tines. Now and then you see a weird one. Raghorns are typically at least 2.4 years old, and sometimes don't look like much even in their 3rd year. It can be pretty individual. I have seen a few yearlings with attempts at branches. But for body size spikes are smaller than mature cows, younger raghorns may still be smaller than older cows. Once you get to mature bulls, they are bigger.

The typical spike is a long yearling, born in May-June, often around Memorial Day around here. So by October is about 1 year 5 months. They seldom have brow tines, and almost never have long brow tines. Now and then you see a weird one. Raghorns are typically at least 2.4 years old, and sometimes don't look like much even in their 3rd year. But they will have brow tines and branches. It can be pretty individual. I have seen a few yearlings with attempts at branches. But for body size spikes are smaller than mature cows, younger raghorns may still be smaller than older cows. Once you get to mature bulls, they are bigger.