Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Brown Bear with a 7 Rem Mag questions

Thought that was muzzle tape?

Phil what bullets do you like in the 06?
180/200 Partition?

I guess this shows the tremendous improvements in bullets in the last few years, as this is what Bill Pinnell, the "P" part of Pinnell and Talifson, the famous Kodiak Island brown bear guides, said about the 7mm on bears: "the .30-06 is the smallest rifle anyone ought to rely on for big bear hunting. Some years ago, many hunters touted the 7mm magnum as the cure-all cartridge. But you got to riddle the bear to kill it with a 7mm magnum. "

P&T outfitted from the early 50s thru the 90s so when the 7 came out, probably few bullets in the 7s were ideal for the big bears and I suspect very few of their hunters used handloads. P&T sure weren't gun men, but weren't short on experience with bears as they guided a total of 784 hunters, almost all after brown bears. So I suppose that when it came to factory cartridges and loads they'd pretty much seen it all.

Bill Pinnell carried this surplus 8mm on Kodiak until after WWII




I have a copy of their brochure and they recommended clients bring a 30-06 or larger.

My preference in the 30-06 ( and most any other 30 caliber for that matter) is the 200 Partition

I like the wool shirt....who makes that?

Old Filson? MilSurp?

My coworker spent a lot time with P&T his late brother guided for P&T had some great pictures, he said they had quite a gun room and had lots of guns. P&T got real upset at my buddy for shooting birds in the cannery with a 22 from the gun room. Something about xtra ventilation in the Tin Roof!

Went to a gun show on Kodiak around 84 and there were 5 or 6 Winchester 71 levers, that were P&T old guns, wished I would have bought one now!

Copied this from Alaskan Department of Fish and Game.

Big Magnums Not Needed

The rifle you bring hunting should be one with which you are comfortable. Because of the presence of brown and grizzly bears, many hunters have been convinced that a .300, .338, .375, or .416 magnum is needed for personal protection and to take large Alaska game. This is simply not true. The recoil and noise of these large cartridges is unpleasant at best and plainly painful to many shooters. It is very difficult to concentrate on shot placement when your brain and body remembers the unpleasant recoil and noise which occurs when you pull the trigger on one of the big magnums.

The two most common complaints of professional Alaska guides are hunters who are not in good physical condition and hunters who cannot accurately shoot their rifles. Because these hunters do not practice enough they cannot shoot accurately enough. They miss their best chance at taking their dream animal or worse yet, they wound and lose an animal. Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06.

yar -

Thanks for posting that.

Humm, 270 Win or 30-06......well I guess that says a lot by what all is not said.




Jerry

Some have a bit more experience than others... while I do not like Partitions as much as Waterrat I sure as Hell would not argue with him...

Sitka - I agree w/you and so stated in my post.

Jerry

Sitka, jwall I'm not set in my ways too bad it's just that I have a friend that uses the 175 NP to great success and has a huge selection of expanded bullets that are perfect. In our house,
222 Horn SP
260 NBT
284 TSX
308 NP & SST
30-06 Horn SP
9X57 Horn RN
35 Gibbs NP
358 Norma Swift AF
400 Whelen Woodleigh
458 Northfork
500 S&W Woodleigh

We have used most other bullets in the past but these just seem to work the best for us now.
300 Savage NP

waterrat-

I think there was some mis understanding of my first response in that I was thinking and tried to say that...

there are occasions when the hunter is not given the opportunity to aim at the lungs. I didn't disagree with any of your post, cartridge-bullet.

I was simply emphasising the importance of 'a bullet strong enuff' to anchor a bear in BAD circumstances.

I'm familiar with a few circumstances where hunters were 'surprised' by toothy critters and some of the hunters did not survive the 'worst case scenario'.

OTOH



This quote was not aimed at THIS discussion at all.

I just noted that several cartridges "just as good as" the 270 W are not mentioned.

Separate subject and point.

I hope this clears any misunderstanding. Let's have fun.

Jerry

I haven't read all the posts but why do we continue to have all these threads about using marginal cartridges on game? A brown bear hunt costs $15,000 to $20,000, so why chintz out and not buy a decent rifle for it? Anyone who can't hit a brown bear in the vitals with a .375 has no business hunting them.

*sigh*

Yep, bullets from any cartridge smaller than a .375 H&H just bounce off brown bears.

Indy,
how many brown bears have you shot?

LC

30-06 marginal ?

All about placement and proper bullet ... shouldn't be taken bad angle shots anyway no matter what you use. It's That simple the way I see it. I would have no qualms using a 7mm Rem mag with the RIGHT bullets myself.

What's really amazing, is the number of people who spend the money, but won't spend the time. Money can buy a good guide, it can buy a good rifle, it can buy good ammo, but it cannot buy you a healthy heart, strong legs, or good rifle skills.

The bigger question is why are people who are willing to spend so much money not willing to spend the time (or understand the need to)?

Some folks cannot handle the larger recoil. Just a fact of life. Some are much more senstive. Some get sensitive as they get older.

Its all about shot placement in the end, as long as it has enough power and the right bullet is chosen.

My guide buddy stopped I can't recall how many of the rascals with a measly 338... thats not supposed to happen.

Generally when it comes to what to bring, as long as its "enough" then I'd just as soon you pick a good bullet and bring a rifle you can shoot if you go with me.

That minimum caliber varies from game to game obviously....

How heavy is a brown bears shoulder bone structure compared to an elk or a moose?