Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Cast Bullet question ?

This might not be the correct thread for this question but I'll start here.

Anyone have any experience using "Laser Cast" bullets ? I don't cast
my own. I hear they are really Hard. 20+ bernell. (sp)

Just want to load my own with out the problem of barrel leading.

Sorry if Iam in the wrong thread.

Rabbitdog

You are fine asking your question here Rabitt and we welcome you. Unfortunately I can't answer your question about laser cast bullets becuse unless it has been a commercially produced jacketed bullet, I have not bought or used anything other than my own cast bullets since I started loading and casting back in 1968.

But there are a bunch of others around here who probably can answer you, so hang on and one will be along shortly.

I can tell you that the leading issue is way over blown if you asked me. As long as I have been fooling with cast bullets, I have not had a lot of problems with leading once I learned about bullet alloys and how to do that correctly. I would think most commercial bullet makers would have that figured out and produce good bullets.

i have used a limited number of lazer cast in the past without issue. as made by oregon trail.
leading is a function of several things, bullet fit to the bore, velocity, the alloy mixture etc. Having a hard bullet might not work as good as a softer alloy and actually increase leading if any.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, as leading is not that much of a big deal any way.
I just cut a piece off one of those brass pot scubbers, wrap it around a normal wire gun brush, and a few licks the lead is gone, if any.
Harder bullets can be an issue to in shattering. One of the old style bullets was a hollowbase used with softer lead. Whe fired the sides would expand to fit the bore and stop gas going by. The only commercial bullets in my experience i had trouble with, was not reading the instructions.
and those were the hornady swaged wax coated .429 bullets trying to run them at 44magn velocities. They should not be run past about 800fps.

by the way you can find in one of the lyman books or via internet, the bernal rating of various alloys. Lyman no2 alloy mixture is what most molds are designed for which is about 16.5 as i remember on the hardness scale.
Wheelweights are much softer by themselves unless something like tin/antimony are added.

Everybody probably has a different method, but if I can cut and mark a bullet with my thumb nail, it is soft. If I can't cut or mark it, it is plenty hard enough for almost any cast bullet load.

Hey Ron, this over here on the wall of my loading room looks a lot like your avatar. It's Geranimo and the boys.

i have that picture hanging over my desk. Also have a couple of those rifles as in the picture that came off the san carlos indian rez, borrowed from the u.s. calvary and not returned.
I also have ONE arrow documented to cochise's band.
And i am still ticked they have not returned geronimo to arizona where he belongs with his people.

Tell it brother. What they did to him was just waaaay out of line. Check this out -->> https://www.nps.gov/guis/learn/historyculture/upload/Apaches%20at%20Fort%20Pickens.pdf

One of my nephews is the assistant city manager of Gulf Breeze, Florida where Fort Pickens is located. I have been in the room where they kept Geronomo and all over that island. They made sure he wasn't going to get away.

The Trail of Tears started very near where I now live. The stories told in this part of the country let you know the US Government has always been a liar and in many cases, a murderer as well. When I first moved here, there was a Cheorkee grave on a near by mountain that I can easly see and old hunters tell of hunting across that mountain and spending the night in the "indian cabin" that was still there then.

Not in the wrong place at all!

I have quite a bit of experience with the Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets in several calibers.

As noted in another post, having too hard of a bullet can cause more leading than a softer bullet.

I had a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 with both .45ACP and .45 Long Colt cylinders. That pistol would NOT shoot the Laser Cast bullets without severely leading, yet when I shot the Speer swaged bullets, it didn't lead at all.

I currently have a Freedom Arms Model 97 in .45 LC that doesn't like them pushed hard, but anything below 850fps leaves no lead and is quite accurate.

Those two are the only ones that have given me grief. I shoot the Laser cast in a .458WM, .45LC, .38Spl, .357Mag, .40 S&W, and .32-20.

The only way to really tell what they will do in your firearm is to shoot them at a range of velocities.

What caliber(s) are you looking at? A softer alloy may be your friend.

BTW, there are other bullet manufacturers out there, Missouri Bullet Co LINK being one of the best, which sell "trial packs" of their bullets so you can test them.
They also sell their cast bullets either conventionally lubed or powder coated which eliminates any leading.

BTW, the word is "Brinell" after an old Swede named Brinell who came up with the method of testing hardness of materials by pushing a steel ball into the test material at a given pressure and measuring the depth of the impression to give the relative hardness.

Ed

Thanks to everyone that replied. I have been a hand loader for years. All jacketed bullets for hunting. Some handgun,but mostly rifles.

I don't hunt as much anymore but want to shoot more just for fun.
I want to load "Light". Loading 45-70, 38/357 Blackhawk,
44 Special Blackhawk. Also have my Mothers .32
Winchester Special lever gun. It is pristene inside and outand has a 1-16 twist. Would like to try light loads in that as well.
I loaded some Laser Cast .459/ 350 grain round nose flat nose in 45-70. Loaded to book speed of 1,300 FPS. Haven't tried them yet. We'll see how they work.
Just bought a New Marlin lever gun in 44 Mag. Want to load it for Deer and Hogs,

Thanks again.......Rabbitdog

Well you may be in trouble looking for a 44 magnum load to kill deer and hogs Rabbit. There are only about two dozen good bullets for doing that and about two dozen good loads for that, so your choices may be limited. And if you ask, there will be about two dozen guys to come here and tell you what they are. Heck, they may tell you even if you don't ask.

I've had pretty bad results with the Lazer Cast brand.

It's not just strictly about hardness, so much as size. A properly oversized hard bullet can still shoot just as accurately or more so than a soft bullet. I think the Lazer Cast stuff may be frequently undersized for certain bores.

Before I learned to cast my own, I used Aardvark cast bullets, because they were available locally. I always had great accuracy from them with minimal leading in a bunch of different guns, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. Casting my own was discouraging at first, trying to follow conventional wisdom of softer alloys and getting much more leading and worse accuracy than Aardvark's bullets.

Many,many years ago before I started casting my own I shot the Lazer Cast bullets in my Ruger BH in 357 Mag. I never had any issues with them leading my bore and cleanup was very easy with no fuss.

I still have a couple hundred in a container out in the reloading room that I'm just saving for a rainy day. I may just end up one day melting them down and mixing them with some pure lead to make some softer bullets.

I notice you mentioned a marlin in 44magnum. You might want to look at the articles by gene frixall on cast bullets at the following link: its about a lot of stuff.
part of the thing is the rifling in the marlin, what kind. Another is for some unknown to me reason they have the rifle cut to .431, where most jacketed bullets are .429. This isn't an issue unless you are trying to run cast in both the rifle and handgun. My 29 is .429 to run one over for the rifle it's at .432, or three over the revolver. He mentions in the article about not going over about 250grains i think it is for the rifle.
i cast and load for the 47/70 too, and after one time up to the firewall, no more for me of that. It isn't needed, and i keep mine with a 400grain about 1600fps. I haven't had any leading issues.
anyway the link: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm

you can keep the cost per box down pretty low on 38special.
It's one of the reasons i started casting years ago. I was getting 158grain wadcutters for practice in 38special from the sheriffs dept for 1.50 a box at the time.
When i left that stopped so i started casting my own.
Followed by a 44magnum superredhawk, that store bought ammo was way too expensive, and that was 25years ago.
I can still load 38special for about 2.50 a box, the 44stuff not much more.

fit is king, if you know what size you need your lead bullets to be see if you can buy them that size.

1 to 2 thousandth larger than your bore dia, should work well.

you just need to slug your gun first to see what you need.

Since we are talking about cast bullets, I bought a bunch of Lazercast, Leadhead, & Rimrock.. When I shoot these in my new model Smith .44's. Always get some leading.. I usually clean at the end of each session, so there has been no huge built up. Just heard about the cleaning method Ron mention with the copper pads.

What I would like to know is some leading going to happen now matter what?? I was told years ago there will be a certain amount of "frost" no matter what one does..

I like my guns clean when I am finished shooting, that is probably out of date too..

I don't think leading is a natural event. Either the composition of alloy wrong, not wide enough size wise, running too hard, lube or something.
typically if your barrell is .429 one would run at .430. as an example.
I think some leading issues are created sometimes by lead being too hard rather than too soft.
One of the reasons for powdercoating it resolves a lot of these issues.
I did read one here sometime recently someone saying you shouldn't get leading below 1200fps. I tend to agree with that if every thing is right. It is necessary to try different combinations.
some years ago, to talk about leading, i gave a grandkid a ruger 10/22. and a brick or so of .22lr. She shot it all without cleaning the gun, and it started to act funny so she brought it to me. I just about couldn't see down the barrel with a light it was so leaded up. Took a bit of work to get all the lead out, but it was taken out.
hopefully she learned from that.
Another thought is where the leading is taking place? At the front, or back at the forcing cone.

Right in front of the forcing cone.. Just a bit, but I don't like it.. Thanks.

all you wanted to know about leading, and location/causes:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm