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Joined: Feb 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Fire is Nature way of getting rid of dead decaying wood and trash. You were never intended to build your home in a fire zone, so quit complaining if your home burns.


A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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I don't see how it is "too many people" but rather the foolish policies of so many.

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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
You are correct FB. Wet springs lead to greater fuel loads later in the summer and dry conditions lead to more combustible fuel loads that are currently present. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

And if you don't have much fire for 6-7 years that dieback really crushes you when it does go up.


Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.

Stupid always finds a way.
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Originally Posted by rost495

But my fuel load is horrible if it dries this summer. Might be the worst fuel load in years at this rate.



Jeff;
Good morning to you sir, I trust this finds you folks well on a still and yes again warm Sunday in May.

As one who has now lived for more than two dozen decades in an interface zone, perhaps I can throw out a couple thoughts on the matter - but as always they are no more than that.

After WWII we both began to expand our population creating the need for new housing developments and we began to get very, very good at fighting forest fires.

The new housing developments necessarily pushed into formerly forested areas and some areas allowed more logging than others in the development plans.

As well, lets not forget that each tree we can keep around acts as a heat absorbing unit in summer as well as providing shade, so there's a fine line we trod as to how much logging and underbrush removal we can do.

Then too, up into the early '2000's we were allowed to burn the built up pine needles and dead brush on our properties, but the air quality folks now say an emphatic no that practice.

Fire is of course good for natural cycles, but when we have increased fire loads such as you talk about - some areas here are at 7 times and more than there should be - then the resulting fire burns much hotter and kills more than it would have say 100 years ago.

The result then is that the plants which would usually come back after a forest fire do not. Sometimes this leaves a bit of a moonscape environment which among other things is really subject to water erosion when it does finally rain.

At our place we've limbed all the trees to a height of 8' to 10' around the structures and have removed as much dead antelope brush as is practical. The antelope brush burns dead green however, but it's also a major food source for the local mulies which call our yard home.

The summers in the mid '80's were hot and dry too, so we'll see what this summer brings and as always we'll strive to survive it one way or the other - we don't really have a choice in the matter in that regard, do we? wink

All the best to you folks this summer Jeff.

Dwayne


The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"

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Campfire 'Bwana
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I am hoping like hell that this summer does not play out like last summer in eastern Washington and north Idaho. The air was bad for all but two or so weeks of my three months up there. My place is located in a pretty high risk area.


Conduct is the best proof of character.
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These fires were in the mountains and from my understanding no structures were threatened but the fear is always of it growing and spreading to nearby towns.

Rost, There are logging roads to access for ground attack but a lot of the suppression efforts center around air attack. Fixed and rotary wing assets allow for the application of a lot of water on the problem areas.

Fire is great for healthy forests but can be extremely destructive in dense and overgrown, liberally managed stands.


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
I don't see how it is "too many people" but rather the foolish policies of so many.


Too many folks in places they don't need to be.

I used to not be able to see a single house from our place.

It started 10 years ago. One house 400 yards out the front. Then another and so on. Now our 100 acres is sucky small and I can see 6 or more houses.

We used to be in the country. Its not that anymore.

Used to be rare to see traffic on the FM. But now you see it all day and all night.

But thats my personal problem.

Born 100 years to late and not in the right location and have not migrated yet.

The very last house, just a few weeks ago, bought part of an estate. Put a house in, has screaming kids, and about 400 yards off one of our fences. Right next to my best deer area, will see how they adapt, they always do.

But they cleared a nice area out front, and then a tiny nook in fairly dense woods.... yep put the house in the nook. Trees almost touching the roof.
And they have burn piles from clearing, mostly dead cedars, that are within 30-40 feet of existing brush... likely on the wrong day and time they'll burn the brush and the house down if they aren't smart.

Too many folks, moving into places where you have to respect mother nature or be prepared to loose it all in a blink, and nowdays its all someone elses fault and the .gov should pay....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
These fires were in the mountains and from my understanding no structures were threatened but the fear is always of it growing and spreading to nearby towns.

Rost, There are logging roads to access for ground attack but a lot of the suppression efforts center around air attack. Fixed and rotary wing assets allow for the application of a lot of water on the problem areas.

Fire is great for healthy forests but can be extremely destructive in dense and overgrown, liberally managed stands.


The piss poor management can sterilize a forest when fire should have been a GOOD thing... it can just flat kill it off. Fuel loads to big and so on.

I've never been on a big fire where we had lots of aerial. We were on a 50 acre one once where by pure luck there was a big tanker, like a 135 or such, Im' not good with planes and it did kill the fire in place, I was impressed with those loads of retardant and the tiny lead plane leading the tanker into place.

But mostly here with have a rotary wing or two. They are good for saving structures some, and spot fire type issues, but we still end up having to doze a line or wait for it to get to a fightable defendable space.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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One fire appears to have started in the recent clearcut (clear proof of mismanagement) along the drag line uphill. The one fire is in the same area as the huge Oso landslide that wiped out dozens of homes and killed dozens of people a few years back. Clearcutting steep hill sides lead to other problems downhill and downstream. That landslide was not caused by logging rather a perfect storm of conditions and over saturated soil. Clearcuts are great hunting because of the new growth spurred on by sunlight, so there's that. Otherwise I find clearcuts to be an ugly scar on the landscape.


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Originally Posted by BC30cal
Then too, up into the early '2000's we were allowed to burn the built up pine needles and dead brush on our properties, but the air quality folks now say an emphatic no that practice.


Herein lies the only real problem, on both small and large scales. Liberal utopic thinking kills people and ecosystems every time.

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Much of our place could burn - probably a long-term improvement. However, I would have to replace up to 40 miles of fence - and figure out how to do land payments with no income from the place.


I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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