24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 29 of 31 1 2 27 28 29 30 31
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Thanks- Sorry to be away. Health and money problems.
Here are couple 24ga FHs in break actions, a CBC with monoblocked
585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in.
The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga and 585 Minie Bullets
are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Another matter--- I know it seems like I'm begging for help when
I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really am in a bind.

That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our farms truck
garden business as my my knees are shot and can't hardly
walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition
got so bad she can't work, nearly invalid. We need extra money to try
to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities.
As well as needed to pay for traveling to doctors, treatments,drugs, etc.

Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums
and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and
debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into my paypal account as gifts.
And if you want to mail it, use email below to contact me to get you
my mailing address.

The Paypal email is jegunownerstv.com

Best Regards- Ed

PS-- I really need help. Not astronomical amounts,
but a little from each guy/gal, fairly fast.
We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and research.
The little coming from sale of our groups buy of 585 brass, dies,
barrels, etc, goes to pay to the places, where the money
is owed, for getting them made..Ed

Last edited by hubel458; 09/01/15.

Ed Hubel
BP-B2

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Sorry to be away so long, health, getting old, and interruptions.
Here is picture of a lightweight Barnes bullet in 24ga FH.
Guys cut the back off of 750gr bullet off to get 500gr weight.

[Linked Image]

Here is picture 58 cal Minie slug that's little long on the side for our 12ga
sabot, with the front of the slug above the grooves swaged to fit in
sabot. The swaged front third of the slug fits next to the internal ridge in
sabot and the sabot doesn't bulge out.Just run front into a die
and punch it back out.


[Linked Image]

And some info about 12ga FH and other hopped up shotgun slug loads,
You know we like to use the rifle, IE slower than shotgun, powders.
We like to use IMR 4759 for some loads and RE17 for others where
we have room for larger charges. Those two powders are ignited ok in large
diameter cases like 12ga, 10ga, 16ga, etc, without needing BMG primers.
But we have always been looking for easy to ignite powders of the RE17
type, when cold, that has a speed between IMR 4759 and the RE17.
RE17 uses different process to put the deterrents in the powder to control
speeds, which allows much easier ignition, compared to big majority of rifle
powders with all the deterrent on the outside.

There are some out there made by Nitrochemie Switzerland, who makes
RE17, RE26, RE33, etc, for Alliant. It's the ' RELOAD SWISS' brand available
for those in UK and Europe, They are called RS 40, about same speed
as RE12, RS 50 & 52, same speed as RE15, RE60 & 62 same as RE17.
Also one ' Vihta Vouri ' powder called TR140 available over there,
that Nitrochemie made..

Many guys can't get IMR 4759 anymore, some can't get RE17.
I'd like to get some of RS 40-50-52 powders or V V TR140
into the states, would really be great help for hairy slug load work.
And guys in UK/EU now can load some real hairy slug loads even though not having IMR4759..Ed



Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
We got guys wildcatting our 585HE case,


[Linked Image]

Here is picture of that 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.

[Linked Image]

Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.

[Linked Image]

We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions
made similar, just a newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter
and a 1.60" diameter receivers.

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of our 585 HE reamers on hand,
we have barrels....Ed

[Linked Image]




Ed Hubel
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
Montana has a nice (ideal) size action and they offer a pretty fair price 505 gibbs. I wonder if they will get around to build a 585 for the same price. That would be a good deal, for a nice finished product. You have come up with some very reasonable price options to geta gun, but nothing really off the shelf. Some body like Montana is a known quantity as opposed to some custom builder across the country. Unknown to me.

It seems once the brass came through, this idea has taken off. Congrats on a fine new round.

The only down side, might be that guys (me) wanting an impressive looking round but closer to nitro express levels are working with a very large case. I always though 3" was about ideal. I guess there are some good fillers that allow 750 gr at 2000fps and still use the long case. Sounds silly, I know, but the looks matter and short case like 2.5 does not turn me on. A Montana offering (price same as 505) would be a turn on.

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
No problem in slowing it down just use slower powder.

A case 90% full of RE25 and slower won't even expand the

brass, you can reload without sizing if you want.

I never use less than 90% full.

I Don't need fillers, and cases never wear out with slower

powders. IE; little extra powder is cheaper than cases,

I trying to get Montana make 585 barrels, maybe some time.

I like Montana PH also, I got first action sold years ago.

Our group has put 585HE in 5 Montana PHs. Takes while to get them.

Stiller is making more of Gibbs/Cheytac size actions than

anyone in the industry, and price is little less.

They mainly used Lawton design with few changes, and they

are making dozens of them every week.

I just found out this year there are many Cheytac

shooters out there using Lawton/Stillers, and that the

Cheytac cases are in such demand that they being brought

in by ship in cargo containers to fill orders.Ed

Last edited by hubel458; 10/28/15.

Ed Hubel
IC B2

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
The I guess the 64,000 $ question is what builder is going to take one of these less expensive Lawton/stiller actions and turn out a traditional looking wood stock 585 safari type rifle for the same cost as the 505 available from builders like Montana.

Anytime you go custom, it is time and money and all whole pile of unknowns and decisions. For a 505, I can just order a CZ or Montana and I know what I got and I can sell it later because everyone knows what these are.

I really like some of the examples you have posted. No objectionable muzzle brakes. Real guns you can shoot with a guide or friend as backup without hearing loss. Honest shooting.

I remember biebs, from AR. he was one of the class guys. I got banned for criticizing the rebated rim and muzzle brakes on the 600ok. I believe a belted 585 is the sweet spot for max power in sporting magazine rifles. And some all-be-it limited versatility and a good choice of bullets. The 585, just nails it. It can go staggered magazine for 3 down in cz, just like the 505.

Last edited by fourbore; 10/29/15.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Yes I also think the 585 is the ultimate because it is
really versatile and has a lot of bullet options.
Lighter lead for deer and hogs, heavier jacketed
and solids for DG, long pointed bullets for target
and real long ranges.

As for Stiller and Lawtons they are larger versions
of basic Remingtons and they do make them with wood
and plastic hunting type stocks. I'm at the place
in this wildcatting project and promoting the case, where
all actions get talked about, so as to get the greatest
number of 585 HEs built before I pass on/croak. That is
why I mention them, the MRC PH, THe CZs, big Rugers,etc,and
Enfields, and Ruger #1s for singleshot afficianados, and
other single actions for guys liking them..Ed


Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double
as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than
the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.
Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around

[Linked Image]

Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny type.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed

[Linked Image]

About our 2.17" 585 BB case for lever guns, pistols, AR Uppers,
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols...Gonna try one in 1887.
Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing.

In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site.


[Linked Image]

Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...Ed

[Linked Image]

Last edited by hubel458; 12/09/15.

Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.

[Linked Image]

Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF

[Linked Image]


On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed

[Linked Image]



Ed Hubel
IC B3

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps.

[Linked Image]


Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A




Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
I feel that Bruce Bertram has done a huge amount for big bore shooting.

We have heard that fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, is

working with Bertram in making order of the full length 12ga From Hell cases.

Drawn cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting some, and maybe get in on the run, contact Bertram

at the email -- b.bertram1bigpond.com ...... Ed


Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.

[Linked Image]

The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.

[Linked Image]


Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil
reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed

[Linked Image]




Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH.
Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
compared to many others.

[Linked Image]


Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.

[Linked Image]


Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..

[Linked Image]


Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc, with
variety of bullets..Can get energy like regular elephant guns..Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
[Linked Image]

Hi Ed,
Is Montana Rifle Company building these now? Or did some one buy an action and have a gun built around it?

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 124
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 124
This rifle is actually mine. It is a barreled Montana action that I got from Hubel458. I ordered the stock from Montana pre-cut for the PH action. I had to open the barrel channel quite a bit but the wood stock looks good I think.


The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
Thanks, that does all seem to work

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.

[Linked Image]

Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases

[Linked Image]

Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle mounted it on the bolt
further bac, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added.

[Linked Image]

Here is another picture of the PH 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed

[Linked Image]

Last edited by hubel458; 05/11/16.

Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on 12ga slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.

[Linked Image]


Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

[Linked Image]


Ed Hubel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 647
About the local fellow here making 375 wildcat with our 585 case-


Hello Mr. Hubel,


We just got back on Saturday from competing at the King of 2 Miles Match in New Mexico.


We won! I came in first shooting my rifle (the one I brought over and showed you),

chambered in .375 Lethal Magnum, the round I designed based off of your case.


I’m attaching a bunch of pictures, feel free to post any of them that you want.

I do have one picture of the screen of the camera system looking at the 2500-yard target.

The hit farthest to the left and the hit farthest to the right were my 1st and 2nd shots.



I’m getting more interest in this cartridge now that the results

from this match are spreading across the web.

Happy 4th!

Take care,


Mitchell Fitzpatrick

Lethal Precision Arms

1(989)578-2576



--------------------------------------


Will have pics soon, his case is close to 375 Warlord case

with a shorter neck, and longer to shoulder.

Got guys getting 585HE cases, they all think we have

''the'' case to wildcat... Ed


Ed Hubel
Page 29 of 31 1 2 27 28 29 30 31

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
667 members (16Racing, 1234, 163bc, 06hunter59, 09wingates, 76 invisible), 2,652 guests, and 1,217 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,612
Posts18,398,407
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.213s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 0.9221 MB (Peak: 1.1165 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 14:09:13 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS