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Dale K Offline OP
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Will be accepted starting Monday (July 11) from Pa. Residents.

2 things have changed this year, it's $6.90 now, (the processing fee went up) and there is only 1 week between the resident application date and the date (July 18) non residents can apply.

I dropped mine in the mailbox today. Here in Somerset, the post office is right across the street from the courthouse so it's not much of a trip to the county treasurer's office.

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That brings back memories. Haven't hunted deer there since '93, but always marveled at the system and also the way you just walked up to the County Clerk's desk to get a permit to carry a sidearm while hunting and fishing (at one time, you also needed the permit to carry a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 24"!).

For years, I got doe tags for Adams County without issue. Towards the end of my time hunting there, I never drew one.


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Originally Posted by Pappy348
That brings back memories. Haven't hunted deer there since '93, but always marveled at the system and also the way you just walked up to the County Clerk's desk to get a permit to carry a sidearm while hunting and fishing (at one time, you also needed the permit to carry a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 24"!).

For years, I got doe tags for Adams County without issue. Towards the end of my time hunting there, I never drew one.


It's called POLITICS!

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I just wish there was even a minute chance of non residents pulling a doe tag. I know the drill though, and the residents should get first crack at them.


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Depending on what units you apply for, there is a more than better chance of a nonresident getting a tag. I buy unsold tags every year, after the first round of resident, then non resident allocations.


Oh, and believe it or not, deer bite. Fairly hard.
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Dale K Offline OP
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Jeff, my Dad's farm is in WMU 2E. There's usually tags left for the non residents and then a few left for the second round of resident applications.

Your camp is in 2H (maybe 2G) and those usually sell out to the first round of residents. But not always. And you can list up to 3 units on the application, if the first is sold out, they'll go to your second choice. You can check the PGC website to see which units have tags remaining.

The bigger problem for you is that doe season doesn't open until the first Saturday in most of the state. Then it runs for a week. So you may only have one day to hunt doe depending on your travel plans.

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Originally Posted by gophergunner
I just wish there was even a minute chance of non residents pulling a doe tag. I know the drill though, and the residents should get first crack at them.


It really does depends on where you apply. There will definitely be some non-resident tags available this year with the change in the game laws. Non-residents get dibs before residents get "bonus" doe tags.

Some units will be gone this week, but there will be tags available to non-residents in several units, before residents get a chance at "bonus" tags.

The Pa. Game Commission figured out how to sell some doe licenses at $26.00 plus, rather than $6.90 for residents.

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Originally Posted by Dale K
Jeff, my Dad's farm is in WMU 2E. There's usually tags left for the non residents and then a few left for the second round of resident applications.

Your camp is in 2H (maybe 2G) and those usually sell out to the first round of residents. But not always. And you can list up to 3 units on the application, if the first is sold out, they'll go to your second choice. You can check the PGC website to see which units have tags remaining.

The bigger problem for you is that doe season doesn't open until the first Saturday in most of the state. Then it runs for a week. So you may only have one day to hunt doe depending on your travel plans.

Dale



yeah it won't work this year, as I'll be flying back on Friday out of Pittsburgh at 6 a.m. I'll have to get your help applying the next time tough, Dale. Will you be stopping up for a visit this year? I'll be at camp early Friday afternoon. Should have some time Friday night or possibly Saturday. Sunday's gonna be kind of busy though.


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Originally Posted by donsm70
Originally Posted by gophergunner
I just wish there was even a minute chance of non residents pulling a doe tag. I know the drill though, and the residents should get first crack at them.


It really does depends on where you apply. There will definitely be some non-resident tags available this year with the change in the game laws. Non-residents get dibs before residents get "bonus" doe tags.

Some units will be gone this week, but there will be tags available to non-residents in several units, before residents get a chance at "bonus" tags.

The Pa. Game Commission figured out how to sell some doe licenses at $26.00 plus, rather than $6.90 for residents.

donsm70


Non residents have gotten a chance before resident 'bonus' tags for several years. What they changed this year was the time between resident and non-resident application dates. It's only one week (used to be 2) so some of the late applying residents may not get their application in soon enough and that may leave a few more for non residents. At least I think that was the idea.


Jeff, I'm going to try like hell to get there this year. I'm not sure what we're doing for Thanksgiving and my son has to go back to Shippensburg for college on Sunday so we'll see.

BTW, I checked online, I got my tag for 2E already.

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https://www.pa.wildlifelicense.com/deeravail.php


As of this AM. Residents don't even have to do the get it in the mail at first pickup any more. Or the courthouse stand in line the night before of years ago. Doe tags are passed out like penny candy.


A resident could apply now-3 days late-and receive one for Adams.





Last edited by battue; 07/12/16.

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Originally Posted by donsm70

The Pa. Game Commission figured out how to sell some doe licenses at $26.00 plus, rather than $6.90 for residents.

donsm70


I'm thinking it has more to do with the Deer herd than money. Fact is most Pa Deer hunters these days hunt the first day-watch the camps empty out Monday night for example-and 2 Saturdays. Throw in the slightest of bad weather conditions and it gets worse. The residents are not killing the number of Does they want. So, they open it up earlier for non-residents who are perhaps willing to put more effort into the game. Residents would beetch if the Nons didn't pay more.

The Pa Deer tradition of today is a small shadow of that of the past.

Last edited by battue; 07/12/16.

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Battue-do you think hunter numbers are still down as a result of the QDM initiatives? Seems like the state lost a lot of hunters when that went through.


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Hunter numbers are down but I don't know how much if any is due to the antler restrictions etc. Small game and everything else is down too.

I don't know if you're aware but they have a 3 day turkey season that starts on Thanksgiving and runs to Saturday. That's in addition the 2 or 3 week season earlier in the month.

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I can often get a non resident tag near the old homestead in Wyoming county but never near camp in Potter.



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Originally Posted by gophergunner
Battue-do you think hunter numbers are still down as a result of the QDM initiatives? Seems like the state lost a lot of hunters when that went through.


Gopher here is my non-biologist take on Pa QDM and from what I see it has at least two sides. First, I have no problem with the antler restrictions. People can argue against me, but the racks have gotten bigger. Evidence being what I see and what are now winning the Buck pools. Much bigger racks are placing all down the line. Yes, it used to be a big one would come in, but not in the numbers I'm seeing now.

Second and where I think they made the biggest mistake was over harvesting way too many Does back when they initiated. Pa hunters were used to going out and seeing a good many Does, and yes at one time there were too many, but eventually they started to see none or just a couple; on land that could easily support more, but the war continued. We really did it to ourselves by doing the shooting and thinking the well wouldn't run dry. The end result was much of the enthusiasm for the hunt was lost.

Which brings us to today. With not all that many going at it hard-for what 10 years now-they are starting to come back. My Cousin has a small farm and they are definitely back in numbers in his area that may approach too many. Talk with him on the way home this evening and he saw three Bucks running together. Out of velvet and one was very nice, one average and one that will not be legal. Last year on his place I saw somewhere around the low 80's in total Deer. Some obviously more than once.

I was on a great lease of 1200 acres down the road from him, which has since been sold. Anywhere between 14-20 people. We never pounded the Does really all that hard and we also never had a hard time seeing Deer and with the antler restrictions we kept seeing and taking bigger Deer. Now the cover was excellent with selective timber harvesting.

Cousin has also recently been looking at some camps to buy in the Marienville area the past couple months. He said he is seeing more Deer up that way than in the past.

To sum up my thoughts, I have nothing against the QDM management science. I do think the GC went at it too hard in the number of Does thay eliminated and that had a significant impact on the number of hunters, especially kids, who dropped out or who only are willing to spend a limited amount of time on the hunt. When QDM started I had a GW tell me that in the big woods, before it's over they predicted the average hunter would only harvest-kill for those of you harvest pizzes off-1 Deer every 5 years of casual hunting, but those who worked at and knew the game still should punch out most years.

FWIW.

No matter what, the Pa Deer tradition we knew is pretty much ancient history. Posted land also hasn't done us any favors. Used to be my home county of Armstrong was pretty much open ground. There was an unspoken brotherhood of the hunting tradition. Now it is pretty much posted up. QDM and the quest for big Bucks I'm sure had a part in it.

Last edited by battue; 07/13/16.

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Had another Cousin in Armstrong that was a fur buyer back in the late 70's, 80's when there was more Deer than needed. However, when the GC was reporting a Doe kill of I think around 4000 they were so far off it wasn't funny. He himself would buy 4000 plus hides that came out of Armstrong alone. Not counting what he bought from other counties nor including hides other buyers bought out of Armstrong that he didn't get.

Pa hunters have never been all that great in allowing the GC to come close in arriving at an accurate report of the actual kill. We expect them to do right by us, yet many are not willing to reciprocate.

Then IMO the illegal kill is bigger than most think. I'm fairly sure of it, and it isn't the city boys.

Last edited by battue; 07/13/16.

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Originally Posted by old_willys
I can often get a non resident tag near the old homestead in Wyoming county but never near camp in Potter.



Potter is pretty much included in 3a and 2g. Approximately 16,500 left, so come Monday it may be your year. Wouldn't be my first choice if I was coming from California. However if big woods trips your trigger, Potter is one of the best.

Last edited by battue; 07/13/16.

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Battue-thanks for your input. I always appreciate what you have to say on this. It's pretty hard for me to speculate on what's going on. I only get back home to hunt about every third year now. We still own our camp in Clearfield County, but it's just tough to get back out east on a regular basis.

I have to admit when they first went down the QDM path, I was vehemently dead set against it. My opinion over the years has changed dramatically. When they shot off all the does, everyone concluded that this was a failed initiative. The herd is much more balanced now. All those year and a half old spikes we used to shoot get a pass now. The herd is more balanced, and the bucks we see and legally harvest are bigger, and actually carry some antlers.

It is a shame to see so many camps sitting empty on the opener. I'd have to think camp values must have dropped a bit, as there just wasn't the interest post QDM. We have 7 camps our our trail up the mountain. Two of them are regularly hunted out of. So many have been shuttered. Enigmatic names like Camp Bozo, the Hole In the Wall Gang, Camp Misery, and Bears Den sit empty. Many are in disrepair.

While I'm a QDM backer, I fear that this will get worse before it gets better. The Old Guard are dying off. These were the guys who went to camp for a week or two or more and hunted every day. Lots of kids don't even know which end of the gun to put on their shoulder today, which is really sad.

The herd is definitely better. Unfortunately our ranks are not.

Best wishes Battue, to you and all our Pa. brothers in arms for the coming season.


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by old_willys
I can often get a non resident tag near the old homestead in Wyoming county but never near camp in Potter.



Potter is pretty much included in 3a and 2g. Approximately 16,500 left, so come Monday it may be your year. Wouldn't be my first choice if I was coming from California. However if big woods trips your trigger, Potter is one of the best.



Down to 11,761 with one day till NR's can submit. I think this is the year. 👍


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Far more NRs should get a doe tag this year, with only a one week wait. But it looks like 2F, 2G and 2H will be iffy by Monday?

As far as license sales, they began a period of slight increases about five or six years ago. Not by much, but it turned around from what had been years' worth of declines. Same declines have been going on in most other states with large numbers of hunters.

Sales are nothing like they were 20+ years ago. Youth recruitment is a problem in almost all states. We lost tens of thousands of WWII and Korean War vets over that same 20+ year period. For many of us, these were the guys that taught us to hunt when we were kids in the 50s and 60s. Most of them are gone now.

Leading edge age groups of the baby boomer generation are now in their late 60s/early 70s. Which statistically, is about when people begin to lose interest in hunting due to age, infirmities, etc.

Blaming the decline in PA hunting license sales solely on a perceived (by some) lack of deer, isn't particularly accurate in my opinion.

Some areas have seen deer numbers rebound better than others. Some areas are still short on deer numbers. My area in particular, is pretty much back where things were before HR began in 2000.

BTW, PA doe tag allocations continue to be smaller. 2011: 902,000. 2016: 748,000.

Couple that with the increased number of WMUs that are now bucks-only the first five days and we're bound to kill fewer baldies?


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