Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .375 H&H vs .404 Jeffery

I would like to put one of these rifles together at some point. I've read that there is a point where things get noticeable more poignant on game, meaning large game react much more dramatically to impact. My question is, is that point a .423, or do you have to step up more to a .458 or so?

I was just thinking, and the .404 adds about double to the cost of entry. They .375 will push a 350 TSX to about 2300 fps while the 404 will push a 400 TSX about the same 2300 fps. I realize both could likely be pushed harder, but for comp sake, lets keep it as is. Would there be a noticeable difference in on game performace in the 404 vs the 375?

Aside from cost of entry, the 404 will also increase recoil about 25% in the same rifle.

So, is the 404 worth the extra cost in all regards? In my eyes, cool factor goes to the .404 for sure.

Another question I'm unsure of; will both rifles perform about the same out of a 24' tube, or will I need to go longer in a .375?

Chris

A 375 does not need a long tube- one of mine is a 24" Model 70 and 1 is a 21". I prefer the light weight 21" Mauser. I was also bitten by the 404 bug. I have a barreled action, a really nice blank, dies, several hundred bullets, and a box of loaded rounds. The cost of the stock is the only thing holding me back. Recoil is very mild on the 375 and I don't think the 404 would be too bad either.

Thanks for the input. I don't think the 404 would be brutal recoil wise, but I also don't see the point in adding 25% if there's not a benefit. In my mind, it sort of seems like a 30/06 with 200's compared to a 338 win. The 338 win is better, but is it needed?

What are you going to use it on? 404 is really a "tweener" both in action length and application. If you are worried about recoil, then in reality go lower.

I don't have anything planned for it honestly. At this stage in my life, I'm just wanting to put one together and play around with and have for later in life.

I would like to hunt buffalo at some point.

I'm not necessarily worried about recoil, but I like it to be justified performance wise if I increase it. Like you said 404 seems to be a tweener. Reports I've seen really have not led me to believe there's a noticeable difference until you step up to a 458 class.

I have had a couple of .375s, but now all I have in the way of a DG is a .404 Jeffery. I decided on the .404 rather than of one of the factory or wildcat .458s. I haven't had much time to play with the .404 yet, but so far I am liking it a lot. Part of that may be due to the fact that the .404 was built to my specifications. My .375s were factory rifles that ended being restocked and tweaked, but still not exactly what I would have liked.

I've had both .404J and .375 H&H rifles. Here's a link to my .404J build, which I posted earlier. After shoulder surgery, I sold the .404, kept the .375, also a SS M-70.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7846376/3

A good bit of .404J info.

DF

I have .375s and a .404. I really like the .404. I load it to about 2250 fps with 400 grain bullets. Recoil is tolerable and it carries a lot of punch in a portable rifle. Haven't shot anything with it yet, but am excited to try it.

The .404J can be pushed to equal the .416 Rem and .416 Rigby.

http://www.norma-usa.com/index.php/products/ammo/apha

Check out Norma ammo, using 450 gr. bullets in all three rounds. All three running at around 2,150 fps with 4,620 foot pounds.

And, it can be loaded with lighter bullets.

DF

I built a 404/375 based on D'arcy Echolas design. I wanted the larger bullet but didn't like all the extra smith time need to make the 404j fit and feed well. I have yet to put a lot of range time on the gun, but recoil doesn't seem to be much greater then a 375. I believe Echolas was getting similar speeds as stated above out of this cartridge. I haven't put my loads on a chrono yet. Cool thread I love hearing the different opinions and builds.

My thinking, the .375 H&H is probably more versatile for general use, the .404J a real good DG round for anything I could afford to shoot.

As I mentioned in the link, a real inexpensive way to have a very good .404J, is to get a NH M-70 in .375 and have it bored to .404J. You'd need a RUM box and some action work.

Slightly more expensive option, rebarrel a RUM donor.

DF

Thanks for the input. I've looked at the re-bore angle based on your input, but I'm not sure I want to go that route. You're looking $1200 BARE min, probably more like $1400-$1500.

You can get a MRC 404jeff for about $1600-$1700 that is meant to be a 404 rather than a retro fit job. Or, for about $2k a CZ 550.

I also stumbled across the 380 Howell which REALLY peaked my interest since I know at some point I'll buy something bigger than the 375, no matter how many times I tell myself I won't.

375 ammo is everywhere why would you go to rare 404J?

I would roll my own with either.

Right on but if your out hunting in Africa and by some accident you lose your 404 ammo do you think you would find some from your DG and group?

Maybe, maybe not. Prob, no. If I get to the point where I'm planning a DG, hunt, i plan to mail 2 separate packages of ammo and take 2 loads.

It's not just loaded ammo availability, its brass availability you should be concerned with. Having played the oddball game with a 350 Rigby and 500 Jefferey, I'm content to stick with rounds that use the belted case i.e. 375 H&H, 416 Rem, 458 Win and Lott. To me available brass and bullets is way cooler than esoteric chamberings.

Brass for the .404 Jeffery is available online from most of the usual suspects, as is ammo. It's all more expensive than .375 H&H components, though, if cost is an important factor for you.

For me the 416 Reminton is about perfect for a one rifle do it all cartridges in Africa

You're not the first to think that way. It does seem to be a neat round, .416R performance without the oversized action, etc., available in a nice package at a reasonable cost with the M-70.

To those who've been to Africa, what's the availability of ammo in the mentioned rounds?

DF