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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,727
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,727 |
Seems like finding an old beat up pre 64 model 70 would be the way to go. You would have a much better chance of building a rifle you could get your money out of. Not sure I've ever seen a pre64 M70, even a beater for under a grand. Good commercial Mausers, on the other hand can often be had for $400 on up. A lot of those are good to go as-is for hunting, or for a few hundred bucks, can be put in better stocks. The M70s do have the advantage of the existing nice safety, and for me at least, simple good trigger. Mauser triggers run the gamut from very good to truly awful. Many also don't like the slide-off floorplates on many FNs, but I'm fine with them.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
Simple question, complicated answer, because the Mauser was such a popular action that it was widely distributed and copied - indeed, most modern bolt actions (with the exception of the multi-lug bolts) are modified/simplified Mausers designed for easier manufacture (i.e. cheaper).
Mauser went through a series of models. Prior to 1893 all their models had a protruding magazine except for a couple black powder models which are mainly of historical interest.
The 7x57 cartridge was actually introduced with the 1893 Spanish model, but the last, and best, Mauser was the Model 98, which was made in large ring (receiver diameter 1.4") and small ring (receiver diameter 1.3") versions. Usually you can tell the difference between large and small ring receivers by looking at where the ring joins the left sidewall - with large ring receivers there is always a step-down to the left sidewall, whereas with small ring receivers there usually is no step-down. The one exception to this that I am aware of is the highly prized Czech VZ-33 and G33/40, which do have a little step-down. The large ring Mausers are considered better for magnum cartridges, but either large or small ring is quite adequate for the 7x57, and the small ring is a couple ounces lighter. There is also an intermediate length action which is about 1/4" shorter than the standard 98 which is well suited for the 7x57.
The Model 98 was originally produced by Germany, but sold and adopted by many other countries. It is the model that gunwriters mean when they refer to a "modern" Mauser action. It was built not only in Germany but also Czechoslovakia (Brno/CZ), Belgium (FN), Yugoslavia, Mexico, etc. It is a strong action not because of its metallurgy, which is carbon steel, but because of its design. Properly adjusted it is one of the most, if not the most, reliable actions, with excellent gas handling in the event of case rupture, which used to be more common than it is now. Its large claw extractor and fixed ejector system are the comparison standard.
As a sporting action, its drawbacks have to do with its bolt handle and safety, which in unmodified military form are poorly suited for scopes (remember that when it was designed, rifle scopes were basically non-existant), and its direct acting double-stage trigger, which while simple and reliable, is heavier than many modern riflemen would prefer. These are the areas where most modern Mausers are modified. In addition, in many modern Mauser actions such as the FN (Belgian) and Zastava/Mark X (Yugoslavian) the left side of the internal receiver collar is milled out as a production shortcut, which compromises gas handling, although the likelihood of cartridge rupture in modern ammunition is very low, so it is more a theoretical risk than a practical one.
So, good modern modified sporting Mausers include:
FN (Belgian) - also the basis of some J.C. Higgins, Western Field, Browning, High Standard, and early Husqvarna models. The Browning and FN versions are somewhat pricy, the Husqvarnas (model 640) a little less so, the private label brands, e.g. J.C, Higgins (Sears) and Western Field (Montgomery Ward) least expensive.
Zastava (Yugoslavian) - Interarms Mark X, Remington 798, more variable in quality than the best actions
Brno (Czech) - 21H/22F (small ring) and ZG-47 (large ring) - pricy particularly as collector interest increases.
The Husqvarna is a special case, because early post-WW II rifles were built on FN actions, then Husqvarna developed their own (small ring) action on a modified 1896 Mauser action, which does not contain a number of the safety features of the 98 Mauser but because of its superior steel is considered as strong as any modern action.
Some military Mausers (can be sporterized with modified bolt handle, aftermarket trigger, low scope safety) include:
GEW 98 (large ring German)
VZ24 (large ring Czech)
Argentine 1909 (large ring, made by DWM in Germany, prized for its exceptional finish and trigger guard bow floorplate release)
VZ33 and G33/40 (small ring Czech)
98a carbine (small ring German)
1910 and 1936 Mexican (small ring Mexican) - designed for the 7x57 cartridge, slightly shorter action than standard 98.
For reading material, Ludwig Olson's "Mauser Bolt Rifles" (available from Brownells) is considered the standard text.
Another good reference which covers many bolt actions including Mausers and many others, is Frank de Haas "Bolt Action Rifles" Add to this reading list Stewart Otterson's book "The Bolt Action". Otterson was a patent examiner and firearms enthusiast and the 2 volume set examines the history, specifications and dimensions of a number of actions and, includes detailed drawings of each. Excellent reference books.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,132
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,132 |
Seems like finding an old beat up pre 64 model 70 would be the way to go. You would have a much better chance of building a rifle you could get your money out of. Not sure I've ever seen a pre64 M70, even a beater for under a grand. G P64 M70 $850 in classifieds
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,027 |
I have seen a few old model 70's that guys have refinished. If the stocks been cut, that doesn't matter. That old walnut can be made to look real nice. Then if an original stock comes along, it can be swapped out. The value goes way up, making it easy to sell. It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you needed money in a hurry. I would much rather have a 70 than a Mauser. If you tell someone you have an old Mauser to sell, your not going to get much interest. If you say pre64-70, you better get out of the way! You end up putting money in rifle that you can't run fast enough to get someone to buy.
Last edited by hanco; 08/10/16.
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Posts: 48,000
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,000 |
I have seen a few old model 70's that guys have refinished. If the stocks been cut, that doesn't matter. That old walnut can be made to look real nice. Then if an original stock comes along, it can be swapped out. The value goes way up, making it easy to sell. It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you needed money in a hurry. I would much rather have a 70 than a Mauser. If you tell someone you have an old Mauser to sell, your not going to get much interest. If you say pre64-70, you better get out of the way! You end up putting money in rifle that you can't run fast enough to get someone to buy. Sporterized mausers are pretty cheap in these parts. I've bought them for $175.00 etc...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 269
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 269 |
"It's a whole lot easier to sell a 70 if you need money in a hurry."
That's true of Winchesters, generally. They all have enough of a cult following that at any given time, there will likely be someone fairly local that has the money to invest in a Winchester. A sporterized Mauser, even a really nicely done custom one, or for that matter, a commercial Mauser, will probably take a lot more peddling to get it sold.
Personally, I find military rifles that someone else has "sporterized", to be affordable bases for using rifles. That is, if they haven't been screwed up too badly in the "sporterizing" process, and, of course, have decent bores.
Last edited by Ploughman; 08/12/16.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,909 |
And how do the ZKK 600 stand in everyone’s eyes?
Old thread but a great one.
Last edited by 257_X_50; 10/16/19.
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,653
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,653 |
Some of the best made imho. I’m very biased for all things cz/Brno...but it’s only because i appreciate their quality. The only rifles I own at cz/Brno at this point
This was a great post...except the stupid comments about the vz24.
GOD Bless America
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,909 |
Some of the best made imho. I’m very biased for all things cz/Brno...but it’s only because i appreciate their quality. The only rifles I own at cz/Brno at this point
This was a great post...except the stupid comments about the vz24. How close are they in size are they for fitting a stock? Say a 1909
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Posts: 6,750
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,750 |
This thread has arisen from the dead.
Old Corps
Semper Fi
Get off my lawn.
FJB
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639 |
This thread has arisen from the dead. Yup.....it's nine years old.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,063
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,063 |
No wonder some people claim many Campfire members are living in the past....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Posts: 37,056
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,056 |
No wonder some people claim many Campfire members are living in the past.... Could be more of a fact than a claim. Guess I resemble that remark. Ha! DF
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,063 |
DF,
There apparently is an "age factor" on the Campfire. Somebody (was it you?) started a thread within the past year, asking the age of members. Quite a few responded, and the average was late 60s.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Posts: 37,056
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,056 |
Wasn’t me, but I do resemble that profile.
Like has been said, be nice to old farts, you may be one some day.
Well, seems we’re well represented in those ranks.
DF
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 938
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 938 |
Welp, old thread or not, I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for the CZ version. Either in this thread or the Mauser forum. Seeing as I own two CZ's I guess my next purchases will be a bottle of single barrel and a therapy dog.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,063 |
CZ controlled-feed actions strongly resemble 98's, with many of the same or similar features--but they are not strictly Mauser 98 actions.
I personally really like the CZ 550, having owned and hunted with several a LOT....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 217
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 217 |
Welp, old thread or not, I'm not seeing a whole lot of love for the CZ version. Either in this thread or the Mauser forum. Seeing as I own two CZ's I guess my next purchases will be a bottle of single barrel and a therapy dog. My favourite rifle is a cz 750 s1 m1. ( basically a 550 ) It is a finely made rifle.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 938
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 938 |
OK, scratch the dog, but I'm still buying a bottle of single barrel.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,639
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Wasn’t me, but I do resemble that profile.
Like has been said, be nice to old farts, you may be one some day.
Well, seems we’re well represented in those ranks.
DF Ahhhhh Haaaaa….listen up here....you young whippersnappers...just get an ole Mauser and glue up some wood and break out the checkering tools, throw them all together, and you'll have a bang stick ready to put venison in the freezer.....and with a modicum of style too I might add. We don't need twelve pages of talk about it either.....maybe I can find a few images.....
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