Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 348 Bullet tests...moose verified

Lot's of 348 Win bullet testing (see previous threads) time to verify the Winchester 71 on game. Took the old 71 out on a trip this weekend.

Not much time to hunt lately but I managed to take Friday off, study my maps of the Yukon and find a place suited well to the surface drive engine and my big 21 foot Scott Freighter canoe. This rig is very shallow water capable and I also brought a big Tripper canoe to portage into some little hunted further lakes. Didn't need it as 3 hours into the hunt we saw a moose moving out ahead of us in the very shallow connector between two lakes. Loaded up the 71 and followed slowly. Around a bend and there was a small bull with one antler. (Before I go any further In the Yukon a motor boat is the only allowable huntable power vehicle.)

Got as close as I could and shut off the motor for the final glide. The cow vanished up an escape route and as I hoped the bull followed her across the narrow channel. I swung the boat broad side to get my son out of the line of fire and waited for him to hit land...( cleaning a bull in water isn't fun) As he stepped onto dry land I threaded a bullet between two willow thickets and thought I saw hip drop....after that he vanished from sight.

Range was perhaps 125 yards. We edged closer and I landed at a game trail I thought he had used...no bull. I went up the hill and at the hill top it opened into a nice semi-clearing... No bull. No blood trail. My son came up to join me and said he thought he had heard something grown about 20 yards from where I started up the hill. Went down and sure enough there was my bull. He hadn't moved from when hit, I had simply landed to early and picked the wrong trail. 6 hours later he was in my boat and my back was very soar!

Bullet used 200 grain Hornady with 62 grains of 4451 and CCI 250 primers given a crimp with the lee factory crimp die. This is a 2500fps load and groups consistently well under 2" with magnum primers.

Impact velocity 2050 ft sec and 2500 ft sec

Bullet performance... wrecked about 15 pounds of meat, broke front shoulder, and entered into high lung and burried into off shoulder..did not penetrate. Finishing shot to neck-base of skull at three yards completely wrecked spine. Did not exit. Neither bullet recovered.

Bullet showed perfect performance for a deer possibly elk but a bit low on penetration for moose. That said I have never dropped a moose like this before even with the 358 Norma.

Lessons learned: 1) the 200 Hornady might be a bit frangible for something as big as a moose. 2) Moose quarters are heavy, 3) I am really stiff today,,need to hit the weights more consistently. 3) I love the freighter canoe and Louisiana Mud Motor combo..made for each other and this kind of land scape.

Expect a 12 hour day today meat processing but have a video on the go and more pictures. Here are three to get the party started.

1) Loading the beast.


2) The moose following his girl friend across the channel


3) Moose down 5 yards from the waters edge and our canoe can get very close. Put him down instantly.



Video here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO1ljh6jF2c

That was a good post!

Very well done!!!!!!!

Hell of a deal North61, well done and CONGRATULATIONS!

Great hunt and story, congratulations and the fact you used a 348 makes all the cooler!

Thanks all..the old 348 did a great job....had to shoot pretty fast and the wonderful balance helped out a great deal.

Pretty cool. Gotta love those old 71's... I believe this is what they were really made for..

Nice moose and an fantastic experience.

I'd love to go on an moose hunt with one of my Browning 71 rifles. It would be an dream come true.

It has been a pretty busy time of meat cutting. Have a wack of hamburger and sausage. Quarters still hanging. Going to Vancouver for work tomorrow so am reluctantly taking the quarters to the butcher. Been a fun project. This was a near perfect hunt and my son really wants to do the shooting next year. The rifle he wants to use...Why the 348 of course. It works for left eyed guys like him!

I think he's a deserving lad!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9zXoYxq7A

Video back up..I thought the first version was too long.

First and last moose I shot was a number of years ago. Used a Savage 99 in 358 Win. Worked good not, but needed the bull to die instantly. Broad side shot about 80 yards. The bull turned a180 and stood there, so placed a second in the chest again. His head dropped a bit and he walked right out into a pond and died. Always wanted to drop one as North did right next to the boat, but still on the dry. Had a tough time with that one, needless to say, we had a full days and then some after we got that bugger to shore. Not in a boat just a couple mile walk from the house.

The first slug cliped the bottom of the heart and the second was right in the chest also, both good shots, just very tough critters.

Like your writings North. I've had a love hate relationship with the 348 and sold a standard and a delux. Just picked up one last year to give it a second go. A lot older now and think things will be very different this time.

I enjoy your 348 research and this is a fun story to read. Thanks for the video.

Nighthawk: What bullet did you use in your 358? Thanks.

Bobmn.
200 grain Winchester, I want to say silver tips, but I think the silver tips where 250 grain, which I did not have. It's been a few decades now. I'm using my phone as my computer is down. So bare with me.
I wanted to say as this is about 348 model 71's and moose, I did buy a 71 from a fellow here on the Campfire. It had been changed up in that it has a full length mag tube, a Lyman peep and a Monte Carlo stock that was short at 12 1/2". Well I was hunting up a stock and just could not find one. Found 2 on eBay but missed them for $150 - $200, which I would pay for an original. Came across a third one on eBay for $20 buy it now, got that one!!!
Well a Smith friend fitted the stock and added a Decelerator pad.. So long story short I thought I'd give the 348 a try again. Will be starting some loads this winter just as soon as I get laid off..

Picked up a Browning 71 with the sole intent to make a 50 Alaskan. John Taylor rebarreled it for me, all in all a 5 year project. Not Taylor's fault.. Point is the Browning sparked the intreast in a 71 again.

Thanks...it was a labour of love. Since this thread has been brought back from the dead I can give you a part 2. We got the Freighter canoe out again this year and went moose looking. This time my 14 year old son was the hunter and I acted as moose guide. My son really prefers a scope so unfortunately I had the 348 as a back up where he took a Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster topped with a 2.5X Leupold. Funny thing is the 450 shoots bullets of the same weight as the 348 at about the same speed. It also totally anchored the Moose and we were very pleased with it's performance. I was pretty happy with my sons performance as well and appreciated the 348 by our side when cutting up moose in the dark, nothing else I have used comes up quite so nicely as a point and shoot defense rifle. Maybe my son will let me shoot a moose again one of these years and I'll report back on the 348 again...or perhaps I'll get a Bison this winter. If so it will be with 250 Woodleighs as though I appreciate the 200 Hornady I think Bison might be a step too far.

450 Bushmaster Moose


.452, 250 Flextip on off shoulder after penetrating 3 feet of moose. Over 80% weight retention


Video re Bullet performance of 450
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBCurbTQ7Qc

Video re the hunt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vks-OUIeqps

Very nice. Always look forward to the special and the rare times I get with my son, there always treasures. The two of you make a good team. My next step for me will be with my Grandson who just turned 5, my have to wait a couple of years.

This is first rate performance from the 348 WCF and Model 71. I am beginning to assemble research on hunting incidents and experiences comparing the original 348 WCF cartridge with the wildcats.
My initial premise is pretty simple: with today's modern bullets like the Woodleigh-Swift-Alaska Bullet Works-Hawk; re-chambering and wildcatting may not be necessary
against the performance of the original caliber. That being said, the exception would be in hunting or guiding with the large coastal brown bears of Alaska-Canada.
The Kodiak or brown bear is a different beast when aroused or angry, necessitating a tougher bullet and caliber if the bear is charging a hunter.

Appreciate your work and video of the hunt. Stay in touch.

I haven't had any experience with the 348 Improved or big boys like the 450 or 50 Alaskans. However, with the Swift bullets I'd feel pretty good against a Brown Bear. I don't think the extra speed of a 348 Improved would help much and the big Wildcats like the 450 would slow down recovery time and the second shot. That said I would understand anyone who wanted some more power. The big bears are a tad scary!

Elmer Keith said the 200 grainers handicapped the .348. He said it could be a great cartridge with a 250.

Its not always as simple as it seems with big game. Bears are a whole different animal with amazing tenacity to life. Dr. Stephen Herrero, U. of Calgary
and I have corresponded for a couple of years. He is the author of Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance. He generally goes along with the US Forest Service
recommendation of 338-WM-375 H&H, 458 WM. These are bolt action rifle calibers and there I slightly part company with the USFS. No bolt action can keep up with an 1886/Model 71 if aimed rapidity of fire is the desired result. The other challenge is the tendency to drop the bolt action slightly from the shoulder on repeat shots-especially with the long action 375 H&H. I have early Model 70s in 338 and 375 Holland. Without LOTS of practice-you lose time in bolt handling for re-chambering the next round. Coupled with a rifle off the shoulder that spells real problems. I have faced down bears in the lower 48 and Alaska. They are amazingly fast and can be on you before you can blink.

Harold Johnson , the originator of the 450 Alaskan, shot bears with the 30-06 and various calibers. He realized that a charging bear may be killed by a bullet from a lesser caliber,
but not before the bear evens the score with the hunter. There are cases on file. The idea is to STOP the bear with a shoulder down or broken-or possibly a center of mass spine/heart shot. Just last year in Glacier National Park-at the West boundry-a mtn biker slammed into a 6-yr old grizzly, rounding a curve. He was killed almost immediately by the bear. So...in bear country I carry a 450 Alaskan with 400 gr FP Hawk or Alaska Bullet Works bonded core bullets, in a 1936 pre-war Model 71. The old timers in Alaska
carried 1886 45-70s, 50-110s, and 405 1895 rifles for a reason. They lived to tell the tale.

Life is short, eat desert first and keep your eyes on the skyline-nose into the wind.

He also liked the 250 Silvertip. The 200 Swift A-Frame will out-penetrate the 250 Silvertip all day long, even when the Silvertip doesn't break apart it won't penetrate like the A-Frame. With modern bullets I think you can get by with less bullet weight.

I won't argue. I have been up close to big Grizzly and Polar bears and the muscular development and intimidation factor are pretty amazing. I'd be confident in the 348 but if I knew I was going into battle I'd have my 1895 in 405 Win (300g Woodleighs) in my hands, or my guidegun in 450 Marlin (405g Woodleighs). There is no replacement for displacement but if all I had was the 348 I could do a lot worse!

Great story. Have you tried the GS Custom bullet?

http://www.gscustomusa.com/348180HV242.html

North61 ,

Great story & pictures -I subscribed to your channel .

These big bore cartridges are really interesting , bought a H&R 444 a couples of years ago - love it .


How deep is the water generally speaking where you were ?
What motor is on your sons canoe boat ?

Really like the Ruger 450 you put together for your son too , that was a great video .

The water on the little series of lakes varies but is often quite shallow down to 6-8 inches in spots . Has a silt bottom which is unusual up here. We have a Suzuki 2.5 Horse on the small aluminum freighter. Water cooled so not ideal but it's a good motor. Quiet and lots of power in 30 pounds.

Nope..but they look pretty great!

North61 ,

Thanks , I have a yamaha 2.5hp on a Gheenoe 13' .

That ought to work quite nicely.

Think I'll take the 348 Bison hunting this year. The 200 Hornady FN and 4451 with mag primers shoot so well I start to wonder what would happen if I slipped one behind the front shoulder of a Bison.

my dear friend when he lived in Alaska always used a 338 w.mag. he felt that caliber knock bears down good enough and was easier size rifle to handle ,he said he had no use for the old Winchester levers in the bigger bores ,he said he preferred to kill his bears farther away if he could. this marine was a wounded frontline viet nam vet who patrolled with rock soldiers so he knew combat the hard way ! nice pictures and great story but always use enough gun on big bears ,bears die hard,when elk hunting in big bear country we all carried 338 win.mags.

I am a big fan of a pair of 358 Norma bolt guns I have used for a lot of hunting. For a long while these where all I used for moose. There is something to be said for the fast mediums. The impact of a GOOD 250 grain bullet at 2800FPS is a noticeable thing, (when well placed). However the 348 is so nicely balanced and pointable that in a hurry, I can shoot it a bit better. I can also make a fast repeat shot. It also turns out a 200 or 250 grain bullet at 2500 or 2250 is pretty noticeable too.

Too each his own! No quarrell with a bolt man and the great 338!

the 358 norma mag is a heck of a cartridge,i got a custom 350 rem.mag with a 24 inch barrel but both your gun and my 350 are hard to find shells for,i am a hand loader too but like the option of store shells available too, so if I hunt were big bears roam, I just use 338 win mag. ,but I do have a lot of respect for all norma mags. in big bear country I now may carry my new Browning BLR 300Win. mag this gun handle`s real fast and has plenty power too,with some long range capability, and here again stores carry plenty 300 win. mag ammo too.

Thanks..the water depth really depends on the lake or river. Often pretty shallow. My son has a Suzuki 2.5 on his canoe. Good motor.

Own an early pre-64 Model 70 in 375 H&H along with another pre-64 70 Alaskan in 338 WM-both original. They are excellent rifles for semi-open country elk and moose hunts.
In the thick Alaskan bush, however-I start reaching for one of the pre-war Model 71s. You must have a fast handling rifle if bruin is waiting by the covered up
meat pile. Their speed is astounding. Getting repeat shots into Mr. Grizzly is critical. Montague Stephens, William Wright, and Harold Johnson all wrote of close up and
personal encounters. I have had to back down a few and nothing under a 450 or 50 really is comforting.

North-do you know of anyone with experience using the 230 gr bonded North Fork bullet? Their weight appears ideal for the 348 WCF.

For years in the SE-have used the PokeBoat-a cross between a bidarka and a LA pirogue. its about 13 ft long and will carry dog and hunter in 4 inches of water.
A backup push pole or paddle set moves one quietly through any water. Weighs 35 lbs and can be carried under an arm-full length.

Great read and excellent videos sir. We have a kindred spirit with the same taste in rifles. In the early 80s I picked up a copy of a 1968 Gun Digest. I was drawn to the 600 Remington's. a few years later one of the guys that worked in the gun shop that also worked in told me he had someone selling a 600 in .350R,M. He knew I wanted one. I've had that gun for over 30 years. Have not seen any moose around Georgia yet to test it on, maybe with Global warming (LOL) they will be pushed down here. A similar story with the model 71 348. A fellow came into the shop wanting to give away a cartridge collection. In it I found a .348 Win round, it peeked my curiosity. It took the advent of the internet years later to find my first one. Not many Model 71 Winchesters made their way to Georgia back when they were being made, since there was very few deer around back then. One day in near future I'm retiring and moose is on the list.

I do like the 348 win. in a model 71 Winchester and I just took a deluxe 71 in trade at my shop, but when I am in real heavy cover and in bear country with a animal either down to pack out or on a blood trail if I have a choice of close range gun I`ll take my old Remington 870 pump 12 gauge with slugs , old shotguns might not have any class or look neat compared to any rifle but a 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs will put the hurt on all bears at close range.