Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Lapua Naturalis Bullets - Loads and Performance on Game

Those look good I'll be watching with interest how your latest loads do.

Have seen about a dozen "bang flop" kills on cow moose, boar and fallow deer from members of my hunting team when I lived in Sweden. Maybe half dozen more that went up to 50 meters after the shot. Most all the shots were under 100 meters and were fired from .308 Win or .30-06 rifles.

Small sample at close range but they performed well in that caliber. The bc leave a lot to be desired IIRC compared to many other bullets. The wound channels were sufficient without excessive damage or lead bits floating around.

They seem to work quite well for driven hunting but I could think of a lot better projectiles to use (even lead free projectiles) if one planned on shooting past MPBR.

When loading the 7mm Magnum cartridges, I noticed that the cases get only 80% or so full so I researched the reloading manuals to see if there is an issue. The Norma reloading manual has several loads with 150 grain bullets which have a few more grains of MRP. It also shows loads which are in the same range as my loads so I think I am good and probably on the mild side for 7mm Remington Magnum.

For the sake of exploration, I also loaded 12 rounds of 7mm Magnum with Norma 217 powder which is slower than MRP. This powder seems to be more suitable as it fills the case nicely till the neck. Do, I now have this additional load to test too:

7mm Remington Magnum: 69 - 72 grain Norma 217, Lapua Naturalis 155 grain bullet.

The 7mm Mag is actually an over-bore cartridge so Norma 217 may end up being the better powder for it. We'll see..

PS. Happy Thanksgiving!

Range results:

Load Series I (7mm Magnum, Lapua Naturalis, Norma MRP): This series was perhaps too mild. Average velocity about 2720 f/s for 60 grain charge to 2750 f/s for 62 grain charge. The 62 grain charge produced an outstanding group (about 0.5 inches) at 100 yards.

Load Series II (7mm Magnum, Lapua Naturalis, Norma 217): This load was perhaps too hot. My starting load with 69 grain of powder resulted in average velocity about 2930 f/s. Since this is already close to top speed I was expecting, I did not fire the rest of the series. Accuracy was acceptable (group about 1 inch).

Load Series III (300 Win Mag, Lapua Naturalis, Norma MRP): This series seemed to be properly estimated as it gave velocities I was expecting for this caliber. The average velocity for the starting load (72 grain) was 2900 f/s and it increased to 3120 f/s for the max load (76 grain). The best accuracy was acchied with 75 grains of powder.

Load Series IV (300 Weath Mag, Lapua Naturalis, Norma MRP):
This series seemed to be near max as it gave top velocities even with the starting load. The average velocity for the starting load (82 grain) was 3100 f/s. The velocity increased to 3280 f/s for the load just below max (85 grain). The bolt started lifting with difficulty so I did not fire my max load (86 grain).

Any thoughts or comments?

Thank you,
-Omid

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Testing 7mm Rem Mag Loads:




Testing 300 WM Loads:

Some additional observations and questions:

In my early tests (Aug. 27 and October 27th), I achieved average velocities of 2970 f/s and 2930 f/s for a certain 8.59 Titan load. Same load, loaded in new brass gave 2880 f/s on a colder day (November 26th) and did not produce the same sub-MOA group. I think this is related to temprature change more than change in brass. Am I Correct?


Also, same load as above fired 200 grain Nosler Accubond bullets at an average velocity of ~ 2780 f/s. How could the 200 gr bullet go slower than the 230 grain Naturalis bullet??

A question for the experienced members of the forum:

How sensitive are Norma MRP and 217 to temperature variations?

As mentioned above, it seems that my loads developed for summer are not optimal for winter. Is there a way to develop a load which is less sensitive to temperature? The Norma reloading manual says that it is possible to develop such a load and it will work only for the bullet/powder/rifle combination for which it was developed. The manual does not explain how to do this though.

You're going to need some non-temperature sensitive powders.

Never used MRP. But, have heard it is the same as RL 22. If true it will be highly affected by temp. swings. I stopped using RL 22 for that reason.

Hello again and Happy New Year to forum members,

I was out of shooting mindset for a few days (became a dad on December 28th!) but now I am gradually returning back to [the new] normal

To Reloader 28: I think you are right and NORMA MRP may be affected by temperature more than some other powders. This powder and Norma 217 are my main powders. I will continue experimenting with them and will post my findings here. The temperature in the Los Angeles area is cooler now (50s to 70s) but not nearly as cold as, say, Wisconsin

I am currently researching Vihtavuori N560 and I think if I decide to switch powders, N560 would be it. Any thoughts on this powder?

Congrats on the new addition, Omid. Hopefully, you banked enough sleep to last you the next 1-2 years.

Congratulations on the addition, Omid! Thanks for posting and keeping up on the thread, too.

Thank Azar and MZ5! I will start reloading again soon, maybe in a couple of weeks. This week I have a patent application to finish and next week I am attending Shot Show.

OFF TOPIC: I have developed several new concepts related to rifles copes. One of them is very close to being made commercially and will debut at the Shot Show this year. It is a riflescope that automatically changes its point of aim with zoom: At low zoom, you are zeroed at 100 yards, as you increase magnification, the scope automatically adjusts point of aim for 200Y, 300Y etc. The concept is similar to the Leathewood ART SCOPE which was developed by the late Mr Jim Leatherwood during the Vietnam war. However, my solution is optical so the complicated mechanical cam used by Leatherwood is not needed.

Hello all,

After a break, I have started back with my reloading experiments. I am now loading Naturalis bullets for a new caliber: 8X68S. I have a custom Mauser rifle in this caliber which I have not shot yet. I am mounting a scope on it and while waiting for New England Custom Gun to furnish the proper scope mounts for this rifle, I started developing a load for it:

70-75 grains of N560 powder (made by Vihta Vuori of Norway), New RWS brass, Lapua Naturalis bullets (180 grain).

In my previous loads, I used Norma MRP as my main powder but have now started experimenting with N560 as well. It is approximately the same burn rate as MRP but might lead to better results and/or less temperature sensitivity. I am going to test this powder in 300 Weatherby, 7mm Mag and 338 Mag as well.

Any suggestions or comments?

Based on the Vihtavouri 2017 reloading manual and a couple other sources, I have made the following estimates for next round of loading:

7mm Rem Mag: 55-56gr N560, 156 gr Naturalis bullet
300 Win Mag: 70-76gr N560, 170gr Naturalis bullet
300 Weatherby: 76-80gr N560, 170gr Naturalis Bullet
338 Win Mag: 69-74 gr N560, 230 gr Naturalis bullet

Has anyone used N560 powder before? I appreciate any feedback or comments before I make the above loads for testing this Saturday.

Thank you
-Omid

OK, I tested the above loads during the weekend and here are the results:

7MM Remington Magnum: Excellent group (sub-MOA) with both 61 grain and 62 grains of N560. It looks like there is still room for 1 to 2 grains more powder. It also appears that N560 has the same power and burning rate as Norma MRP.

I also tested some leftover loads from the previous experiment (loaded with Norma 217). I figured those are probably exceeding maxiumum safe loads so I stopped firing after I noticed velocities above 3050 f/s and exctraction become sticky. So, those loads (shown by green marks in the chart below) are not recommended. Next time I will reduce those loads.




Next, I tested loads in 300 Wby. The loads with 79 and 80 grains of N560 gave best groups (sub-MOA).

The loads shown using Norma MRP are from the previous experiment (in November) and are probably above safe limits. I intend to reduce them and try again. (Note: The velocity at 82 grain MRP is a measurement error. I think it was caused by direct sun light hitting the chronograph sensors.)



And finally, here are the results for 8X68S caliber. I did not get a good group with any of the loads but it was the first time ever that I was firing my 8X68S rifle. So, I don't consider this a problem. There could be issues with scope adjustment or something else..




So, what do you guys think of these results? Any comments? What should I check with the 8X68 loads or the rifle to get good accuracy?

Thank you,
-Omid

There seems to be something wrong with the links to pictures. I don't see them. Could you try again? I'd like to see your results.

I used DropBox to share photos and it looks like they have disabled the public sharing feature on March 15th! I just made an account on PhotoBucket and copied the velocity graphs there. Regrettably, my previous pictures in this thread won't be visible since they are still in DropBox.

Here are the results for 300 Wby and 7MM Mag:

Thanks for re-posting the speed-vs-charge graphs. Too bad about DropBox. Perhaps, over time, you can move the other pics over? They were great, and are really central to the thread!

Thanks MZ5 but I am not sure if I can restore the photos in previous posts. I think what is possible is to move the pictures to a new host and use them again in new post as we continue the topic.

Now, I have a few questions that I'd appreciate if you -or other members- could answer:

a) In 7MM magnum, the case is still about 20% or so empty when using Norma MRP or Vihtavuori N560 charges. I checked with reloading books and they too show max loads which fill the case to 80 or 85%. The velocity is OK and the accuracy is superb. Should I still go another 1 or 2 grain higher or stop here?

b) Here are the results for 8X68S. The velocities are OK and increase naturally but I could not get a good (1 MOA or less) group with any of them. I think there is still room for may be 1 or 2 grain more powder. Should I go higher in this caliber too?

I don't own or load for either the 7RM or the 8x68, so I can only comment very generally.

With the 7RM, my Norma manual lists charge ranges of 61 - 63 grains of MRP for their 156gr Oryx bullet, and charges of 69.7 - 73.4 for 217 under the same bullet. You're in that range, and your speeds are in the general range in my Norma manual, too. Since you're using a different bullet, one can't compare directly, but it seems like you're in the right range. Personally, I wouldn't discard excellent precision looking for another 50 - 80 ft/sec, but that's up to you.

I don't show data in my Norma manual for the 8x68S.

Sorry for the few weeks of delay.. I have now switched to my own domain server so I should be able to post pictures here without fear of losing them again.. Also, another good news: Lapua North America very kindly sent me samples Naturalis bullets to use in my load development experiments.

I will start load development shortly and will post my results here soon.

-Omid