Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Lapua Naturalis Bullets - Loads and Performance on Game

I have got a new toy (picture below) and used that to check how much my cases stretch after firing. It turns out that my new brass stretch about 0.017" inch to fit the chamber of my Sauer 202 rifle. (Blaser R8 rifle seem to have a similar chamber too, just may be 0.002" inch different from the Sauer).

As a next step I am thinking using fired brass to make loads for the Sauer 202 rifle. Is there a significant advantage (in terms of accuracy) to use brass fired in the same rifle for making loads? I did not get very tight groups (less than 1 inch) in my 300 WM rifle and I am trying to find out why. It could be that I am flinching (as usually two rounds hit nearly same spot, one goes off) but I want to make sure I have used all the options available to a hand loader to achieve maximum accuracy. Any thoughts?

Hello all,

Here are some pictures from my prairie dog hunt in Wyoming last week. These are not directly related to the topic of the tread but I thought it would be fun to share. We were testing several new optics including a rifle scope of my own design

Well, I think I found the cause of this problem last night! I was playing with this rifle looking through the scope. I had a bore-sighter attached to the muzzle and I wanted to make sure that the barrel is maintaining its orientation when I take-down/re-assemble the gun. I then noticed that the scope's rear mount had some side play. I could push the scope a bit to left and right by my hand. Looking through the boresighter I noticed that the scope's point of aim (with respect the barrel) would shift about 4 inches /100 yards anytime I push the scope's ocular sideways. We'll this loose base rear mount can explain why I didn't get tight groups during my range tests.

I re-adjusted the rear mount according to EAW instructions and bore sighted the scope again. Then, properly tightened the mount's torque screws and the play went away.

Good for you!
Sometimes those little things can be slightly embarrassing, but at the same time it's nice to find a simple thing that fixes the issue. :-)

I have started making loads for the 300 Win Mag rifles again. I have also swapped the riflescopes on a couple of my rifles. I will update this topic soon. Meanwhile, here are some pictures of the Sauer 202 for you to enjoy

thanks for sharing so much good information in these posts! I have purchased some Lapua Naturalis bullets for my Verney Carron Impact Plus 9.3x62 and will study this information closely while doing my own load development. I have another question, slightly off topic - what make & model case is that for the Sauer 202 takedown rifle? I need something similar for my Verney Carron take down rifle and i think the case for that Sauer would do nicely.

Hi CastnBlast,

Than you for your kind words. I look forward to hearing from you about loading Lapua naturalis bullets in 9.3X62 caliber. What do you plan to hunt with it? I guess it is great for moose. I used to live in Toronto and went moose hunting a couple of times (north or Thunder Bay). Verney Carron take down rifle? Must be very interesting! Please post pictures of your rifle if possible. I know Monsieur Verney Carron in person and say hi to each other when we see each other at SHOT Show. I am not familiar with their bolt-action rifles though. My case is made by Negrini: https://negrinicases.com/

I'll post more data on loading Lapua Naturalis bullets very soon..

-Omid

Yesterday, I made a fresh set of 300 Win Mag rounds for testing in Blaser R8. These rounds go from 68 grain to 74 grain of N560. The bullets are Lapua Naturalis 170 grain and they seated to COAL of 3.40". Previously, when testing in Sauer 202, I used COAL of 3.45" so these are a bit shorter.

I plan to make similar loads for Sauer 202 but using 1-time-fired brass instead of new brass. Now here is a question: I used Redding's Instant Indicator to check uniformity of my seating depths. The tool shows about +- 0.003" in variation among my loads (I loaded 21 rounds). Is this normal or shows there is some play in my press?

That's not exactly abnormal variation in seating depth. Those bullets' profiles may not match very well with the seating stem in the dies you're using. Even if it does, ogive lengths vary. For that matter, there may be some of that sort of mismatch or variation in your measuring tool (not that there is, but most people don't check that sort of thing or don't have tools or methods to do so). Runout is one thing, a couple thousandths of seating depth variation is another. I'd investigate, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this.

to report back: I loaded some Naturalis 220 grain 9.3 bullets for my 9.3x62. Used the recipe published by Lapua, in new Lapua cases, Remington 9-1/2M primers, VV N-140 powder, 60 grains. Without using proper bench rest technique, ( holding rifle in my hands with wrists on the bags) , 5 shots went into 1.5" and 2.5" higher than my 286 grain loads. Perfect. Recoil was noticeably lower than the 286's, but not quite as accurate, the 286's will shoot under an inch in my rifle - not that such tiny differences matter when hunting big game.

@ Castnblast: Excellent! I am glad to hear that you got a good hunting load in your first try. Looking forward to hearing your experience on the terminal ballistics of the bullets.



Today I had a strange experience: I have some once-fired 300 Win Mag brass from my tests with the Sauer 202 rifle. I am trying to resize them (full-length) but got confused after some tests:

• Using Redding's Instant Indicator, I measured the base-to-shoulder length of fired cases. They averaged 0.002 inch longer than the reference "standard 300 Win Mag gauge" supplied with the Indicator. This is OK according to Redding documents as the supplied gauge represents SAMI minimum chamber dimentions.
• Using same method, I measured base-to-shoulder length of some new (unfired brass). They measure 0.012 to 0.017 inch shorter than the reference gauge. This is OK too.
• Then when I full-length resized some of the fired cases, their shoulder-to-base now measures 0.004" longer than the reference!! This means not only the shoulders have not been pushed back, they have actually moved forward by about 0.002 inch! Has anybody observed such a phenomenon? I tried to look for information online but did not find much. There was one comment on a British hunting forum saying that this is normal as the brass springs back when the neck-sizer bushing inside the die pulls the case neck up on the return movement of the press.

Hmm.. I am confused. I was expecting the FL-sized cases have shoulder say 0.005 inch shorter than the standard chamber gauge (?)

I think you need to turn your die in a 1/4 turn at a time. You’ll get to the spot where you bump the shoulder slightly.

Thank you! This solved the problem! I had set the die to touch the shareholder. When I lowered the die further (slightly less than 1/4 turn) and FL-sized a case, the shoulder is bumped back to Reference - 0.004 ". I then FL-sized more cases and they are all consistent showing same base-to-shoulder length of Refrence - 0.004".

Thanks again,
-Omid

Use this tool to measure how much the shoulder is being set back on the brass fired in your rifle.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...pace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

When resizing, move the shoulder back on your fired brass 0.0015" to 0.002".

That is plenty to allow for reliable chambering and to maintain good accuracy. More than is needed is working against yourself on accuracy, potentially reducing the reliability of the firing pin making adequate contact to ignite the primer - not saying it is going to be a problem, but certainly not helping improve reliability either.

The only thing that matters is moving the shoulder back compared to your fired brass. The "standard chamber" is close to meaningless.

I was excited when they announced the gen 3 version a while back and I wanted to try them but I find it laughable that Lapua, who are certainly capable at making excellent brass, scenars, 338 lm cartridge and my personal favorite, 6.5x47 which I have a custom rifle built around, can NOT do better than 0.201 BC for a 140gr 6.5 bullet. There is just no reason to use them with ttsx, lrx, gmx, etip and even custom monometal bullets all offer vastly superior BC, cheaper cost and the same performance.

Hi kman,

I understand your point. I have not used the 6.5 milliliter version of Naturalis bullets myself since I don't have a rifle in 6.5mm caliber. These bullets are intended for hunting and Lapua seems to have focused on reliability on game more than anything else. The 6.5mm bullets looks almost like a pure cylinder so they should penetrate deep and straight. BC is not everything. Speed is not everything either. If you read my notes in the previous posts in this topic, you see that I have loaded these in my 7mm Rem Mag to about 2800 f/s. This is not the maximum that this caliber can do but it produces superb accuracy in my rifle and I saw it kill very reliably too (see pictures of the boar I shot this summer). Another thing I really like about these bullets is that the plastic tip on the nose is very hard. The bullet tip does not get damaged in the "traditional" magazines such as Mauser rifle magazines.

I tested my new loads at the range and got some very interesting results: With the Blaser R8 rifle, I got two nearly touching 3-shot groups at 71 grain and 72 grain powder charge (N560 powder). Sauer 202 also shot outstanding groups with same two charges!! I wonder if this has to do with the chambers and barrels of these two rifles being nearly identical (?) I also tested similar similar loads in my Sauer 90 rifle featuring a new Schmidt and Bender Stratos 1.5-8X42 scope. This rifle too produced a good group at 71 grain of charge! I will check to see how the fired brass sizes compare for these three rifles but so far I am very happy with the results.

Measured velocity vs powder charge for each rifle:

Two excellent 3-shot groups obtained with the Blaser R8 Rifle and loads described above:

New shooting test with Sauer 90 rifle:

Caliber 300 Win Mag, Loads S1 (70.5 grain N560) to S5 (72.4 grain N560), Laupa Naturalis Bullet (170 grain), FL-sized brass, Target at 100 Yards