Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Lapua Naturalis Bullets - Loads and Performance on Game

The crazy thing is that if you are content with 0.270 BC and the 1700fps/1000ft/lbs you get at 400 yards from your 7mm rem mag load, you could load a 7mm-08 with a 150ttsx to the same speed, less noise, recoil, powder, etc. and get 2100fps/1500ft/lbs at 400 yards.

I have a 6.5x47 Lapua I'd love to hunt with a Lapua hunting bullet but the 6.5 naturalis BC is atrocious. Muzzleloader bullets are better!

On a side note, I enjoy your 8x68S and wish dearly that I had bought the Sauer 202 barrel in 8x68S when I had the chance to do so. Foolishly I passed and have not seen one for sale since. thank

I guess they don't shoot long range there

I have such a load that shoots equally accurate in all 5 of my 308's. Yet another that shoots the same in all 3 of my 7 Wby's.

Thank you Kman, Fotis and Reloder 28 for your recent comments.

Here are some new test results from the range:


A) My Optimum .300 Win Mag load proved itself again in my Sauer 202 rifle. I was using a new Sinclair bench rest with Edgewood front and rear bags. It took me a while to be able to shoot comfortably with this new set up but at the end I got some good results. The Sauer 202 now has a new scope (Schmidt and Bender Stratos 1.5-8X42) which I sighted in to shoot about 2 inches high at 100 yards. With this setting the rifle hits 300 yard metal disks simply by aiming at the top edge of disks! This indicates that the drop is probably no more than 6 to 7 inches in agreement with the ballistic tables.










B) The above load also shoots well in my Sauer 90. But some interesting things were observed: I first got a 3 shot horizontal group (if we consider the orange sticker that represents a two-shot-one-hole group from a previous test then it is a 5 shot horizontal group). Then later I got a 3 shot vertical group! I think this has to do with two things: 1) my front rest top surface being too hard making the rifle jump while shooting, 2) I fired this rifle with the leather sling attached to it. The sling is attached to the barrel so it puts some pressure on the barrel.


I also read an article on the Sinclair website that had some helpful tips about shooting a hunting rifle from the bench rest. According to the article on Sinclar website, I did not position my rifles on the rest properly. They suggest putting the rear rest after the pistol grip so that the rifle can recoil freely backwards. If you see the picture above, I pushed my pistol grip against the rear rest so this may also have affected my group sizes and shapes.

Do you guys experience a jump too? I did not notice a muzzle jump when I used a soft leather bag as my front rest. Any other thoughts or comments on shooting a rifle off the bench rest?

Thank you,

-Omid

Hi kman,

I am happy with most of my loads that use Lapua Naturalis bullets except for one: my 8X68S load is too slow (~ 2600 f/s). My 300 WM load is great (~2900 f/s and shoots accurately in 3 rifles), my 7mm Remington Magnum and 7X64 loads are fine too (shooting at 2800 f/s and 2600 f/s, respectively).

I followed the information on Vihtavuori website and used Federal 210 primers instead of 215. Also switched to a faster burning powder (N550). The velocity I achieved is about 200 f/s less than what's predicted on Vihtavuori website despite my rifle barrel being very long (26"). I might try again with N560 later to see if I can get more velocity. It is interesting how different guns produce different velocity with same load. For example, my Sauer 90 (300 WM) produces ~100 f/s less velocity than my Sauer 202 or Blaser R8 yet it shoots equality accurately with same load!!

Omid,
This has been my experience with Vihta's published loads in different cartridges and with different powders. Last time, a mid range charge, according to their data, produced 230 fps below their estimation and a soothed case due to insuficient pressure which failed to expand the brass and seal the chamber.

Interesting! So their charge values may be inaccurate. Only a few reloading manuals cover 8X68S (e.g. Norma, Hornady and Lapua) so I have to compare their suggested charges to see where I am with the current charges. Previously I used N560 and went as high as 3000 f/s with Naturalis bullets but I could not get a tight group. This could have been related to my scope mount or the pressure point on the barrel (which I subsequently fixed). So I might repeat those loads again.

Hello All,

Last week I had a very confusing experience: I hand loaded about 20 rounds of my optimal load in 300 Winchester Magnum but this time, instead of new brass, I used once fired full-length sized brass. I fired some of these rounds in my Sauer 202 rifle and some in my Sauer 90 rifle. To my surprise, both rifles produced erratic groups with two flyers landing 3 to 4 inches away from a cluster of three shots! The velocities weren't noticeably different than the original load so I am not sure why this happened. Two potential causes that I can think of are a) barrels of both guns were thoroughly cleaned before shooting and b) inconsistent neck tension.

Could you guys please help diagnose the issue?

Thank you,
-Omid

Not a perfect example but I don’t typically use brand new brass for load work unless I run it thru the same sizer I would fired brass just for the neck tension issue you mentioned. Some folks just round out the necks and load and get different results. That’s always happened to me unless I use the same sizing I’d use for once fired stuff.

I intend to use my loads for hunting so that's why I use new brass. I don't process the new brass and so far they have been nice and consistent. I use mainly Nosler Custom and RWS brass. Both are great but I have come to prefer RWS. They are great quality and they come in 20-round paper boxes which is very convenient for keeping the loaded rounds. (The brass I use for 300 WM is Nosler Custom.)

I am still thinking of reasons why the reloaded rounds are not as good as new rounds I make (?) I have read some articles online and the most probable cause is likely neck tension. Given that it is much more time consuming to re-size and prepare a case for reloading, I think its wise to simply load new cases and forget about "reloading"

I take pretty good care of my cases, minimizing sizing enough to confidently feed and chamber in my rifles along with annealing and have no problem using a 3x fired case as I do a 1x fired. I just want the same tension on the neck each time.

Run out?

Do you check it?

DF

Here you can see the groups. The first group fired in Sauer 202 rifle (top right) shows two flyer shots. Similarly, the first group fired in Sauer 90 rifle (bottom right) also shows two flyers. The next rounds fired in each rifle were not as bad but still not satisfactory.

Regarding bullet run out. This could be a cause too but I don't have a gauge to test concentricity.

The name sounds like organic Vitalis.

I’d check mounts and the scope too..

+1

Mount a different scope, one known to be on the money.

DF

Thank you for your comments "beretzs" and "dirtfarmer".

I agree that the scopes and mounts - specially the mounts- must be checked too. The scopes are reliable (Schmidt and Bender) and the mounts are of the highest quality (EAW, worth $450 each). But I acknowledge that even with these mounts there could be issues with proper installation and some screw maybe loose or the front base - which absorbs recoil- may be slipping. I have had such issues before.

I am thinking of doing the following experiment to help further reduce the causes of the problem:

a) Make a new set of re-loaded rounds and fire them in my Blaser R8 (which I have 100% confidence in its scope and mount, it is a Zeiss rail mount)
b) Make a set of rounds using NEW BRASS and fire in Sauer 202 and Sauer 90 rifles and see if a similar effect is observed.

So, this needs another night or reloading, another trip to the range and another session of cleaning all these guns Meanwhile, I have ordered a set of Redding Type-S neck-sizing dies in 300 Win Mag to try next. Maybe I get a concentricity indicator too.

Reloading = spend all your time + spend all your money

Sounds like a good plan. I’d also take a look at the Sinclair Mandrel Set. Makes bringing the necks back to the same internal diameter pretty easy and straightening out new brass outta the box or bag.

Happy Friday!

I decided to order the QuickLoad internal ballistics software to help with developing loads. I have had it for two days now and I am still learning how to use it. I'll write more about it later.

Made 50 new rounds in caliber 300 WM for further testing. Most of the rounds are my standard load in this caliber (72 grain of N560, COAL: 3.40 inches) but some are slightly modified:

5 rounds are 0.05 inch longer
5 rounds are 0.05 inch shorter
10 rounds have Federal 210M (non-magnum) primer

I look forward to shooting these at the range soon. Meanwhile, I am also testing and examining my experimental results in QuickLoad software. It looks like the above load is one that achieves Optimal Barrel Time and that's why it shows well in three different rifles. Does any body here use Optimal Barrel Time technique in reloading?

-Omid