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what would be a good load for a 30-06 with a 200gr bullet.
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Campfire Tracker
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60 grains of H-4831 or 54.5 grains of IMR-4350.
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths.
"there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser"
"the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I need to try me some H4831. Although IMR 4350 works great I mine. Just don't get the velocities of some of the other powders.. I think gunner uses RL22 in his to get some pretty decent speeds too....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I need to try me some H4831. Although IMR 4350 works great I mine. Just don't get the velocities of some of the other powders.. I think gunner uses RL22 in his to get some pretty decent speeds too.... You bet buddy, my rifle settled in nicely just North of 60 grains for 2700 fps with the 200 gr NPT's, that is a badass load in the old '06! 
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I bought some RL22 the other day, just for such a load.... . Although, the buck and bull wouldn't have noticed a difference or have been any more dead....  . The funny thing is I went in to buy some RL26, but went home with RL22 instead.... 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Rl-17 will give very good velocities , in the 2700 ft/s range.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I bought some RL22 the other day, just for such a load.... . Although, the buck and bull wouldn't have noticed a difference or have been any more dead.... . The funny thing is I went in to buy some RL26, but went home with RL22 instead.... Uh, no, I don't believe any animal is gonna be lying there wondering if that bullet was traveling 26 or 2700 fps, nope, don't believe they'll be giving a chit! 
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Rl-17 will give very good velocities , in the 2700 ft/s range. Exactly, helped a friend work up a load for his '06 using RL-17 and the long 200 gr Accubond, IIRC, he's at 2700 fps too. 
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I bought some RL22 the other day, just for such a load.... . Although, the buck and bull wouldn't have noticed a difference or have been any more dead.... . The funny thing is I went in to buy some RL26, but went home with RL22 instead.... Uh, no, I don't believe any animal is gonna be lying there wondering if that bullet was traveling 26 or 2700 fps, nope, don't believe they'll be giving a chit! Rolling... I'm still pretty damned impressed with the 200gr. partition. There was no stopping that bad boy.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dat sombeach has a built in Vendetta!
Trump Won!
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My standard load with the 200 partition has been 59 gr of Norma MRP for the past 30 years. It runs a solid 2700 fps in my rifles.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hmmmm. Good thread just ordered some 200 Part for my WSM. Didn't occur to me to run them in my 06 - didn't think they'd make that much velocity.
Thanks!
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Check out max loads in Reload Manuals for 4831 SC, and then check out the SAAMI pressure for the 06, and look at what the manuals state their loads yield for pressure... their max loads are way below SAAMI specs....
as stated by one of Nosler's Ballistics Techs... you can't get enough 4831SC into an 06 case to exceed SAAMI specs...
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Campfire Ranger
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I wonder what RL 26 will do with 200s in the aught-six?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I wonder what RL 26 will do with 200s in the aught-six? I hear it will put a smile on your face...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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and one could ask the question, with a load like this that would do in just about everything in north america, what need is there for all the other calibers?
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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... my rifle settled in nicely just North of 60 grains for 2700 fps with the 200 gr NPT's, that is a badass load in the old '06! gunner500 and others- Twenty months ago I worked up a load for my M1885 with the 27" barrel of the 200 NPT with RL22. 58 grains produced 2725 fps and also primer leaks. 57 grains gave about 2680 fps, so I considered that max. Temps at testing were 35°F. Since the ammo and rifle were heading for Namibia, I thought maybe 57 grains was not all that conservative, and might be well above 2700 fps with temperatures of 95°F. The Problem: I was using Norma brass and Winchester WLR primers. Last year I found my lot of primers was one of the ones to be recalled, so I'm thinking of redoing the test with either replacement WLRs or something else. The primer leaks with WLRs may have been a false-positive for pressure problems. QUESTION: What primers and what make(s) of brass are you using for your loads using RL22 and 200 NPTs? Thanks. --Bob
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Campfire 'Bwana
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and one could ask the question, with a load like this that would do in just about everything in north america, what need is there for all the other calibers? That's exactly what I'm saying. Also another reason I used my ol 06 and not the 338 win mag this year for elk.... The 200gr. partition is just a sledge hammer. When guys like 458Win (Phil Shoemaker) tell us that's their favorite bullet for the 06 on big brown bears, it kind of makes you listen to what they are saying...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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... my rifle settled in nicely just North of 60 grains for 2700 fps with the 200 gr NPT's, that is a badass load in the old '06! gunner500 and others- Twenty months ago I worked up a load for my M1885 with the 27" barrel of the 200 NPT with RL22. 58 grains produced 2725 fps and also primer leaks. 57 grains gave about 2680 fps, so I considered that max. Temps at testing were 35°F. Since the ammo and rifle were heading for Namibia, I thought maybe 57 grains was not all that conservative, and might be well above 2700 fps with temperatures of 95°F. The Problem: I was using Norma brass and Winchester WLR primers. Last year I found my lot of primers was one of the ones to be recalled, so I'm thinking of redoing the test with either replacement WLRs or something else. The primer leaks with WLRs may have been a false-positive for pressure problems. QUESTION: What primers and what make(s) of brass are you using for your loads using RL22 and 200 NPTs? Thanks. --Bob I'd toss the WLR's and switch to some CCI's (200's), I believe Gunner uses magnum primers (CCI250's) with his RL22 load. The brand of brass you use is mainly personal preference and very subjective. I like R-P, while most others here like WW. I also use Norma in my 06, for those special occasions...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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My standard load with the 200 partition has been 59 gr of Norma MRP for the past 30 years. It runs a solid 2700 fps in my rifles. MRP & RL-22, while not the same powder as some think, perform virtually the same & with generally the exact same charge weights............I've used both interchangeably in several different cartridges for a very long time ranging for the 25-06 to 338 Win. Both are hard to beat........some of the new versions of the RL series are reported to be a bit better but I haven't used them yet. MM
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Another poster had a good question about primers. Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? I generally use CCI 200's with IMR4350 and they work great. What do you guys use??
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Montana Man,
I don't want to start a big argument, but I'd appreciate hearing how Reloder 22 and MRP differ. They're made in the same factory, they look exactly alike, and the same charges result in the same velocities.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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The burning rate factor (Ba) for MRP is 0.3690 for RL-22 it's 0.3860.
There is that much variance in different lots of the same powder.
So, they are the same in application.
Last edited by Axtell; 11/05/16.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Axtell,
I'm assuming you're getting the Ba rates from QuickLoad, and they don't often get enough samples of Alliant powder to get a real handle on them. As a result not only is lot variation often not accounted for, but as you noted, even when if it is, it's not to make a significant difference.
My point, however, is not what QuickLoad says, but the actual physical properties of the powder, including granule size and appearance. Plus, one higher-up at Norma admitted some of their powders (but not all) are the same as some Alliant powders made in the same factory. He said the "difference" was (he hoped) more consistency from lot to lot, perhaps accomplished through Norma's own testing, and maybe further blending than done at the original factory.
With so many obvious similarities in appearance, performance and origin, I was wondering why somebody absolutely stated that MRP and RL-22 are different powders. I'd like to know if they have proof, and if so what.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Montana Man,
I don't want to start a big argument, but I'd appreciate hearing how Reloder 22 and MRP differ. They're made in the same factory, they look exactly alike, and the same charges result in the same velocities. Well, actually I kinda think you do, maybe you are loaded for bear & perhaps you have some inside info that makes you want to discuss this......, but I'll play a long & bite Several things make me think it's not EXACTLY the same, though it does seem to perform the same. Starting with a quote from you a few years ago (I added the bold): Norma's always had problems with distribution in America.
Reloder 22 is very similar, if not exactly the same powder. Take a look at the loading data from various sources and it's similar (given the variation in components and barrels). Then buy a pound of RL-22 and compare both powders through a magnifying glass.
Here's the link to it the thread that the quote came from: What's the scoop with Norma MRP Then there is the info from Propellant Profiles not too long after RL-22 came out. Besides Hagel's comments, note the comments from the Hercules person. ![[Linked Image]](http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o56/baw0000/RL-22.jpg) Then there are my own observations: The powder granules are clearly different. MRP is smaller, more uniform & has a shinier coating on the finished powder. (Coincides with what Hagel said, but I don't think you are much of a fan of Hagel) Without magnification. ![[Linked Image]](http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o56/baw0000/5e1acfbd-f588-4fcb-ab37-303f7f76d620.jpg) Finally, there is the fact that with the same powder charge weights RL-22 takes up more space in a given case, indicating & supporting that it is larger grained & thus bulkier. Fired '06 cases, same lot, fired in same gun. 63 gr each powder ![[Linked Image]](http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o56/baw0000/170c9bb5-72b7-4d4f-a210-b85e48d85b21.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o56/baw0000/f564a0c7-a86c-404a-90d2-8804c141cc4e.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o56/baw0000/20161105_121658_001_resized.jpg) The powders may, in fact, be the same from a chemical composition standpoint, but to say that they are EXACTLY the same when clearly there are differences in appearance, would be somewhat misleading, absent some hard statement from Nobel that they are, in fact, EXACTLY the same. MM
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Campfire 'Bwana
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..... Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? I I use Fed215's in the 270 with RL22.I started doing that after watching a friends 270 go from fair grouping to very good with RL22 and the magnum primer vs a standard large rifle. I don't pretend to know exactly why but it worked in that rifle. I have used the Fed 215 with RL22 ever since and it seems to work well. I started using RL22 back after MRP started to become scarce; or at least a PITA to acquire,and when RL22 was introduced.. Norma was not always the most reliable company when it came to delivering products over here. Then Alliant brought out RL22 and some gun writers indicated the stuff was like MRP. I worked up 280 Remington loads with the new RL22 and the charges and velocities were similar to what Layne Simpson showed for the 280 with MRP. I also used Rl22 in the 270,7 Rem Mag,300 Win Mag, 300 H&H,300 WSM,7mm Dakota etc etc. Always worked well. I have no idea whether MRP and RL22 are same powder or not but some say it is. Have not used MRP in a long time and ever since then saw no need since RL22 seemed to do the same things.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Another poster had a good question about primers. Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? With both '22 & MRP.............non-magnum case = standard primer; magnum case = magnum primer. I've never had an issue. MM
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Montana Man
That Propellant Profile is a really old reference. Not arguing just saying...
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Montana Man,
Thanks, that helps clear things up.
I have nothing against Hagel, except some minor objections to some of his supposedly scientific methodology, and in fact still refer to (and recommend) GAME LOADS AND PRACTICAL BALLISTICS from time to time.
But I also wouldn't recommend relying on a now pretty old magazine article as a reference for today, and have been told, ah, "mistruths" by industry people before, especially when they're trying to make their product sound unique.
My present batches of Norma MRP and Alliant Reloder 22 are very recent. One ways to tell is that Western Powders, the company that now imports Norma powders (along with the Ramshot and Accurate powders they own the names to) gets them in bulk, and repackages them here in Montana in plastic containers like the ones for Ramshot and Accurate. This has been the case for 2-3 years now, and my MRP is some obtained from Western, and looks EXACTLY the same as my present Reloder 22, which was purchased in the last couple of years.
Not only that, but the same charges of both powders result in the same muzzle velocities in the same cartridges, loaded with bullets, powders and primers from the same containers, in the same rifles. And a a 75-grain charge of both powders fills a fired Federal .300 Winchester Magnum case to the same level.
So yeah, along with the statement from the Norma guy (which is much more recent than the statement from the Hercules guy in the article), I'd say that yes, the present Norma MRP and Reloder 22 are the same powder. But that might not be true 10 years from now.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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... my rifle settled in nicely just North of 60 grains for 2700 fps with the 200 gr NPT's, that is a badass load in the old '06! gunner500 and others- Twenty months ago I worked up a load for my M1885 with the 27" barrel of the 200 NPT with RL22. 58 grains produced 2725 fps and also primer leaks. 57 grains gave about 2680 fps, so I considered that max. Temps at testing were 35°F. Since the ammo and rifle were heading for Namibia, I thought maybe 57 grains was not all that conservative, and might be well above 2700 fps with temperatures of 95°F. The Problem: I was using Norma brass and Winchester WLR primers. Last year I found my lot of primers was one of the ones to be recalled, so I'm thinking of redoing the test with either replacement WLRs or something else. The primer leaks with WLRs may have been a false-positive for pressure problems. QUESTION: What primers and what make(s) of brass are you using for your loads using RL22 and 200 NPTs? Thanks. --Bob Thanks Bob, I use CCI-250 and WW brass in my '06 hell-bender loads, brass has lasted 4 firings so far with no signs of loose pockets or cracks.
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Another poster had a good question about primers. Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? I generally use CCI 200's with IMR4350 and they work great. What do you guys use?? Yessir, CCI-250's, have used Fed-215's with equal accuracy and velocity.
Trump Won!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Ok, sort of figured that you had an ace up your sleeve. I have some of the newly packaged MRP as well but I just took some out of one of the old metal cans of it (for the pics) that I still have so I'll look at the new stuff & see what it looks like compared to the old(er) MRP. I'll post up some new pics after I do that in the next day or two. I've always thought the performance has been the same & as I said earlier, I've used them pretty interchangeably after confirmation in a given rifle for a long time. Problem has always been until recently, getting a steady supply of the Norma stuff. I probably have enough between the 2 powders to last a very long time. MM
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yep, it's been a lot easier getting Norma powders since Western took over distribution!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Tracker
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Mr. Mule_Deer
Speaking of the 200 gr. bullet what would you estimate it's velocity if loaded in 308 NM brass and a 24 inch. barrel. Thanks for your time. Cheers NC
Last edited by northcountry; 11/05/16.
don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
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Campfire Outfitter
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Something of interest, this was some years ago............ "Winchester WXR Powder Rivals RL22 at Much Lower Cost ($13/lb)
Here’s a good deal for magnum shooters on a tight budget. If you need a quality, slow burn-rate powder suitable for large-capacity cartridges, check out Winchester WXR powder. Production of WXR has been discontinued, but quantities are still available. PrecisionReloading.com has 8-lb jugs of Winchester WXR for $104.49, which works out to just $13.06 per pound. Grafs.com has 1-lb containers of Winchester WXR for $13.99, on “close-out” pricing (limited quantities, no back-orders). Winchester WXR is a Swedish-made, double-base, slow-burning extruded propellant used in larger-size cartridges. WXR is an excellent choice for the .25-06, .270 Win, .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 7mm WSM and 300 WSM cartridges. Some industry observers have suggested that Winchester WXR is virtually the same as Alliant Reloder 22. We can’t confirm that, but the load recipes are similar. Keep in mind that, at $13.06 per pound, WXR is nearly six bucks per pound cheaper than Reloder 22 (in 5-lb containers).
The Reload Bench’s Burn Rate Comparison Chart shows WXR having a burn rate very close to Vihtavuori N165 and IMR 7828. In tests with a .25-06, WXR delivered velocities 30 to 60 fps higher than Reloder 22, with equal loads grain for grain (see WXR vs. RL22 report). In the .25-06, the WXR was slightly more energetic than Reloder 22, so a max load with WXR proved to be about 1.0 grain lower than a RL22 max load. Another WXR user writes: “I’ve been using it for the last three years in my 7 STW, 7mm Mag, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, .30-06 and .270 Win. It chronographs nearly identical to Reloder 22, so keep that in mind when working up loads with it. From what I’ve researched about it, the company in Sweden who makes powder for Norma, also makes Reloder 22 and made Win WXR. Remember powder can vary slightly from lot to lot, so start low and work your way up.” I ended up buying a boat load Win WXR for $12.00 a lb. Works great too! I also prefer 30/200's over the 180's.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I need to try me some H4831. Although IMR 4350 works great I mine. Just don't get the velocities of some of the other powders.. I think gunner uses RL22 in his to get some pretty decent speeds too.... You bet buddy, my rifle settled in nicely just North of 60 grains for 2700 fps with the 200 gr NPT's, that is a badass load in the old '06! Is that from a 22" or 24" barrel,Gunner?
Life Member SCI
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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24" barreled pre-64 Buddy.
Trump Won!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Thanks Gunner.
Last edited by elkhunternm; 11/05/16.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yo welcome Main.
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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..... Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? I I use Fed215's in the 270 with RL22.I started doing that after watching a friends 270 go from fair grouping to very good with RL22 and the magnum primer vs a standard large rifle. I don't pretend to know exactly why but it worked in that rifle. I have used the Fed 215 with RL22 ever since and it seems to work well. I started using RL22 back after MRP started to become scarce; or at least a PITA to acquire,and when RL22 was introduced.. Norma was not always the most reliable company when it came to delivering products over here. Then Alliant brought out RL22 and some gun writers indicated the stuff was like MRP. I worked up 280 Remington loads with the new RL22 and the charges and velocities were similar to what Layne Simpson showed for the 280 with MRP. I also used Rl22 in the 270,7 Rem Mag,300 Win Mag, 300 H&H,300 WSM,7mm Dakota etc etc. Always worked well. I have no idea whether MRP and RL22 are same powder or not but some say it is. Have not used MRP in a long time and ever since then saw no need since RL22 seemed to do the same things. Thanks Bob. I appreciate that info, for both the 270 with 150's and the ol 06 with 200 partitions. I'll give RL22 a try and use magnum primers too. Thanks!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Another poster had a good question about primers. Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? I generally use CCI 200's with IMR4350 and they work great. What do you guys use?? Yessir, CCI-250's, have used Fed-215's with equal accuracy and velocity. Thanks Gunner...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Another poster had a good question about primers. Are you guys using magnum primers in your RL22 loads??? With both '22 & MRP.............non-magnum case = standard primer; magnum case = magnum primer. I've never had an issue. MM That's also helpful. I'll have to definitely run some loads over the chrono and whichever shoots the best (velocity and accuracy), whether it's magnum or std rifle primer, that's the one I'll use...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You're most welcome BSA. 
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Something of interest, this was some years ago............ "Winchester WXR Powder Rivals RL22 at Much Lower Cost ($13/lb)
Here’s a good deal for magnum shooters on a tight budget. If you need a quality, slow burn-rate powder suitable for large-capacity cartridges, check out Winchester WXR powder. Production of WXR has been discontinued, but quantities are still available. PrecisionReloading.com has 8-lb jugs of Winchester WXR for $104.49, which works out to just $13.06 per pound. Grafs.com has 1-lb containers of Winchester WXR for $13.99, on “close-out” pricing (limited quantities, no back-orders). Winchester WXR is a Swedish-made, double-base, slow-burning extruded propellant used in larger-size cartridges. WXR is an excellent choice for the .25-06, .270 Win, .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag, 7mm WSM and 300 WSM cartridges. Some industry observers have suggested that Winchester WXR is virtually the same as Alliant Reloder 22. We can’t confirm that, but the load recipes are similar. Keep in mind that, at $13.06 per pound, WXR is nearly six bucks per pound cheaper than Reloder 22 (in 5-lb containers).
The Reload Bench’s Burn Rate Comparison Chart shows WXR having a burn rate very close to Vihtavuori N165 and IMR 7828. In tests with a .25-06, WXR delivered velocities 30 to 60 fps higher than Reloder 22, with equal loads grain for grain (see WXR vs. RL22 report). In the .25-06, the WXR was slightly more energetic than Reloder 22, so a max load with WXR proved to be about 1.0 grain lower than a RL22 max load. Another WXR user writes: “I’ve been using it for the last three years in my 7 STW, 7mm Mag, 300 WSM, 300 Win Mag, .30-06 and .270 Win. It chronographs nearly identical to Reloder 22, so keep that in mind when working up loads with it. From what I’ve researched about it, the company in Sweden who makes powder for Norma, also makes Reloder 22 and made Win WXR. Remember powder can vary slightly from lot to lot, so start low and work your way up.” I ended up buying a boat load Win WXR for $12.00 a lb. Works great too! I also prefer 30/200's over the 180's. I wonder how temp sensitive that powder is vs. RL22???? I could only dream of buying powder for $13.00/pound...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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I wonder how temp sensitive that powder is vs. RL22???? When does Temp sensitivity really come into play? Or matters? When it comes to a particular distance you are shooting in the field hunting big game? Out to 400 or maybe 500 yards. I doubt it. I guess if I lived in Montana and developed a load in the summer and used it in the winter. But would it make that much difference in the field?
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Campfire Tracker
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Ive always used RL19 and while I dont get the velocities others here get, accuracy has always been stellar is several rifles.
Stuck in airports, Terrorized
Sent to meetings, Hypnotized
Over-exposed, Commercialized
Handle me with Care...
-Traveling Wilbury's
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I wonder how temp sensitive that powder is vs. RL22???? When does Temp sensitivity really come into play? Or matters? When it comes to a particular distance you are shooting in the field hunting big game? Out to 400 or maybe 500 yards. I doubt it. I guess if I lived in Montana and developed a load in the summer and used it in the winter. But would it make that much difference in the field? Sorry, but everything makes a difference in "the field". At least it does to me. I want to be certain I'm going to put that bullet exactly where I want it. I owe that much to the animal I'm putting down. One of the reasons I work up loads in the fall/winter is because I hunt in the fall and winter... I'll also shoot in the summer and have noticed a shift in POI even at 100 yards. If you are seeing a shift at 100, you are going to see and even bigger shift at 5-600 yards. When you are shooting in "field" positions or at extended ranges, you need all the help you can get and don't need to be guessing or second guessing for that matter... Just my take on things.. Furthermore, I've noticed anomalies such as hangfires in extreme cold temps. If you develop your loads in the summer (as you say) and hunt in the winter, you are taking a risk by doing so. Why not work up a load in the fall or winter????
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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You don't have to be sorry.
The loads I hunt in the fall I work up in the fall.
How much of a shift are you REALLY seeing at 100 yds?
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I have a question for y'all. I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles. I spent about the first 20 years of my deer hunting shooting 180 grainers at whitetails and thought they were the shizz. I switched to 165's and 150's only in my last 15 years. My question why 200's?
What are you hunting and how? What does 200 grains buy you?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Think moose, elk, grizzly where you hunt.
Not many expanding bullets penetrate with a 200 gr Nolser Partition.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Thanks Bob, I use CCI-250 and WW brass in my '06 hell-bender loads, brass has lasted 4 firings so far with no signs of loose pockets or cracks. Gunner- Thanks for the quick and helpful reply. I bought a brick of the CCI-250s last month, and will use them in another trial. I checked weights on some 30-06 Winchester and Norma brass I've got on hand. The Winchester was about 8-9 grains heavier on average. --Bob
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Axtell,
I'm assuming you're getting the Ba rates from QuickLoad, and they don't often get enough samples of Alliant powder to get a real handle on them. As a result not only is lot variation often not accounted for, but as you noted, even when if it is, it's not to make a significant difference.
My point, however, is not what QuickLoad says, but the actual physical properties of the powder, including granule size and appearance. Plus, one higher-up at Norma admitted some of their powders (but not all) are the same as some Alliant powders made in the same factory. He said the "difference" was (he hoped) more consistency from lot to lot, perhaps accomplished through Norma's own testing, and maybe further blending than done at the original factory.
With so many obvious similarities in appearance, performance and origin, I was wondering why somebody absolutely stated that MRP and RL-22 are different powders. I'd like to know if they have proof, and if so what.
The physical properties appear to be the same....weight per kernal etc. For all intents the powders are the same but Branded differently. The burn rates for powder (QL) is a reference number to differentiate one powder from the other and better yet one lot of the same powder from an other. In the QL calculation you may sometimes assign a burn rate to the powder for the program to work, usually close as listed though. Powder burns at different rates according to the pressure.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Gee, I never knew any of that. Thanks for filling me in.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Figured you knew, but not everyone else.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I figured that out after making my dumb post. :-)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I have a question for y'all. I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles. I spent about the first 20 years of my deer hunting shooting 180 grainers at whitetails and thought they were the shizz. I switched to 165's and 150's only in my last 15 years. My question why 200's?
What are you hunting and how? What does 200 grains buy you? As mentioned some of us live in areas where bigger creatures are plentiful. I'm sure one could do fine with lighter bullets, but I don't really see a downside to 200gr Partitions when the main focus is moose and/or elk. Pretty much everywhere I hunt has opportunities for those guys and even when I am out hunting for deer I can bump into a moose or elk. There are also lots of grizzlies around, especially in really good moose and elk areas, so it is comforting to have a heavier bullet ready to go.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have a question for y'all. I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles. I spent about the first 20 years of my deer hunting shooting 180 grainers at whitetails and thought they were the shizz. I switched to 165's and 150's only in my last 15 years. My question why 200's?
What are you hunting and how? What does 200 grains buy you? My reason is I have too many damn hunting rifles, I build one load [save solids for big bores] for each rifle that will work for ANYTHING a man may point that cartridge at, in this case, the '06, a 200 gr Partition will kill elk and small deer with the same level of familiar efficiency. Too many loads, too many zero hold points to remember, one gun, one load.
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks Bob, I use CCI-250 and WW brass in my '06 hell-bender loads, brass has lasted 4 firings so far with no signs of loose pockets or cracks. Gunner- Thanks for the quick and helpful reply. I bought a brick of the CCI-250s last month, and will use them in another trial. I checked weights on some 30-06 Winchester and Norma brass I've got on hand. The Winchester was about 8-9 grains heavier on average. --Bob 10-4 Bob, if the WW cases are that much heavier, of course their internal capacities will be smaller, may raise your pressures [velocities] a little.
Trump Won!
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A question for the 06 users of 200 gr NPT - can you get 2700 with other powders than Re 22 with 24" barrels? Looking at the load data, and even assuming most are less than 60k psi, I don't see many loads breaking 2600. I'm ok with running max+ loads for the 06 but don't want to redline it.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yes, my NULA's 24" barrel gets 2700 using Hodgdon's published maximum load of H4831SC, with excellent accuracy.
I can also personally attest the 200 Partition works fine on Montana big game from pronghorn to elk.
Last edited by Mule Deer; 11/06/16.
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Campfire Ranger
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I wonder what RL 26 will do with 200s in the aught-six? Buddies are using 26 and 200 ABs. One 20" suppressed and one 22" rifle. The 20 is getting right at 2700 and the 22" is in the mid 2700's. both of them are very accurate with the combo.
Semper Fi
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My old push feed M.70 Featherweight with 22" barrel gets 2730 fps with 60.5 grs. H-4831, 200 Sierra GK.
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths.
"there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser"
"the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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With Partitions I get 2700 with 59.0 grains from the 24" barrel.
Many years ago used to load up to 61 grains of H4831 (probably the made-in-Scotland version, the transition powder between the mil-surp and present Australian-made H4831 Extreme) in a 22" barreled Ruger 77 to get 2700. But that was in Winchester cases. Remingtons were heavier and only required 59 grains.
The Hodgdon top charge for 200's these days is 59.0 with AccuBonds, but that's at the long-time SAAMI maximum average pressure, which isn't very warm. Am sure I could add another grain, or maybe two, of H4831SC to the load for my NULA, but so far haven't bothered. 60 grains would get around 2750 and 61 2800.
Actually 2800 should be be reachable at 65,000 PSI in a 24" barrel with several modern powders.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Thanks guys. Didn't think it was possible but glad I asked here.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Tag for later
Thanks for all the info. Considering a 200 NP as an elk load next year
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Has anyone tried R26 for the 200 grain load? I can't find any reference to R26 in the 30-06 at all but it could be a good match since it does so well in other 06 cases with heavy bullets.
Should at least equal R22 and 4831 or possibly exceed it in velocity.
RE: R22 & MRP
They well may be the same powder now. But what I gathered from internet lore and gun nut ramblings was they both started out with the same formula but got different coatings. One source claimed that R22 was a Bulk powder with up to +/-20% variation and MRP was a canister grade powder with +/- 10% variation. This could explain the kernel size variation of the older lots MRP was more carefully screened. No idea if this is fact or legend but sounds reasonable. MRP did seem more uniform lot to lot and less temperature sensitive than R22 but maybe not anymore.
Last edited by Tejano; 11/08/16.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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I have a question for y'all. I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles. I spent about the first 20 years of my deer hunting shooting 180 grainers at whitetails and thought they were the shizz. I switched to 165's and 150's only in my last 15 years. My question why 200's?
What are you hunting and how? What does 200 grains buy you? I admit part of my exclusive use of 200 NPTs is I just like them. But I also want one bullet to hunt anything with in one rifle. I want a bullet that will work under almost all conditions. And I want a bullet that will kill from most any sane angle. I have no desire to experiment or change loads based on what I'm hunting. There are other loads that will do this, but I could pick up my rifle and my 200 NPTs and hunt most of the World, without dinking around with loads and sighting in. I'm not hunting the World anytime soon, but it applies to anything in Wyoming too. What would be the downside to using 200 NPTs?
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Campfire Kahuna
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I started using 200-grain Partitions in the .30-06 during the late 1970's. At the time I was doing a lot of my elk hunting in the thick, steep woods of northwestern Montana near the Idaho Panhandle, and shots were rarely much more than 100 yards. I had a .30-06 and wanted to make sure the bullet would penetrate sufficiently at almost any angle. At the time Partitions were basically the only controlled-expansion bullet available, though some guy in Idaho was also making a few bonded bullets he called "Bitterroots." I soon discovered 200 Partitions penetrated plenty, and also expanded easily on any deer I encountered without ruining much meat at all, even on very close shots.
A couple years later I bought a chronograph and started trying 200 Partitions at longer ranges. Back then "longer ranges" weren't 500+ yards, but out to 400, and I discovered the 200's shot just as flat as 180's. A year or two later I started experimenting with using a plex-scope reticle to judge distance, and as a longer-range aiming point. I started using the 200's in more open country, and found they expanded fine. Even shot a pronghorn with one, and found it killed the antelope pretty dead, pretty soon--and as on short-range deer, the bullet didn't shoot up much meat at all.
These days there are a lot of controlled-expansion bullets, but 200 Partitions shoot really well in my NULA .30-06, and on the ridge where I do most local elk hunting it's rare to find a place to even see past 300 yards. Just in case, however, I've also shot the 200 Partition load well past 300 at our local range, and can consistently hit hit a 6-inch gong at 450 yards from prone with a forend rest.
In fact I was just doing it this morning to make sure the rifle was properly zeroed, because I plan to head up there right now and see if I can find a legal elk (antlerless or brow-tined), a big mule deer buck or, closer to the creek bottom, a whitetail doe. I have tags for all three, and know from past experience the 200 Partition works well on all three.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What would be the downside to using 200 NPTs?
There isn't one I can think of.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What would be the downside to using 200 NPTs?
They kick more than 180's, which coincidentally, kick more than 165's. Etc.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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I shoot and have killed plenty of elk with 200's in both ought-six and 300 mags.
I like them for the above stated reasons.
I also find not a whole lot of difference between the Partition and the Sierra Gameking.
200's may have a little more push off the bench, but they sure don't in the field.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I'm not as recoil-tolerant as when younger, but didn't really notice the recoil of my 6-pound NULA with 200's during this morning's range session--which also included a 6-3/4 pound Tikka T3 Lite in .260 with 140's at 2650. Both worked equally well on gongs out to the same ranges.
One reason I've started using 200 Partitions in my NULA more for local hunting recently is an increase in grizzlies, including several sightings within a less than 10 miles (which is nothing to a grizzly) from where we do most elk hunting. I'm not grizzly-paranoid, having spent plenty of time around them for over 50 years, not just in Montana but Alaska (where I've hunted them twice, taking one) and several Canadian provinces and territories. But they weren't anywhere around here when we started hunting that area 26 years ago, and are now.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I shoot and have killed plenty of elk with 200's in both ought-six and 300 mags.
I like them for the above stated reasons.
I also find not a whole lot of difference between the Partition and the Sierra Gameking.
200's may have a little more push off the bench, but they sure don't in the field.
You do realize the Nosler fanboys and Sierra haters are going to pout all over you for that statement....
Mathew 22: 37-39
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I also find not a whole lot of difference between the Partition and the Sierra Gameking. Terminal performance, or trajectory? What are your observations of the Sierra 200's penetration and meat damage when hitting bone?
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Originally Posted By SU35
I shoot and have killed plenty of elk with 200's in both ought-six and 300 mags.
I like them for the above stated reasons.
I also find not a whole lot of difference between the Partition and the Sierra Gameking.
200's may have a little more push off the bench, but they sure don't in the field.
You do realize the Nosler fanboys and Sierra haters are going to pout all over you for that statement.... I'm a total Nosler slut and probably have more 30/200 NP's on my shelf than SGK's. but, the reality is, heavy for caliber Sierras do very well. If I had a trophy elk hunt next week I wouldn't shy away from using them, SGK's. They are a whole lot cheaper to shoot and practice with unless you can score on some Nosler 2nds or overruns
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Campfire Ranger
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Always felt the JOC 160 and ) 30cal 200s were underappreciated and used.
How do they compare downrange? The JOC still a "Semi-Point?"
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Campfire Ranger
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I started using 200-grain Partitions in the .30-06 during the late 1970's. At the time I was doing a lot of my elk hunting in the thick, steep woods of northwestern Montana near the Idaho Panhandle, and shots were rarely much more than 100 yards. I had a .30-06 and wanted to make sure the bullet would penetrate sufficiently at almost any angle. At the time Partitions were basically the only controlled-expansion bullet available, though some guy in Idaho was also making a few bonded bullets he called "Bitterroots." I soon discovered 200 Partitions penetrated plenty, and also expanded easily on any deer I encountered without ruining much meat at all, even on very close shots.
A couple years later I bought a chronograph and started trying 200 Partitions at longer ranges. Back then "longer ranges" weren't 500+ yards, but out to 400, and I discovered the 200's shot just as flat as 180's. A year or two later I started experimenting with using a plex-scope reticle to judge distance, and as a longer-range aiming point. I started using the 200's in more open country, and found they expanded fine. Even shot a pronghorn with one, and found it killed the antelope pretty dead, pretty soon--and as on short-range deer, the bullet didn't shoot up much meat at all.
These days there are a lot of controlled-expansion bullets, but 200 Partitions shoot really well in my NULA .30-06, and on the ridge where I do most local elk hunting it's rare to find a place to even see past 300 yards. Just in case, however, I've also shot the 200 Partition load well past 300 at our local range, and can consistently hit hit a 6-inch gong at 450 yards from prone with a forend rest.
In fact I was just doing it this morning to make sure the rifle was properly zeroed, because I plan to head up there right now and see if I can find a legal elk (antlerless or brow-tined), a big mule deer buck or, closer to the creek bottom, a whitetail doe. I have tags for all three, and know from past experience the 200 Partition works well on all three. That's as good a synopsis of the usefulness & flexibility of the '06 & a 200 grain load as I could have written myself. MM
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Campfire Oracle
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Originally Posted By SU35
I shoot and have killed plenty of elk with 200's in both ought-six and 300 mags.
I like them for the above stated reasons.
I also find not a whole lot of difference between the Partition and the Sierra Gameking.
200's may have a little more push off the bench, but they sure don't in the field.
You do realize the Nosler fanboys and Sierra haters are going to pout all over you for that statement.... I'm a total Nosler slut and probably have more 30/200 NP's on my shelf than SGK's. but, the reality is, heavy for caliber Sierras do very well. If I had a trophy elk hunt next week I wouldn't shy away from using them, SGK's. They are a whole lot cheaper to shoot and practice with unless you can score on some Nosler 2nds or overruns Been tossing the idea of trying the .30 cal 200 gr SGK's in my .30/06.
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Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Wow, what a great thread! A lot of good information and experience being discussed and written AND about a great topic too. Feels like an old school 24hr campfire thread from back in the day when we all got along for the most part. 200 gn Partitions are great! Carry on gents
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Picked up some Hornady 30 cal 225 grain BTHP this evening...
and have 4 pounds of that elusive RL 26...
going to try out that combo with some experimenting for velocity and accuracy...
and then compare that with my 4831 SC loads for the 220 grainer RN...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What would be the downside to using 200 NPTs?
They kick more than 180's, which coincidentally, kick more than 165's. Etc. This isn't a 308 Winchester thread. Move along... 
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I started using 200-grain Partitions in the .30-06 during the late 1970's. At the time I was doing a lot of my elk hunting in the thick, steep woods of northwestern Montana near the Idaho Panhandle, and shots were rarely much more than 100 yards. I had a .30-06 and wanted to make sure the bullet would penetrate sufficiently at almost any angle. At the time Partitions were basically the only controlled-expansion bullet available, though some guy in Idaho was also making a few bonded bullets he called "Bitterroots." I soon discovered 200 Partitions penetrated plenty, and also expanded easily on any deer I encountered without ruining much meat at all, even on very close shots.
A couple years later I bought a chronograph and started trying 200 Partitions at longer ranges. Back then "longer ranges" weren't 500+ yards, but out to 400, and I discovered the 200's shot just as flat as 180's. A year or two later I started experimenting with using a plex-scope reticle to judge distance, and as a longer-range aiming point. I started using the 200's in more open country, and found they expanded fine. Even shot a pronghorn with one, and found it killed the antelope pretty dead, pretty soon--and as on short-range deer, the bullet didn't shoot up much meat at all.
These days there are a lot of controlled-expansion bullets, but 200 Partitions shoot really well in my NULA .30-06, and on the ridge where I do most local elk hunting it's rare to find a place to even see past 300 yards. Just in case, however, I've also shot the 200 Partition load well past 300 at our local range, and can consistently hit hit a 6-inch gong at 450 yards from prone with a forend rest.
In fact I was just doing it this morning to make sure the rifle was properly zeroed, because I plan to head up there right now and see if I can find a legal elk (antlerless or brow-tined), a big mule deer buck or, closer to the creek bottom, a whitetail doe. I have tags for all three, and know from past experience the 200 Partition works well on all three. Excellent post..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/b6/d8/98b6d863a5f722b551cd8e1440bd2bd4.jpg) Z
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Has anyone tried 7828?
Hodgdon lists a loading for it on their website. Says 58gr compressed for 2559 fps. 2586 for the H4831 load.
My initial guess would be 7828 is too slow to fit enough in the case for mad velocity but I'd like to hear from someone who has tried it.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Check out max loads in Reload Manuals for 4831 SC, and then check out the SAAMI pressure for the 06, and look at what the manuals state their loads yield for pressure... their max loads are way below SAAMI specs....
as stated by one of Nosler's Ballistics Techs... you can't get enough 4831SC into an 06 case to exceed SAAMI specs... Well if you fill the 30-06 case with 58gr of H4831 and cram a 200gr sierra SPBT in it to a standard OAL then lee crimp it tight, using a CCI250. You get around 2635fps in a 24" and it sure feels like a max pressure load.
The anti American Constitutional party (Democrat). Wants to dismantle your rights, limiting every aspect of your constitutional rights. Death by 1000 cuts is the tactic. Each cut bleeds constitutional rights to control you. Control is the goal.
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.....
With so many obvious similarities in appearance, performance and origin, I was wondering why somebody absolutely stated that MRP and RL-22 are different powders. I'd like to know if they have proof, and if so what.
Sorry to bring this up again - I was browsing the forum confirming the "famous" 59.0gr MRP w/200gr Partition load as I am about to start throwing powder. I cross checked with Nosler's data and interestingly found: 190gr RL22 - 60.0gr max - 2712 fps MRP - 58.5gr max - 2769 fps 210gr RL22 - 57.5gr max - 2646 fps MRP - 59.0gr max -2640 fps Seems off that the max charge of RL22 is higher than MRP with 190gr but lower with 210gr. How is that possible? But, they do show different charges and different results.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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.....
With so many obvious similarities in appearance, performance and origin, I was wondering why somebody absolutely stated that MRP and RL-22 are different powders. I'd like to know if they have proof, and if so what.
Sorry to bring this up again - I was browsing the forum confirming the "famous" 59.0gr MRP w/200gr Partition load as I am about to start throwing powder. I cross checked with Nosler's data and interestingly found: 190gr RL22 - 60.0gr max - 2712 fps MRP - 58.5gr max - 2769 fps 210gr RL22 - 57.5gr max - 2646 fps MRP - 59.0gr max -2640 fps Seems off that the max charge of RL22 is higher than MRP with 190gr but lower with 210gr. How is that possible? But, they do show different charges and different results. Possible? different powder lots. RL-22 and MRP ARE THE SAME/
Last edited by jorgeI; 07/27/17.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Arac,
Most data for H414 and Win. 760, except Hodgdon's, shows slightly different results, but they're the same powder too.
All powders vary a little from lot-to-lot, and pressure-test results can vary a little from day-to-day as well. Such variations don't mean the powders are different.
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John Steinbeck
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Thanks MD
So the 59.0gr MRP load with Lapua brass, BR-2 primers and 200gr Partition gave 2610fps out of a 22" barreled SS 700 BDL, as measured by a 35P. More importantly I was able to shoot .75" 3 shot groups at 100 yards and 2.5" 3 shot groups at 300 yards.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Sounds like that will kill something!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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i used to hog hunt with 200gr & 220gr rem fac loads in a 742 rem 06 slip hunten. you could sit down an let hogs line up an shot throught as many as 4 with 1 shot
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I was perfectly content with using 165's in my .30-06 until I got the idea to take it to Alaska for a grizzly hunt.
Decided to try some 200 gr Partitions. Had a fair bit of H4350 on hand, and had happily loaded 165's & 180's with that powder. Worked up to 53 grains of H4350, getting just over 2600 fps via the 24" Remington barrel.
Accuracy and mild recoil, and I found that even at 2600 fps, I had no problems making hits at 300 yards. Didn't plan on shooting any farther. I was plopping those 200's into 2.5" groups at 300 yards from prone, just resting the rifle on my hunting pack... The recoil actually felt good - not harsh at all... Asked my outfitter what he thought about the 200 grain Partition and he was pretty excited to hear it was shooting so well.
Went to Alaska and took a nice size Arctic Grizzly as well as a wolf. That 200 gr .30 cal Partition is one heck of a bullet. I've still got some loaded from my Alaska trip last spring, and might just use them on everything, they shoot so nicely.
Regards, Guy
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What feedback/experience/results/performance can people provide on the 30-06 using the plain jane 200 grain Speer Hot Cor flat base spitzer: elk, bears, deer?
Thanks
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
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Don't forget the excellent 200gr Speer spitzer. Stuff the case with 54gr or 55gr of IMR 4350 and it will take about anything down.
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Has anyone tried R26 for the 200 grain load? I can't find any reference to R26 in the 30-06 at all but it could be a good match since it does so well in other 06 cases with heavy bullets. I tried 60 grains of R26 in two rifles. SAKO Finnlight wiith a 20 3/8" barrel and 215 primer - 2615 fps. Thompson Center Dimension with a 22" barrel and 210 primer - 2680 fps. Had a lower extreme spread with the 215 but not by much. Sub-MOA groups from both rifles. Cheers, Walt
One unerring mark of the love of the truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. John Locke, 1690
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Campfire Kahuna
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Speer's new No. 15 manual lists 57.8 grains of RL-26 as getting 2667 fps from a 24" barrel with the Hot-Cor 200-grain spitzer--which in general I have found gets just about the same velocity, with the same loads, as the 200 Partition.
Of course, test barrels are often a little tighter, both in bore and chamber throat, than factory barrels. And handloaders don't always load bullets to the same OAL, which also affects pressures and hence velocities.
Speer does not list the specific case, but for that load used the Federal 210 primer.
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John Steinbeck
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I load 62 gr/RL26, R-P brass, Fed 210M with the 200 gr Partition for 2730 fps. I can detect no excess pressure and it is very accurate in my “custom” 30-06 with FN Mauser barreled action, 24” barrel.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I load 62 gr/RL26, R-P brass, Fed 210M with the 200 gr Partition for 2730 fps. I can detect no excess pressure and it is very accurate in my “custom” 30-06 with FN Mauser barreled action, 24” barrel. Thats cooking along. Theres not a lot you wouldnt be able to put down with that load. For the guys mentioning the speers, good luck and a little helpful advice. Dont weigh those mo fo's. You might be in for an unpleasant surprise. As for the guy that shot a "sub moa" group with them. Pure luck, even if it was 1 lucky 3 shot group.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Speer's new No. 15 manual lists 57.8 grains of RL-26 as getting 2667 fps from a 24" barrel with the Hot-Cor 200-grain spitzer--which in general I have found gets just about the same velocity, with the same loads, as the 200 Partition.
Of course, test barrels are often a little tighter, both in bore and chamber throat, than factory barrels. And handloaders don't always load bullets to the same OAL, which also affects pressures and hence velocities.
Speer does not list the specific case, but for that load used the Federal 210 primer. The only HotCor I have worked with extensively is the 250 grain .358. My experience has been parallel to yours regarding the 200 grain .308s - I find the Speer 250 HotCor to be a perfect surrogate for the Nosler 250 Partition. The same charge gives the same velocity and the same POI, and very similar accuracy. That's very useful for working up loads. I load 62 gr/RL26, R-P brass, Fed 210M with the 200 gr Partition for 2730 fps. I can detect no excess pressure and it is very accurate in my “custom” 30-06 with FN Mauser barreled action, 24” barrel. Thats cooking along. Theres not a lot you wouldnt be able to put down with that load. For the guys mentioning the speers, good luck and a little helpful advice. Dont weigh those mo fo's. You might be in for an unpleasant surprise. As for the guy that shot a "sub moa" group with them. Pure luck, even if it was 1 lucky 3 shot group. Can't speak to the 200 HotCor, but the .358 250gr shoots consistent sub MOA in my Whelen. Cheers, Rex
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Campfire Outfitter
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I load 62 gr/RL26, R-P brass, Fed 210M with the 200 gr Partition for 2730 fps. I can detect no excess pressure and it is very accurate in my “custom” 30-06 with FN Mauser barreled action, 24” barrel. Thats cooking along. Theres not a lot you wouldnt be able to put down with that load. For the guys mentioning the speers, good luck and a little helpful advice. Dont weigh those mo fo's. You might be in for an unpleasant surprise. As for the guy that shot a "sub moa" group with them. Pure luck, even if it was 1 lucky 3 shot group. That's funny. I run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Cores in four different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, a Winchester M70 and three Ruger #1s, two "S" models and a "B" model. The worst of the bunch is one of the "S" model #1s and it's still 3/4" groups on average. The "B" model is usually good for a half inch or less as is the other "S" models. I've never had a problem getting accurate loads with the Speer bullets I've used. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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Tried to reach close to 2700 FPS in several 06,s with RL 19, RL 22 and H 4831 most topped out around 2600 FPS. Quite a bit of testing, had no problem exceeding 2700 FPS in same rifles with RL 17 and RL 26 all with 200 GR Nosler Part and Nosler Accubond. 22" Barrel,s.
kk alaska
Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
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Axtell,
I'm assuming you're getting the Ba rates from QuickLoad, and they don't often get enough samples of Alliant powder to get a real handle on them. As a result not only is lot variation often not accounted for, but as you noted, even when if it is, it's not to make a significant difference.
My point, however, is not what QuickLoad says, but the actual physical properties of the powder, including granule size and appearance. Plus, one higher-up at Norma admitted some of their powders (but not all) are the same as some Alliant powders made in the same factory. He said the "difference" was (he hoped) more consistency from lot to lot, perhaps accomplished through Norma's own testing, and maybe further blending than done at the original factory.
With so many obvious similarities in appearance, performance and origin, I was wondering why somebody absolutely stated that MRP and RL-22 are different powders. I'd like to know if they have proof, and if so what.
The physical properties appear to be the same....weight per kernal etc. For all intents the powders are the same but Branded differently. The burn rates for powder (QL) is a reference number to differentiate one powder from the other and better yet one lot of the same powder from an other. In the QL calculation you may sometimes assign a burn rate to the powder for the program to work, usually close as listed though. Powder burns at different rates according to the pressure. FWIW I spent an afternoon at Western Powders and spoke to the ballistition - They distribute MRP (or at least did then) and told me that RL22 is MRP that did not meet QC for Norma- I have used them interchangeably ever since.
Last edited by tcp; 05/12/20.
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I tried several 200gn Bullets in my .30/06 Featherweight. These were my maximum loads........
200gn Speer
55gn of AR 2209 for 2737fps (Which is today, H 4350 so please note that the burn rate was slowed for the US Market) Old AR 2209 is not the equal in burning rate to that of modern H 4350 even though they are the same powder.
53gn of IMR 4350 generated 2620fps
200gn Barnes TTSX
62gn of Rel 26 for 2724fps. This load shoots slightly under .5" so is a favored load and the discontinued bullets are savored for need.
200gn Accubond
62gn of Rel 26 was cramped in the Winchester cases with this long bullet but chronographed at 2633fps.
59gn of H 4350 achieved 2650fps and best accuracy of MOA.
57gn of Rel 17 had a velocity of 2752fps with an E of 13 but accuracy of 1.5"
61gn of Rel 22 generated 2785fps and was too fast for my comfort level but it only had an E of 4fps so was very consistent.
200gn Barnes X (The Original X)
54gn of AR 2209 for 2694fps. This load was used on 600 pound Sambar, 1 and done.
200gn Nosler Partition
57gn 760 for 2733fps and MOA groups
59gn H 4350 for 2650fps but not accurate enough in my rifle
62gn of Rel 26 for 2696fps and MOA grouping
H 4831sc was a flop with 62.5gn only wandering along at 2559fps.
All loads over a Oehler 35P @ 15 feet and using Federal 210's except for the Accubond Rel 17 loads which used WLR.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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58.5 of 4831SC under a 200 Sierra MK gave me 2730 fps from my 26 inch, 12 twist, barrel. GD
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58.5 of 4831SC under a 200 Sierra MK gave me 2730 fps from my 26 inch, 12 twist, barrel. GD Impressive. Thanks for noting the barrel length and twist. Accuracy was good with the 1:12 twist and those long-heavy bullets? Guy
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Campfire Kahuna
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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That's funny. I run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Cores in four different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, a Winchester M70 and three Ruger #1s, two "S" models and a "B" model. The worst of the bunch is one of the "S" model #1s and it's still 3/4" groups on average. The "B" model is usually good for a half inch or less as is the other "S" models. I've never had a problem getting accurate loads with the Speer bullets I've used.
Paul B. How about the terminal performance of that 200 gr Speer Hot Cor? Any reports of tough (on the bullet) shots at short range?
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This is a question based in curiousity and ignorance: Why?
I've been a 30-06 fanboy for all my life. 30-06 is far and away my favorite. I spent the first 20 years of my deer hunting career lobbing 180 grainers. The latter 20, I've shot mostly 165 grain. I just received a lifetime supply of 150 grainers for free.
I see folks speaking glowingly of 200-grain loads, but I have yet to figure out why. What makes 200 grain preferable? Why do y'all like it?
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That's funny. I run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Cores in four different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, a Winchester M70 and three Ruger #1s, two "S" models and a "B" model. The worst of the bunch is one of the "S" model #1s and it's still 3/4" groups on average. The "B" model is usually good for a half inch or less as is the other "S" models. I've never had a problem getting accurate loads with the Speer bullets I've used.
Paul B. How about the terminal performance of that 200 gr Speer Hot Cor? Any reports of tough (on the bullet) shots at short range? I know this is apples and oranges, but the .338 200 grn Speer is one of my favorites out of my .338-06. Never had anything other than stellar results.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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This is a question based in curiousity and ignorance: Why?
I've been a 30-06 fanboy for all my life. 30-06 is far and away my favorite. I spent the first 20 years of my deer hunting career lobbing 180 grainers. The latter 20, I've shot mostly 165 grain. I just received a lifetime supply of 150 grainers for free.
I see folks speaking glowingly of 200-grain loads, but I have yet to figure out why. What makes 200 grain preferable? Why do y'all like it? Shaman, I started using the 200 Partition in the .30-06 in the 1970s, during the last couple years Nosler was still lathe-turning them, and the 200 was a "semi-spitzer" (roundnose). I used it back then because of doing all my elk hunting in a couple timbered areas where 100 yards was a long shot, and after a bad experience with lack of penetration from another bullet switched to the Nosler 200. Loaded it to around 2600 fps from the 1903 Springfield sporter I had back them, and got groups around an inch at 100, which seemed more than sufficient. (Have been puzzled ever since byt those who have difficulty getting Partitions to shoot "decently," as even those lathe-turned bullets did fine in the limited use I made of them back, including the 130s used in another rifle, a Remington 700 .270. The impact-extruded bullets that followed have tended to be more accurate.) Anyway, was very impressed with both the way the 200 penetrated and killed, and the lack of meat damage. Both areas also had whitetail and mule deer, and often doe tags were available. It was nice to be able to shoot a 100-pound whitetail doe at close range and not lose 10 pounds of meat. I switched to the impact-extruded 200-grain spitzers as soon as they became available. By then I'd gotten rid of the 9-pound 1903 and replaced it with a tang-safety Ruger 77. Their barrels could be iffy in those days, but I got a good one--and by then had a chronograph, finding I could get right around 2700 fps and sub-inch accuracy with the old mil-surp H4831. Due to a divorce the Ruger was my only big game rifle for a few years, and I not only killed elk and deer with it, but my first black bear--and a pronghorn doe. I'd worked up two loads that shot to the same place at 100 yards, the other with 165-grain Nosler Solid Base softpoints and IMR4350. I used the 200-grain load when hunting where bigger game might be encountered, and the 165 for deer and antelope in eastern Montana. The only way to tell the two loads apart was the brass: The 200s went into Winchester cases, and the 165s in Remingtons. After marrying Eileen she decided to start hunting, and her first hunt was after pronghorn south of Fort Peck Reservoir in northeastern Montana. We couldn't afford another rifle, but luckily nobody in the family was using the .257 Roberts Remington 722 that had belonged to my paternal grandmother, so I worked up a load for it with 100 Partitions (which turned out to be the first big game handload I'd tried to that point that would average five shots, not three, in an inch). We'd drawn both either-sex and a doe-fawn tags, and the first day happened on a herd without a big buck. Made a stalk and crawled across the top of a ridge within about 250 yards. Eileen got buck fever bad, and couldn't hold on the biggest doe. I eventually asked if I could shoot it, and she said yes--so I did. It went about 50 yards and keeled over. I picked up the brass and found it was a Winchester case! The 200 worked just as well on that antelope as it had on bear, whitetails, mule deer and elk--and shot up less meat than any bullet I ever used until monolithics appeared. My primary .30-06 these days is a New Ultra Light Arms Model 24 acquired in 1997. Have used it on more big game animals than any of my other rifles since, partly because it went on many trips to various places around the world. Have used a bunch of different loads, but one of them I still use some is the 200 Partition and 59.0 grains of H4831SC. It will put three in around the magic half-inch at right around 2680 fps, and because of the relatively high BC of the bullet (around .500 G1, which was confirmed by Bryan Litz in his book), it shoots just as flat as most 180 softpoint spitzers, yet drifts less in the wind. (Have also used 168 and 185 Berger Hunting VLDs considerably in the same rifle, and of course they're better ballistically, but don't penetrate nearly as well....) If for some odd reason I had to limit myself to one rifle and load for all my big game hunting for the rest of my life (am not planning to do any more Cape buffalo hunting) the NULA and the 200 Partition would be on a very short list.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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That's funny. I run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Cores in four different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, a Winchester M70 and three Ruger #1s, two "S" models and a "B" model. The worst of the bunch is one of the "S" model #1s and it's still 3/4" groups on average. The "B" model is usually good for a half inch or less as is the other "S" models. I've never had a problem getting accurate loads with the Speer bullets I've used.
Paul B. How about the terminal performance of that 200 gr Speer Hot Cor? Any reports of tough (on the bullet) shots at short range? I used the 200 gr. Spitzer HorCor on two animals. The first was a Waterbuck which is a reasonably large plains game animal well known for being tough to eat and tough to take down. First hit was broadside behind the shoulder and he went maybe 50 yards and laid down. Waited 30 minutes for his head to drop but he kept staring at us. So I moved up on him for a finisher and he jumped up and took off giving me a quartering away shot that hit him behind the shoulder but high enough to hit the spine and he dropped. This was from a 300 Win Mag and a very top load of IMR 7828. 2900fps maybe. The first bullet exited and did enough damage that I am really amazed the Waterbuck got up at all! The second went down around 15 inches of spine and then out the other side where it went under the hide halfway up the neck and was in one piece though worse for wear. The other animal was a big cow elk, she was hit right behind the shoulder, ran 50 yards and was done. Lots of damage and the bullet was found perfectly expanded under the hide on the far side, same rifle and load. So for the two times I used it all was good. Nowadays I use the 200 gr. Partition if I need a heavy 30 caliber bullet.
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That's funny. I run the 200 gr. Speer Hot Cores in four different .300 Win. Mag. rifles, a Winchester M70 and three Ruger #1s, two "S" models and a "B" model. The worst of the bunch is one of the "S" model #1s and it's still 3/4" groups on average. The "B" model is usually good for a half inch or less as is the other "S" models. I've never had a problem getting accurate loads with the Speer bullets I've used.
Paul B. How about the terminal performance of that 200 gr Speer Hot Cor? Any reports of tough (on the bullet) shots at short range? I only used that load one time on a cow elk. Shot was the longest I ever took but the elk died. The bullet was not recovered. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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Thanks for the come-back.
OK. That's kind of how I figured it.
As you know, hunting-wise, I'm a bit of a shut-in. Folically Challenged dragged me down to Georgia for a boar hunt this past Fall, and it was the first time I'd hunted off the property since late 2001.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I understand! (Am a bit of a shut-in myself these days, as a lot of us are...)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Mule Deer
"Have used a bunch of different loads, but one of them I still use some is the 200 Partition and 59.0 grains of H4831SC. It will put three in around the magic half-inch at right around 2680 fps, and because of the relatively high BC of the bullet (around .500 G1, which was confirmed by Bryan Litz in his book), it shoots just as flat as most 180 softpoint spitzers, yet drifts less in the wind. "
In the Nosler No. 7 reloading manual for the 30-06 and a 190 grain bullet the maximum load for H4831 is 57 grains at 2613 feet per second. Does H4831SC allow for an extra 2 grains of power? I can not find any data for H4831SC for a 200 or a 190 grain bullet in manual no 7. I looked up the data on H4831SC on Alliant Power's web site and they is no information on this power for 190 or 200 grain bullets.
My 30-06 is a Remington 700 that has been rebuilt by Bull Mountain Rifle Company in Billings, Montana by Randy Melvin. The chamber is very tight and the barrel is stamped 30-06 Match. I am very cautious because in the past I have had sticky bolts with factory Remington 30-06.
Should 59 grains of H4831SC be a safe load. Is this your data which I trust or is it a published load.
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Campfire Kahuna
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If you check Hodgdon's on-line data, you'll find 59.0 grains of H4831 listed as max for the 200 AccuBond, though since it doesn't have as much bearing surface as the Partition, Hodgdon's velocity is around 100 fps slower.
H4831sc does fit a little easier under a 200-grain bullet than "long-cut" H4831, but I never had any trouble fitting up to 60 grains even when using the old military-surplus H4831--though it's definitely a compressed load.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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My 30/06 barrel is cut with a tight reamer and throated to accept a 200 Match King seated to just above the base of the neck. I suspect I would have been able to go a little hotter but accuracy is good and velocity is high enough.
Another '06, a BRNO ZKK with a 24 inch barrel, had along, funnel shaped throat. In it, I loaded 58 of the old Hodgdons 205 with Speer 200's and got right at 2700. Very accurate. GD
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30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....
Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" .
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
"Strive to be underestimated."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....
Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" . Wtf are you bringing up an old thread to try to disprove everyone here that said they can get 2700fps with a 200gr pill and a 22" barrel? For fuggs sake.. Out of the whole thread, this is the best quote:
If for some odd reason I had to limit myself to one rifle and load for all my big game hunting for the rest of my life (am not planning to do any more Cape buffalo hunting) the NULA and the 200 Partition would be on a very short list.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Mule Deer
"Have used a bunch of different loads, but one of them I still use some is the 200 Partition and 59.0 grains of H4831SC. It will put three in around the magic half-inch at right around 2680 fps, and because of the relatively high BC of the bullet (around .500 G1, which was confirmed by Bryan Litz in his book), it shoots just as flat as most 180 softpoint spitzers, yet drifts less in the wind. "
In the Nosler No. 7 reloading manual for the 30-06 and a 190 grain bullet the maximum load for H4831 is 57 grains at 2613 feet per second. Does H4831SC allow for an extra 2 grains of power? I can not find any data for H4831SC for a 200 or a 190 grain bullet in manual no 7. I looked up the data on H4831SC on Alliant Power's web site and they is no information on this power for 190 or 200 grain bullets.
My 30-06 is a Remington 700 that has been rebuilt by Bull Mountain Rifle Company in Billings, Montana by Randy Melvin. The chamber is very tight and the barrel is stamped 30-06 Match. I am very cautious because in the past I have had sticky bolts with factory Remington 30-06.
Should 59 grains of H4831SC be a safe load. Is this your data which I trust or is it a published load. If it were me, I'd start low and work up. Odds are it'll be OK but based on my experience with a custom Mauser in 7x57 with a chamber like yours. Surprises happen. In my case, no pun intended, I cannot even come close to levels I can easily reach in two other rifles chambered to the same round. As you probably know, a fired case with show a slight pressure ridge near the web of the shell, usually larger on one side than the other. On my Mauser there is no visible ridge. It's only detectable using a micrometer. I can't even come close to some of the watered down publish max loads for the 7x57. Paul B.
Last edited by PJGunner; 09/08/21.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....
Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" . Wtf are you bringing up an old thread to try to disprove everyone here that said they can get 2700 fps with a 200gr pill and a 22" barrel? Not every 30-06 with 22" barrel ( or even 24" ) attained 2700 fps in this thread. A longer barrel would get a more complete burn, and yield higher velocities-making it easier to reach 2700 fps with 200 grain jacketed bullets. Read German Salazar's posts about his experiences with match shooting with his 30-06 (300 - 1000 yards, with 1-11" twist, 4 -groove barrel). Very interesting. He finds 28" barrels in 30-06 with 200-215 grain bullets as optimum for 2700+ fps MV. I am not saying 2700 fps/200 grains can't be done with a 22-24" tube, but a 26" barrel in 30-06 shooting 200 grainers makes it more attainable with more powder options. A 26" 30-06 barrel makes for a heck of platform for the 30-06 and heavy bullets, giving more complete burn rate in a reasonable barrel length. That's my point.
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
"Strive to be underestimated."
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30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....
Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" . Wtf are you bringing up an old thread to try to disprove everyone here that said they can get 2700fps with a 200gr pill and a 22" barrel? Not every 30-06 with 22" barrel ( or even 24" ) attained 2700 fps in this thread. A longer barrel would get a more complete burn, and yield higher velocities-making it easier to reach 2700 fps with 200 grain jacketed bullets. Read Salazar's posts about his experiences with match shooting with his 30-06 (300 - 1000 yards). Very interesting. He finds 28" barrels in 30-06 with 200-215 grain bullets as optimum for 2700+ fps MV. I am not saying 2700 fps/200 grains can't be done with a 22-24" tube, but a 26" barrel in 30-06 shooting 200 trainers makes it more attainable with more powder options. I like this. It's an effective way to get the bullet moving. Back before they chopped barrels down, and had fewer powders, this was an easy way to get a projectile flying faster. ![[Linked Image from ]]( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/Underdog_%28animated_TV_series%29.jpg/250px-Underdog_%28animated_TV_series%29.jpg) Not bird, not plane, nor even frog.
Just little old me, Underdog!
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
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[quote=buttstock]30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....
Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" . Wtf are you bringing up an old thread to try to disprove everyone here that said they can get 2700fps with a 200gr pill and a 22" barrel? For fuggs sake.. [/quite] ——————————- Guys, I’m NOT being rude honestly. It doesn’t bother me 1 bit. BSA pointed out that this is an OLD thread. Just so y’all know. Otherwise carry on. No problem from me Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 09/10/21.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Kahuna
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buttstock,
You have several misconceptions about this subject:
1) There are at least a couple of pressure-tested sources of data that show if not EXACTLY 2700 fps for 200-grain bullets in the .30-06 from the standard SAAMI 24" test-barrel, but within around 10-15 fps.
2) These data sources adhere to the long-time standard 60,000 PSI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for the .30-06, which is somewhat lower than similar cartridges, due to the older rifles chambered for the .30-06. As one example, the .270 (the .30-06 necked down) has a MAP of 65,000 PSI--and there's no reason a modern .30-06 would explode at 65,000. According to the basic rules of interior ballistics, another 5000 PSI would add around 100 fps.
3) No, a longer barrel does NOT result in a "more complete burn" of modern powders. You're apparently a victim of long-time myths/assumptions. Modern powders essentially burn as much as they're going to within 2-3 inches in front of the chamber. The added velocity from a longer barrel is a result of the powder gas continuing to expand down the bore.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Mule Deer,
I appreciate the info about the higher MAP pressure issue/level ( 65,000 vs 60,000) which translates to higher velocity for the 30-06, including shorter barrels (both 22 and 24 inch mentioned in this thread). Got it.
I used the wrong term "complete burn" for powder, but should have been "more gas expansion,". as you wrote. I guess I presumed they were the same ( or related close enough).
A longer 30-06 barrel (26" vs 24" or 22" ) simply offers the potential for higher MV, allowing more powder combinations to reach 2700 fps (or more) with a 200 grain bullet from a 30-06, and likely at equal or lower pressure (less than 65,000).
Two inches of extra barrel will add about 25 fps/inch? So figure at least an extra 50+ fps-for a slower burning powder with 26" (vs 24") , and over 100 fps comparing 26" vs 22" barrels. Nothing to sneeze at-even with a max load of Reloader 26 with 200 grain bullets. Makes the 30-06 approach early-loaded 300 mags.
I will stand by my original comment:
"30-06, 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps....Best way for those three things to come together is with a 26" barrel, not 22" .
----- with the exception that "BEST way..." could be replaced with something like "" Easiest way... ". or "highest odds to reach 2700 fps with different powders... "
I offered that comment as shooters in this thread experimented with many powders to get a certain MV (call it 2700 fps), and many combinations did NOT make 2700 fps in even 24" barrels. A longer barrel will just get you there (2700 fps...and maybe 2800+ fps) with less fuss and time ("easier"), and at lower pressure, with different powders. I wasn't trying to change the world with the comment, or refuting anyone's results, just offering option that was not mentioned (26" bbl) .
A 30-06 firing a 200 grain jacketed bullet at 2550 - 2600 fps is still a fine-performing load.
"Behavior accepted is behavior repeated."
"Strive to be underestimated."
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Don't worry about it, buttstock. I think everyone got your point. The last three rifles I got all featured 26 inch barrels. They are single shots, so even the extra few inches of barrel still makes the OAL shorter than a traditional bolt action. I always build bolt action rifles with 24 inch barrels. You know what they say. Everybody appreciates an extra few inches. None of these are 30-06s, but the middle rifle is a 30-303 with a 26 inch barrel. The rifle at the bottom has a 23.75 inch barrel. Be happy. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/rsVzKz2.jpg)
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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That’s hot on the heels of the 300 Magnums. Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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StaBall 6.5 is also worth a try.
I worked up to 56 gn with 200 gn Partitions for 2625 fps.
20 3/8" barrel
Winchester cases.
215 primers.
Cheers,
Walt
One unerring mark of the love of the truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. John Locke, 1690
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Shot my 23" brl 30-06 Saturday - 200 gr. Accubonds, Re 26, 2684 ft/sec measured 15 ft from the muzzle.
Stir on.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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People are up at night. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/VdBd7qD.jpg)
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People are up at night. I don’t have anything constructive to add to the thread. So in the spirit of the campfire, I will post something anyway. Pathfinder, Gotta love Mark Penrod’s work. I have a M70 classic stainless sitting around that I need to send to Mark. He likes rifles on the heavy side but they always shot.
Last edited by SWJ; 09/13/21. Reason: Errors
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RIght around 2690 from a 24" should be an accuracy node with RL16. You should get there in the low 50s in terms of charge weight depending on lot, case, primer, etc.
I'd rather have the temp stability of RL16 than the extra 50 ft/s and crazy pressure ramp up in the heat of RL26. But that's just me.
In terms of 200gr bullets the Terminal Ascent is exceptional. The Accubond might be a 2nd choice. The A-Frame has very good terminal performance but different load data and pretty high drag.
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RIght around 2690 from a 24" should be an accuracy node with RL16. You should get there in the low 50s in terms of charge weight depending on lot, case, primer, etc.
I'd rather have the temp stability of RL16 than the extra 50 ft/s and crazy pressure ramp up in the heat of RL26. But that's just me.
In terms of 200gr bullets the Terminal Ascent is exceptional. The Accubond might be a 2nd choice. The A-Frame has very good terminal performance but different load data and pretty high drag. RL 26 is very temperature stable. And since when do you find broad spectrum accuracy nodes?
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RL 26 is very temperature stable. And since when do you find broad spectrum accuracy nodes?
No it's not - it sort of temp stable in the cold, and utter garbage in the hot. The temp stable Alliant powders are AR-COMP, RL16 and RL23. As to accuracy nodes, they are a function of the physics of the load being used.
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The temp stable Alliant powders are AR-COMP, RL16 and RL23.
You forgot RL-15.5
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The temp stable Alliant powders are AR-COMP, RL16 and RL23.
You forgot RL-15.5 True enough. Wonder if any will ever become available?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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People are up at night. That rifle is ready. Another great shooting 06
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Shot my 23" brl 30-06 Saturday - 200 gr. Accubonds, Re 26, 2684 ft/sec measured 15 ft from the muzzle.
Stir on. I have a 22" Featherweight and use the 212 ELD's at a 2700 MV. Accuracy is very good with Staball and so far a bull elks front legs couldn't totally tear it apart. It shoots so well I don't plan to mess with that load. It is one of the combo's that really makes me wonder why I have much else. Hit's very hard, bullet is never pushed beyond it's limits and the BC carries FPS enough to expand it further than I'd try shooting.
Semper Fi
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I have evidently been holding the 30-06 back. I had a 742 that only functioned with slow powder and 220 grain bullets - I can guess why. With the other 30-06's I've, for some reason, stopped at a maximum mass of 180 grain - CL's, IL's, Hot Cores. and Partitions. They all worked well on deer and antelope. After reading this thread and comparing drop to 350 yards (about my maximum range) I'm thinking I'll be testing loads in a 30-06 with 200 grain partitions with plans on taking that load out this fall for a Wyoming cow elk and Wyoming buck.
As it turns out both my 300 Weatherby and my 300 Win Mag the best loads I've tested so far are with RE 26 and 200 grain Nosler Partitions, maybe it will work that way with the '06 or maybe it will be with 4831sc?
Last edited by Bugger; 09/16/21.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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You might try 4831SC as well. I've gotten 2700 with it in 22" barrels when using 200 Partitions and Hodgdon's data, and in my present "main" .30-06 it's more accurate than RL-26.
While 26 is reasonably temperature-resistant, it wasn't designed to be like RL-16 and RL-23, and in my testing it hasn't been quite a consistent as the 16 and 23, or the Hodgdon Extremes, though it beats the hell out of some other powders.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Time to open up the Gack.
(After realizing I may of had a fetish with the 30-06 cartridge, I sold a half dozen, mostly Springfields. I now can brag that I have less than a dozen '06's - fetish resolved!)
Last edited by Bugger; 09/16/21.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Regular
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You might try 4831SC as well. I've gotten 2700 with it in 22" barrels when using 200 Partitions and Hodgdon's data, and in my present "main" .30-06 it's more accurate than RL-26.
While 26 is reasonably temperature-resistant, it wasn't designed to be like RL-16 and RL-23, and in my testing it hasn't been quite a consistent as the 16 and 23, or the Hodgdon Extremes, though it beats the hell out of some other powders. Mr. Barsness.... H4831sc has become unobtanium for me. RL-26 is hard to come by as well. I came across some RL-23 a few months back and would like to hear your experience with it. What kind of results did you get with it and 200 and/or 180 grainers in 30-06? Or overall what have you found with RL-23? How about Hunter and 200grainers in 30-06.....I know you like 180's in 30-06 but what about 200 grainers?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not JB, but just to say I'm replacing my RL-22 with RL-23, not getting any more RL-22. From what I've seen and read, RL-23 is about a sub for RL-22 and has better temp stability properties.
I also have a big jug of MRP and use it a good bit. It's my fav Swede powder.
I love these older threads, especially reading BobinNH posts. Really miss that guy.
DF
Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 09/16/21.
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Campfire Ranger
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I love these older threads, especially reading BobinNH posts. Really miss that guy.
DF
You aren't kidding DF.
Semper Fi
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I love these older threads, especially reading BobinNH posts. Really miss that guy.
DF
You aren't kidding DF. Bob was an awesome person. I miss him too!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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So, I loaded up some 200 NPT and JB's first load listed in Gack. Three shots were touching. But by then I was out of ammo, trying to get my old Leupold sighted in. Try again later. But I'm running low and 200 grain Partitons. Off to the web to search for more.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Ranger
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Cabela’s has them if you can’t find them elsewhere.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Cabela’s has them if you can’t find them elsewhere. I can't imagine the price tag on those sob's. The last ones I bought from SPS were damn reasonable. Back when they had good prices. I'm talking $13.45/bag of 50 and that was only 5 years ago. Now they are even gouging the fugg out of us. However, they are still the best game in town with prices at $29.95/bag of 50. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/OHS2XU1.jpg) I only bought 500 back then. Now I wished I would have bought a 1,000!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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200 grain Partitions are a great big game bullet.
They sure fly well in my 30-06.
I could hunt lots of places with that bullet, and never feel under gunned with them loaded in my 30-06.
Randy
NRA
Patriot Life Benefactor
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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200 grain Partitions are a great big game bullet.
They sure fly well in my 30-06.
I could hunt lots of places with that bullet, and never feel under gunned with them loaded in my 30-06. I first discovered that great flight over 25 years ago shooting 3-4-500 yard steel with my classic super-grade 300 win, 200gr partitions leaving at 3K were/are a thing of beauty, couldn't believe the consistent accuracy i got that first load workup day, that bullet went on to prove it's one of the very best bullets ever developed for hunting, even at 2700 from the old '06 using RL-22, H-4831 SC etc, the bullet, cartridge are simply stoners, put it where it needs to go, then get your jacket off and sleeves rolled up.
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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200 grain Partitions are a great big game bullet.
They sure fly well in my 30-06.
I could hunt lots of places with that bullet, and never feel under gunned with them loaded in my 30-06. I first discovered that great flight over 25 years ago shooting 3-4-500 yard steel with my classic super-grade 300 win, 200gr partitions leaving at 3K were/are a thing of beauty, couldn't believe the consistent accuracy i got that first load workup day, that bullet went on to prove it's one of the very best bullets ever developed for hunting, even at 2700 from the old '06 using RL-22, H-4831 SC etc, the bullet, cartridge are simply stoners, put it where it needs to go, then get your jacket off and sleeves rolled up. Great posts. I see you guys BTDT. Having had the same exact experience with both the 300wm and 30-06. I was always content with 2900 in the 300wm, but that was the sweet spot for my rifle with good ol IMR4350, way back in the day.. Ran 68 grains of the stuff. Easy to remember because that's what I ran in my 338wm to launch 250gr Sierra GK's. Good stuff guys...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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200 grain Partitions are a great big game bullet.
They sure fly well in my 30-06.
I could hunt lots of places with that bullet, and never feel under gunned with them loaded in my 30-06. I first discovered that great flight over 25 years ago shooting 3-4-500 yard steel with my classic super-grade 300 win, 200gr partitions leaving at 3K were/are a thing of beauty, couldn't believe the consistent accuracy i got that first load workup day, that bullet went on to prove it's one of the very best bullets ever developed for hunting, even at 2700 from the old '06 using RL-22, H-4831 SC etc, the bullet, cartridge are simply stoners, put it where it needs to go, then get your jacket off and sleeves rolled up. Wasn’t really a big fan of the 06 for a long time. Dad used one all over and it was just so danged medium at everything. Well, fast forward 30 years, I found a little P64 Featherweight, put it into a McMillan and messed around. Well, as it turns out it shoots those 212 ELDs real well at 2700 and change. I said hmmmm, I’ll take it elk hunting. Well sure as heck it worked, just like the 338, 300’s 7’s, etc. punched holes through both front legs and he somersaulted down the mountain. Then I got to thinking if the 06 does than in an 8lb rifle why do I need these heavies. That cost me money to lighten my Mashburn up. So yup, I could see how any of those good 200+ grain bullets scooted out around 2700 could be good and maybe better than a bunch of other things. I made a joke with Dober, I call the 30-06 with 212 ELD a 6.5 Creed with nuts…
Semper Fi
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Cabela’s has them if you can’t find them elsewhere. I can't imagine the price tag on those sob's. The last ones I bought from SPS were damn reasonable. Back when they had good prices. I'm talking $13.45/bag of 50 and that was only 5 years ago. Now they are even gouging the fugg out of us. However, they are still the best game in town with prices at $29.95/bag of 50. I only bought 500 back then. Now I wished I would have bought a 1,000!! $51 a box w/free shipping. SPS had them forever but appears to have cleared them out.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Cabela’s has them if you can’t find them elsewhere. Cabelas within 250 miles from here do not. 😢. BUT, I was looking in my stash of SPS bags of bullets and I found two bags of 200 grain partitions. 😊 The ‘06 with JB’s load is very accurate and I’ll be doing more testing. But now I’m looking at my 300 H&H - it hasn’t had a hunting trip yet…
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You guys about got me motivated to work up some ‘06 and 300 Win Mag loads with 200 NPT’s. I have the suspect powders, Fed 215’s.
DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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What a thread. Some of you are doomed. You won’t get that extra 50 FPS others say you need, or the only brand name that will guarantee success. What about cast 200s?
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What a thread. Some of you are doomed. You won’t get that extra 50 FPS others say you need, or the only brand name that will guarantee success. What about cast 200s? Maybe we need to start the thread again, but with the .303. Ha! DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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No. Start again with cast bullets. Or cup and core only, but just bullets that can be driven to 2800 fps or more safely from a 22 inch, gold plated barrel. They have to group 0.5 an inch or less at 100 yd., and double in size when they mushroom. Naturally, they must retain over 95% of their original weight. Shot offhand, at a running target, wearing camo pants, at night, from a moving truck. For the campfire, this is probably done regularly.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No. Start again with cast bullets. Or cup and core only, but just bullets that can be driven to 2800 fps or more safely from a 22 inch, gold plated barrel. They have to group 0.5 an inch or less at 100 yd., and double in size when they mushroom. Naturally, they must retain over 95% of their original weight. Shot offhand, at a running target, wearing camo pants, at night, from a moving truck. For the campfire, this is probably done regularly. Don’t ya know that’s no hill for a climber here on the Fire. DF
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Campfire Outfitter
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Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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. I came across some RL-23 a few months back and would like to hear your experience with it. What kind of results did you get with it and 200 and/or 180 grainers in 30-06? Or overall what have you found with RL-23?
How about Hunter and 200grainers in 30-06.....I know you like 180's in 30-06 but what about 200 grainers?
I tried working up some RL 23 and 200 partitions. I could not get enough of it in the case to get over 2,550 fps out of a 22" bbl. But it was accurate.
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I tried Re 23 as well. It is a good deal less dense then Re26.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I tried Re 23 as well. It is a good deal less dense then Re26. How does RL-23 density compare with RL-22 and MRP? DF
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Campfire Ranger
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I tried Re 23 as well. It is a good deal less dense then Re26. How does RL-23 density compare with RL-22 and MRP? DF I’d give you my opinion but the problem is 22 and 25 could be so different from 5lb jug to the next it just wouldn’t do anyone any good. I will say that most all of my old loads with 22 are within 1-2 grains with RL23, but I haven’t tried a pile of them yet. I kinda see it the same way most see IMR4350/4451. Close enough but still warrants a little chronograph work to match them.
Semper Fi
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I tried Re 23 as well. It is a good deal less dense then Re26. How does RL-23 density compare with RL-22 and MRP? DF I’d give you my opinion but the problem is 22 and 25 could be so different from 5lb jug to the next it just wouldn’t do anyone any good. I will say that most all of my old loads with 22 are within 1-2 grains with RL23, but I haven’t tried a pile of them yet. I kinda see it the same way most see IMR4350/4451. Close enough but still warrants a little chronograph work to match them. Thanks. I've been replacing RL-22 with RL-23, just haven't used it that much to compare the two. After hearing the density issue, it got me to thinking. MRP would probably be an OK sub for RL-22 without density issues, if in fact that's a problem with RL-23. MPR temp sensitivity may be no better the RL-22, it's reportedly more lot to lot consistent. And, I have a big jug of MRP. I also have a can of 4451, just never tried it. I was able to find a big jug of H-4350, so am in good supply for the time being. I prefer H-4350 to IMR-4350, although have used both to good effect. May have to work up some 4451 loads one of these days... A Loony's work is never done... DF
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A Loony's work is never done... DF 
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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A Loony's work is never done... DF That’s a fact!
Semper Fi
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My standard load with the 200 partition has been 59 gr of Norma MRP for the past 30 years. It runs a solid 2700 fps in my rifles. MRP and RL22 are blood brothers if not twins, right?
"Keep your mouth shut, work hard. Life is tough. Work through it.” -- Stetson Bennett, Quarterback, Georgia Bulldogs
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My standard load with the 200 partition has been 59 gr of Norma MRP for the past 30 years. It runs a solid 2700 fps in my rifles. MRP and RL22 are blood brothers if not twins, right? Correct (twins)
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Tracker
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My experiences with the 200 gr Partitions began back in the mid 1980's when Nosler switched over from screw machining the 375 bullets and they became difficult to find in Alaska. I had been using a M70 375 H&H for all my guiding and was well aware that it was the bullet that did all the killing.
I still had a lot of 200 gr Partitions for my 30-06 and discovered they penetrated every bit as well as the 300 gr Partitions from my 375, so I began using the 30-06.
Still do and was carrying it last week while guiding moose hunters .
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My experiences with the 200 gr Partitions began back in the mid 1980's when Nosler switched over from screw machining the 375 bullets and they became difficult to find in Alaska. I had been using a M70 375 H&H for all my guiding and was well aware that it was the bullet that did all the killing.
I still had a lot of 200 gr Partitions for my 30-06 and discovered they penetrated every bit as well as the 300 gr Partitions from my 375, so I began using the 30-06.
Still do and was carrying it last week while guiding moose hunters . What's your fav load, 200 gr. NPT's in the '06? DF
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Not 458Win, but 52.0 grains of IMR 4350 with a 200 gr. bullet of your choice shoots to the same zero as the old Federal Premium 200 grain load (and is slightly more accurate) in my rifles. I’m still using up a lifetime supply of Lake City Match brass, so you can likely up the load a grain for domestic, commercial brass. 57.0 grains of the surplus H4831 in the same brass also shoots to the same zero, so seems to duplicate the IMR 4350 load.
The old Federal 200 grain Premium ammo seemed to be loaded with a Sierra SPBT, a “GameKing” in today’s marketing parlance. It was good stuff, hated to see it go, but was glad I could duplicate it. I worked it up before I owned a chronograph, so can’t tell you how fast it is/isn’t going. Deer aren’t a fan.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks for that info. I have vintage H-4831 that’s still good. I also have MRP, RL-22, 23 and H-4350. Just need to put some loads together snd check’em out.
DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Something that needs to be said is the 200gr partition in the ol 06 works at sedate speeds as well. The load mentioned above by John0313 is a good load, but it is slow. That load will still penetrate an elk stem to stern. Don't underestimate it and don't think you need a load pushing 2700-2800 to do the trick either...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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For an old thread I did long ago using H 4831SC in the 06.... I got flamed but Nosler's Ballistician Mike, came on and stated you can't get enough 4831SC in an 06 case to exceed SAAMI specs.....
My load, which I have used in a Browning A Bolt. a 1903 Springfield, Remington 700, a couple of Model 70s, and a pair of 1917 Enfields..
62.5 grains of 4831SC, needs a crimp, I used a roll crimp....200 gr Sierra or Speer..
IIRC:
in a 22 inch barrel from the Browning.. 2850 fps...
24 inch Barrel Model 70s, 2900 fps
26 inch Enfield 1917 model, 2950 fps...
worked that up after I noticed what the pressure specs were for Book Published Loads with 4831.. and some one asked what was the most punch capable with an 06.
I tested that with both the 200 grainers and the 220 grainers...
if anyone tries it work it up from Load Manual specs
Max load with 4831/SC was 65 grains ( and definitely needed a crimp), and that was with a Hornady 190 SP....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Wow. I can’t touch that with surplus H4831 and GI brass. I think 58 grains was all I could stuff in a LC Match case with a 200 gr. NPT.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Wow. I can’t touch that with surplus H4831 and GI brass. I think 58 grains was all I could stuff in a LC Match case with a 200 gr. NPT. Never tried it with military brass.. just commercial brass.... hey did notice you're from Northern Va.. I like your 'occupied' addition.... That was home for me in my youth. I graduated West Springfield High School, back when NOVA was still part of the south. Left to go to college in New England and never went back..... too many damn people, and all from somewhere else or some other country... I miss the Virginia I grew up in, but its long gone nowadays.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Seafire
I know what you mean.
I MISS america that I grew up in,
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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I still had a lot of 200 gr Partitions for my 30-06 and discovered they penetrated every bit as well as the 300 gr Partitions from my 375, so I began using the 30-06.
I wish I had some 'way' or 'place' to store this for future ref. Thnx Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Wow. I can’t touch that with surplus H4831 and GI brass. I think 58 grains was all I could stuff in a LC Match case with a 200 gr. NPT. Something to try. I use a Long Drop Tube to load max capacity powder in some cases. 4831 and 7828 are 2 that I use that fills the 06, & 270 W cases. Might work for you. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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I still had a lot of 200 gr Partitions for my 30-06 and discovered they penetrated every bit as well as the 300 gr Partitions from my 375, so I began using the 30-06.
I wish I had some 'way' or 'place' to store this for future ref. I found a way to Save or Store info. I used an Old PM and C / P the info to MYSELF. I won't forget that PM, easy to remember. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Tracker
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Why not just cut and save to your documents folder?
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths.
"there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser"
"the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
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Campfire Outfitter
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What's your fav load, 200 gr. NPT's in the '06?
DF My standard load with the 200 partition has been 59 gr of Norma MRP for the past 30 years. It runs a solid 2700 fps in my rifles.
Last edited by SU35; 09/29/21.
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Not 458Win, but 52.0 grains of IMR 4350 with a 200 gr. bullet of your choice shoots to the same zero as the old Federal Premium 200 grain load (and is slightly more accurate) in my rifles. I’m still using up a lifetime supply of Lake City Match brass, so you can likely up the load a grain for domestic, commercial brass. 57.0 grains of the surplus H4831 in the same brass also shoots to the same zero, so seems to duplicate the IMR 4350 load.
The old Federal 200 grain Premium ammo seemed to be loaded with a Sierra SPBT, a “GameKing” in today’s marketing parlance. It was good stuff, hated to see it go, but was glad I could duplicate it. I worked it up before I owned a chronograph, so can’t tell you how fast it is/isn’t going. Deer aren’t a fan. I chronographed these loads today. As was noted, they aren’t fast: 52/IMR 4350/200 gr. Sierra yielded 2430 fps at the muzzle on my R8 The Federal 200 gr. factory load was going 2510 fps from the same rifle I didn’t have any of my H4831 loads, or 200 gr. NPT loads to try.
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Campfire Ranger
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BTT for $27/bag of 50 at SPS.
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H4831 produced good groups ad adequate velocity from a 22" Douglas barrel on a Springfield as long as velocity was kept relatively low.
This rifle does not group well with ant bullet when maximum loads are used.
200 NP - 60.5 gn H4831 - 2519 fps - 1.1" group
200 AB - 60 gn - H4831 - 2483 fps - 1.1" group
200 AB - 61 gn - H4831 - 2610 fps - 2.5" group
A 20 3/8" bbl SAKO does very well with 200 NP
60 gn - N560 - 2603 fps - 210 primer
56 gn - StaBall 6.5 - 2624 fps - 215 primer
60 gn - R26 - 2615 fps - 215 primer
Calculating from published 270 data using The Rules (thanks JB) about 2600 fps is all one can reasonably expect from a 20" bbl without exceeding 65,000 psi.
Cheers,
Walt
One unerring mark of the love of the truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. John Locke, 1690
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I've yet to use the 200gr Nosler Partition in a 30-06 but I'm hopeful to do so in the woods of Central and North idaho. Being that these are very expensive I'm also open to trying the Hornady 220 roundnose as they are far more economical and they should be able to reach 300yds. With the lower velocity they may perform quite well. Yet to try it but I'm getting ready as bear season will be coming up and I bought 2 boxes of those 220gr round nose. Old school I suppose
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Campfire Outfitter
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I loaded some 200s over H4831SC this morning. 59 grains was crunching pretty good. I don't think I can go any higher.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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I grew up hunting South Texas and used 2 model 70 rifles in '06. I initially started with 165gr Sierras, but later switched to 200gr Gamekings as my standard load. It did a great job of stopping game instantly which is what we liked to if you're in thick cactus. Used it on coyotes, javelina, deer and one large Russian boar at around 300 yds. Standard load was 58.0grs RL-22 for many years. It was the most accurate load that rifle shot. Later when RL-22 couldn't be found I worked up to 55.5grs H4350 for around 2670fps from a 22" barrel. Never did get 2700fps even though I tried. A pile of dead critters didn't know any difference. I will always appreciate the power of a 200gr bullet from the grand '06.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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That tends to depend on brass thickness, along with seating depth in a particular rifle. Have used different brands of .30-06 brass that got basically the same velocity/accuracy with 58 and 60 grains.
One way to reduce the amount of powder needed to achieve the same velocity is to use magnum primers. They'll often result in requiring 1-2 fewer grains.
Have also not found "crunching" to affect ballistic performance much, unless it also results in pushing the bullet forward a day or week or month after seating. Have tested 286-grain 9.3x62 handloads with heavily compressed Big Game powder years after they were loaded, and so far they've always resulted in the same basic velocity and accuracy.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I'm going to try it but dang!
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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59.0 grains H4831SC. Fed 210, 200 grain Accubond, 2731 avg. Barrel is 25 ish
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Accuracy? Velocity variation? Any oddities due to "crunching"?
I suspect that might kill a big game animal.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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This one and the 150gr 270 thread need sticky
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Have a box of those 200 grain Partitions & a big jug of Reloder 23. You guys have me itching to work up a dark timber load
Only problem is I don't have a current 30 06 in the house!
41
We deal in lead, friend.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Have a box of those 200 grain Partitions & a big jug of Reloder 23. You guys have me itching to work up a dark timber load
Only problem is I don't have a current 30 06 in the house!
41 What?!?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Have a box of those 200 grain Partitions & a big jug of Reloder 23. You guys have me itching to work up a dark timber load
Only problem is I don't have a current 30 06 in the house!
41 What?!? OMG. That is un American!!
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Have a box of those 200 grain Partitions & a big jug of Reloder 23. You guys have me itching to work up a dark timber load
Only problem is I don't have a current 30 06 in the house!
41 What?!? How can that be??!!!
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Regular
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I loaded some 200s over H4831SC this morning. 59 grains was crunching pretty good. I don't think I can go any higher. What brand case we’re you using? Don’t have anything to add… just curious.
Semper Fi
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